Nothing Goofy about Disney park moves

BigTxEars

Well-Known Member
Please, before you write further about WDW as a business, read this.

It will tell you a little bit about the history of WDW as a business. You should find it informative.

As a business, WDW is being badly mismanaged right now and gross margins are down.

Current management is attempting to "fix" this by raising prices and cutting quality.

That's not a "fix". That's the problem.

I know the history no link needed but thanks. WDW was built to make money, for crying out loud Mickey came about because of a MONEY concerning with Oswald....so the very foundation of Disney itself and thus WDW started over a debate over money.

Your opinion is as valid as mine, that is to say neither of us (or anyone else on here for that matter)have any ideal how to run the number one tourist destination in the world. You and others can sit back and post whatever opinions you want, but the men and women making the business calls at WDW have info you do not when they make those calls. Unless you have some detailed insight into the balance sheets at WDW you really have no ideal what cuts are needed to balance cost or how increased revenue is being used. It's all conjecture presented as fact by some on here. Some on here seem to have no ideal on how to even run a basic business, much less one as large and complex as WDW.
One thing that CAN'T be undone: all the growth that has happened BECAUSE of Harry Potter. Transformers, Springfield, Despicable Me, the Wet and Wild acquisition, land acquisition, and all of the upcoming expansions and growth owe their promptness and speed to Harry Potter.
And I dunno what stores you walk into, but there is still PLENTY of Potter merch lining the shelves, and more will come when they release Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them, which takes place in the Harry Potter universe.

I stay on this site in hopes that I'll find some info that will spark some hope for me. Hope that the parks will finally live up to their reputation.
Just because Disney is seeing a lot of guests doesn't mean that they're being treated right. Have you heard of "The Rizzo Effect"?
And trust me, being a CM sucks. Been there, done that, it's not a good life. They have no trouble filling positions, though, because of the College Program/slave labor, which is why you rarely see a frontline CM with more than a year experience. Just look at their nametags next time; if it says a college instead of a city, that's someone making dirt, living in an overpriced apartment with five other people, and keeping Disney from having to actually HIRE someone. When you're working for minimum wage, you don't want to spend your lunch break buying a $7 meal from some third-party company that Disney sells you out to. I could go on, but that's for another thread.


Walk into Wal-Mart, Target or Kmart tomorrow and tell me how much Potter merchandise you find outside of the DVDs. Check toys, bedding, clothing, and kids plates and cups for starters. Tell me how much Potter you find, then how much Star Wars. I already know the answer but it appears you do not. I much prefer Potter over Star Wars myself, not a huge SW fans at all, but it's the better property longterm. I would much prefer to see new Potter media released than SW but that is not what is going to happen.

Your bitter, that is as apparent as the sun in the noon sky in Arizona. If you want to spend you time on a forum based a a place you all but hate now then go ahead. You are not going to find a spark of anything with your mindset, you are not really looking IMO, just waiting around for yet one more chance to post something negative.

Poor CMs, asked for a job and got it. How evil of Disney. Slave labor? Now WDW is nothing more than a plantation in your mind? Amazing, what exactly is so slave like about working at WDW? Please I just gotta hear this......
 

maxairmike

Well-Known Member
Walk into Wal-Mart, Target or Kmart tomorrow and tell me how much Potter merchandise you find outside of the DVDs. Check toys, bedding, clothing, and kids plates and cups for starters. Tell me how much Potter you find, then how much Star Wars. I already know the answer but it appears you do not. I much prefer Potter over Star Wars myself, not a huge SW fans at all, but it's the better property longterm. I would much prefer to see new Potter media released than SW but that is not what is going to happen.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe there are reasons beyond "Potter isn't popular" (or whatever you're claiming) that are behind things like mass produced action figures and such on supermarket shelves? The Potter LEGO sets sell very well, but they're pretty much the only "mass-market" Potter merch I've seen. We all know how particular Rowling is about her story and the world it takes place in, and mass-market crap toys seem to be exactly the kind of thing she doesn't want, and she certainly hasn't been hurting for money despite there being little to none of it. Also, think about the merch sold in the parks, and how some or most of those items might do in a common supermarket. Now, I actually see a lot of Potter merch in varying forms in smaller shops like Hot Topic, but mostly shirts with phrases or other articles of clothing, pretty much no "cheap" toys. The only place you can find anything like a "cheap toy" is Universal. Seems like a great way to charge a higher price and maybe take a slightly higher royalty payment as a result.

Judging something by the merchandise available in Walmart/Target/Kmart isn't exactly a great way to go about it.
 

BigTxEars

Well-Known Member
Yep that Disney college program is just horrible:

From Glassdoor.com, reviewed by real people who worked at WDW or DL in the college program.

"4.1 out of 5 (59 reviews)"

"85%of employees recommend this company to a friend"



And from Indeed.com, 18 more reviews from college program CMs

"4.5 out of 5 stars overall."


So I guess not everyone thinks it's slave labor.....well at least not the 85%+ listed above.
 

BigTxEars

Well-Known Member
Since you seem to consider yourself an expert of the history of WDW as a business, does that mean you've read Disney's 10K and 10Q filings and listened to their earning calls?

When did I say I was a expert, your the one passing judgement on current management on here not me. I said that you nor I (or anyone else) has the information the managament has when they make business judgements. What exactly is your management experience? Just curious as to why you think you have such insight.


When paying bodies thru the gate, in the beds and in the restaurants seats is used to judge business success (as it is in any resort) then yeah WDW is doing pretty well.
 

BigTxEars

Well-Known Member
"Judging something by the merchandise available in Walmart/Target/Kmart isn't exactly a great way to go about it."


It is a way to tell of the long term staying power of a property and it's potential to draw in new fans to keep it relevant. Power Rangers and Teletubbies are two great examples of powerhouse licenses that faded. They were everywhere in the retail market at one point, on TV and in the movies. The first place that showed their slipping out of relevancey was in mass retailers when their merchandise stopped selling as was not carried. When the Potter movies were hot there was a ton of merchandise in the mass retailers. Toys (well beyond Lego), clothing, bedding, plates, video games, board games, drapes etc, playing cards....it was huge. It was a cash cow for J.K., she does indeed tightly control the rights but she was cashing in when she could then.

I never said Potter was not popular now, I said who knows wheres it will be in 10 years. With little to no new storyline upcoming in Potter it could lose popularity. Star Wars has new media coming and a much more crazed fan base already so if I was betting I would bet on SW all day even though it really is does not mean much to me. I think Potter is a much richer world myself and prefer it.
 
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Polydweller

Well-Known Member
Oh great, it's you... :rolleyes:
How ironic that you accuse use of being led by an individual as opposed to our own findings. Maybe if you tried opening your eyes instead of hanging out on the bandwagon you'd learn a thing or two.
I really have to ask, how many multimillion dollar theme parks have you run? If you have run some, then you are fully qualified to make all of your statements. Otherwise, they are not statements but your opinions. You are fully welcome to have them but just because someone has an opinion doesn't make the opinion right. All the opinions are equally valid because they are just opinions. None of us have the facts that lead to the various decisions so we are all just having opinions.

Me, I've been going to Disney parks since 1957. I can see the issues that are there now but also saw the problems that existed when Walt was still running DL. He made lots of mistakes at DL and there were maintenance problems and issues, rides that had to be removed due poor design and concept and, well really everything people complain about today. You should have been around to see the anger about the ticket books, a lot like the complaints for FP+. Nothing new really to have problems now.
 

jlsHouston

Well-Known Member
Star Wars isn't the answer? The most successful movie series in history will drive droves of visitors to the parks in a way that Harry Potter never could. You will have 3 full generations of people that will fill a Star Wars land where Potters Field will be passe in 10 years. Of course, that is just one man's opinion.

I agree about the Star Wars part. Harry Potter will never ever be passe. I still pull my books out and read the stories over and over.
 

jlsHouston

Well-Known Member
Did you ever stop to think that maybe there are reasons beyond "Potter isn't popular" (or whatever you're claiming) that are behind things like mass produced action figures and such on supermarket shelves? The Potter LEGO sets sell very well, but they're pretty much the only "mass-market" Potter merch I've seen. We all know how particular Rowling is about her story and the world it takes place in, and mass-market crap toys seem to be exactly the kind of thing she doesn't want, and she certainly hasn't been hurting for money despite there being little to none of it. Also, think about the merch sold in the parks, and how some or most of those items might do in a common supermarket. Now, I actually see a lot of Potter merch in varying forms in smaller shops like Hot Topic, but mostly shirts with phrases or other articles of clothing, pretty much no "cheap" toys. The only place you can find anything like a "cheap toy" is Universal. Seems like a great way to charge a higher price and maybe take a slightly higher royalty payment as a result.

Judging something by the merchandise available in Walmart/Target/Kmart isn't exactly a great way to go about it.
Thank you. And just because TWDC became over time a wildly successful Wall Street darling, and mass merchandising the brand being one of the ways it did so, does not take away from the value, the timelessness of characters in the Potter stories.
Plenty of stories were retold on screen by Disney that never resulted in mass merchandising and are still well known and loved today, for instance Mary Poppins.
 

BigTxEars

Well-Known Member
I agree about the Star Wars part. Harry Potter will never ever be passe. I still pull my books out and read the stories over and over.


Oh I agree it will never fully fade, nor should it. But will it keep the clout to justify what Universal is doing at their parks based around it? I am not 100% sure that in 10 years it will be such a draw.

I have the same feeling about Avatar as well, but I was never a fan of that movie.
 

NearTheEars

Well-Known Member
When did I say I was a expert, your the one passing judgement on current management on here not me. I said that you nor I (or anyone else) has the information the managament has when they make business judgements. What exactly is your management experience? Just curious as to why you think you have such insight.


When paying bodies thru the gate, in the beds and in the restaurants seats is used to judge business success (as it is in any resort) then yeah WDW is doing pretty well.

It's a losing battle if you are on the pro-disney side here my friend. Trust me.

I say it in most of my posts, but I'm still relatively new to the parks, so I'm not jaded yet. It's not stale for us yet. And I don't feel ripped off yet.

And @WDW1974 has said before that he isn't happy that I'm enjoying my time now. And that's OK, I don't take it personally.

I hope I don't end up feeling the way many here do. But they have been around much longer and are basing their criticism on years of park experience.

One thing I try to remember though, and was reminded of today at the American Adventure is:

"The golden age was never the present age." - Benjamin Franklin

I come here now just to catch up on news and rumors. I'll leave the debating to the rest of y'all.

Sincerely, a newb lifestyler pixie duster complacent passholder.
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
When did I say I was a expert, your the one passing judgement on current management on here not me. I said that you nor I (or anyone else) has the information the managament has when they make business judgements. But when paying bodies thru the gate, in the beds and in the restaurants seats is used to judge business success (as it is in any resort) then yeah WDW is doing pretty well.
Interesting.

Yet earlier you wrote:

"WDW was built with money to earn more money, that is the truth of it. As a resort destination business it ain't doing to bad, I mean being number one in the world and all. So the internet naysayers can go on and on about how poorly the parks are run these days but business is darn good there."

If you feel that "business is darn good there" but have never read their SEC filings or listened in on their calls with investment firms, what exactly are you basing your opinion on?

After all, "paying bodies thru the gate, in the beds and in the restaurants seats" isn't much to go on, is it?

WDW had "paying bodies thru the gate, in the beds and in the restaurants seats" immediately after 9/11 when vacation travel took a major hit. No one would claim that was a particularly good time for WDW. WDW actually closed hotels and laid off Cast Members that year due to the steep decline in business.

Oh wait, it actually was a pretty good year. P&R gross margin in the 12 months immediately following 9/11 was at 18.1%, significantly above 2013's 15.8%. Yet, when business was good the year before, it was at 22.6%.

WDW had 2.0 million empty hotel room nights in 2002. In 2013, they had 2.2 million. Wow, yet again, 2013 was worse than 2002.

It's great that you think they have ""paying bodies ... in the beds" but the numbers don't seem to support that, do they? I mean 2.2 million empty hotel rooms is a lot of empty rooms.

So, in a year when vacation travel collapsed, WDW performed much better financially than last year. When you look at it that way, WDW doesn't seem particularly healthy right now, does it? In fact, 15.8% is pretty bad historically for Disney. Oh and, by the way, 2.2 million empty rooms is a record.

You see, people on Wall Street who make their livings investing actually care about stuff like gross margins and occupancy rates. They don't spend a lot of time watching "paying bodies thru the gate, in the beds and in the restaurants seats".
 

BigTxEars

Well-Known Member
I really have to ask, how many multimillion dollar theme parks have you run? If you have run some, then you are fully qualified to make all of your statements. Otherwise, they are not statements but your opinions. You are fully welcome to have them but just because someone has an opinion doesn't make the opinion right. All the opinions are equally valid because they are just opinions. None of us have the facts that lead to the various decisions so we are all just having opinions.

Me, I've been going to Disney parks since 1957. I can see the issues that are there now but also saw the problems that existed when Walt was still running DL. He made lots of mistakes at DL and there were maintenance problems and issues, rides that had to be removed due poor design and concept and, well really everything people complain about today. You should have been around to see the anger about the ticket books, a lot like the complaints for FP+. Nothing new really to have problems now.

I can only imagine the confusion and anger daily at those booths at the multiple types of tickets needed at the parks then.
 

BigTxEars

Well-Known Member
"You see, people on Wall Street who make their livings investing actually care about stuff like gross margins and occupancy rates. They don't spend a lot of time watching "paying bodies thru the gate, in the beds and in the restaurants seats"."

Uh huh....well here is a number fer ya....

Disney stock price : $80.35
1 Year ago: $55.00
5 Years ago : $24.00

See a trend?

Yeah those Wall Street types are dumping Disney in droves huh? I mean it clearly shows those fools at Disney have no ideal how to run their business.....

Are you really trying to convince anyone one that WDW is hurting for customers?

Orlando Sentinel 02/05/14
"Burbank, Calif.-based Disney said it earned more than $1.8 billion during the first quarter of its fiscal year. That was up from a little less than $1.4 billion a year earlier. All of the company's major business segments — theme parks, television networks, movies, consumer products and digital media — posted double-digit growth."

"At Disney's theme-parks-and-resorts division, operating profit jumped 16 percent to $671 million. Revenue rose 6 percent to $3.6 billion."

Themepark Insider 02/06/14
"The Walt Disney Company reported this week that it's taking in more than a billion dollars a month from its theme parks, for more than $600 million in profits for the first three months of the company's current fiscal year. Disney reported record attendance at Walt Disney World, Tokyo Disney and Hong Kong Disneyland, offsetting attendance dips at Disneyland and Disneyland Paris."

Yeah just a billion a month form the parks.....no doubt they are about to have to close the
 
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BigTxEars

Well-Known Member
Record profits due to increased prices not attributed to growth in attendance. That kind of growth diminishes because eventually you have to slow down the price increases or your customers will look elsewhere.

"reported record attendance at Walt Disney World"

Unless Disney is lying to the Orlando newspaper then WDW did experience not only attendance growth but strong growth.

From the same article

"Disney said its U.S. hotel bookings for the current quarter are up 7 percent from the same point last year at prices that are 2 percent higher."

So they are booking more rooms at a higher price.....and they are selling more tickets at a higher price......call me crazy but sounds like somebody at WDW is doing something right.
 

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