Nothing coming in 2010?

[EPCOT Explorer]

If put in it's own "Miniland", separate from the jungle area, and yes, it would fit. Not that I want it, because I loath cartoons being the only things added to the parks, but it would fit.



The only thing mediocre about the pavilion is the exit. The hydrolators should have been kept.

Other than that it's the second best pavilion behind The Land.

Yet, you are fine with Nemo. Logical.

All your opinion, and frankly, seeing that mine is opinion too, I'm sick of bashing heads on this.


Nemo's take over of TLS sucks for me, and what I think should go into EPCOT based on it's original message and theme. Flat out is horrible. If you like something that I consider to be mediocre and exactly what is wrong with Disney, be my guest.

 

[RSoxNo1]

No....I can never accept them doing that. It makes the whole idea of EPCOT seem horribly generic of they drop the "Future" motif. For it's first 15 years of operation (roughly) FW was about the future, be it far flung or just around the corner. Dumbing that down to generic "Discovery" like any other kids's science museum really takes away something special about the park- it's integral theme. Keeping it focused on the future is something that is very unique, very cohesive and very Disney. The park is based off of Walt's philosophy for the future, in the first place. They don't need to change that and stray from that any further. They just need to return to it in a modern and new way.

Future World....It's time for it to get a total retheme.

See, I think Discoveryland has always been a more accurate description of Future World. I also think that the changes to The Seas Pavilion were better than the change from Horizons to Mission: SPACE, and Mission: SPACE (and to a lesser extent Living with the Land) are really the only Futuristic things in Future World right now. I've argued the opposite side of this, but the more I think of this, Ellen's Energy Adventure isn't particularly forward thinking any more. The Future theme is lost, and I'm not sure if it was every really cohesive - Discovery describes each pavilion far more accurately.

 

[SirGoofy]

Yet, you are fine with Nemo. Logical.

Believe me. I wanted to hate Nemo. I really did. But everything in that pavilion blew me away, and I just couldn't do it.:lol:

 

[jakeman]

And what purpose does HISTA have? Is it there to collect dust?

So we are swapping things with competing irrelevance?

That's moving forward for sure.

So by this logic, Buzz Lightyear in the space pavilionwould be okay right?
If it were the whole thing, like Nemo...No.

If M:S were a larger pavilion and had multiple attractions, and Buzz was one of them, and was entertaining and informing, sure.Hypocrisy and a refuse to acknowledge the multitude of other things in TLS because it doesn't support your case.

You realize that statements like this only support my assertion that Ecopt fans live in the past right?You are nit picking. This has relevance now. It's a good move to draw people in. If MJ were still alive, and they wanted to do this, I'd be against it. It has high nostalgic value, yes, but that's not the main reason for it's return.Yep. There it is. The real reason. Because it represents the "old" Disney. The Disney in which nothing could be done wrong because it simply occured more than 10 years ago.
There is nothing plausible about the future that Captain EO portrays. So again by this logic a Spaceballs attraction would fit also.
It's in the Imagination Pavilion. I think that's fit enough.So Spaceballs is a go then?

You're not explaining anything other than fan boy hypocrisy.

Nothing about EO fits the plaque.
You take my plaque comments to seriously for your own good, Jake! The Plaque is very important, don't get me wrong, but other aspects, like theme help.Nope, I've watched you systematically deconstruct the Seas with your reliance on the plaque. Now that it's applied to something that you want, its a guideline not a rule?

It celebrates no human achievment.
Well, with it's return, it's celebrating MJ.What in the spirit of Epcot did he achieve?

It is no wonder of enterprise.
George Lucas would like to argue that.As I'm sure Lassiter would argue with Nemo.

It does not present any realistic concepts of the future.
It's part of JII. The overall theme of the pavilion and the show itself covers that.Kind of like a fish...in the sea...

By the way...Does HISTA do that?I think the Imagination Institute ties them together (not arguing the quality, just the theme)

It does entertain. (I'll give you that)

It does not inspire.

It does not inform.

It does not demonstrate in any way man's ability to shape the world. It show's a futuristic fantasy about a man who does. We Are Here To Change The World, and all?:wave:So we are going to skip the main three that you blast the Seas with and go right to this one? :shrug:

Stop defending mediocrity. :wave:

Says someone who wants a 20+ year old film to come to a theme park that represents the future.

We need something new. Not a retreaded stopgap that will give TDO an exuse not to work on the Imagination pavilion for another 10 years.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

So...Jake, I take it you miss the post where I noted that I really don't think you'll change my opinion on this issue seeing that it is just that, opinion, and that I really don't care anymore? :wave:

But, if you want to badger me with your questions, by all means!

So by this logic, Buzz Lightyear in the space pavilionwould be okay right?
If it were the whole thing, like Nemo...No.

If M:S were a larger pavilion and had multiple attractions, and Buzz was one of them, and was entertaining and informing, sure.Hypocrisy and a refuse to acknowledge the multitude of other things in TLS because it doesn't support your case.Putting words in my mouth. I have said that other things in TSwNaF help the pavilion. Turtle Talk helps (though it could be better.) and the exhibits help too. My gripe is the fact that the headliner is Nemo. And that it's not Futuristic. At all. It's in Future World. How does it fit? No connection thematically.Subject wise, duh. Sea. Ocean. Great topic. But this way? There's no thematic link. That's the problem. And it's why I think it sucks! :ROFLOL:

You realize that statements like this only support my assertion that Ecopt fans live in the past right?You are nit picking. This has relevance now. It's a good move to draw people in. If MJ were still alive, and they wanted to do this, I'd be against it. It has high nostalgic value, yes, but that's not the main reason for it's return.Yep. There it is. The real reason. Because it represents the "old" Disney. The Disney in which nothing could be done wrong because it simply occured more than 10 years ago.Oh, no. Wrong. They did wrong then, trust me. They put up a circus in the middle of FW, they opened a Health and Life Pavilion that dated itself in 5 years. They never built a proper home for a Space Pavilion causing many problems down the road. They left WS untouched for too long, too. Again, words in my mouth. Ties to the old Disney are important. Your History always is. In light of recent events, this is a fine choice for Future World. But only then. Why don't you understand that? I'd be against this if MJ were still alive.
There is nothing plausible about the future that Captain EO portrays. So again by this logic a Spaceballs attraction would fit also.
It's in the Imagination Pavilion. I think that's fit enough.So Spaceballs is a go then?Sure. :lol: Just make sure the rest of the pavilion is Futuristic, that it informs, inspires, and entertains. You really miss the point, don't you? These little "cartoon" additions are fine....IF they work with EPCOT. Not take it over. As it is, Nemo doesn't interact with how EPCOT is supposed to convey information. And if you argue that he's really your guide, and SeaBase is there, and all, I'm not buying it. It's a huge excuse and apology for the mediocrity that is Nemo being shoehorned into TLS. I expect far more out of them than an easy fix. Yes, TLS was "broken" but it didn't need this much Nemo to fix it. Turtle Talk was more than enough. The rest could have been refreshed.

You're not explaining anything other than fan boy hypocrisy.

Nothing about EO fits the plaque.
You take my plaque comments to seriously for your own good, Jake! The Plaque is very important, don't get me wrong, but other aspects, like theme help.Nope, I've watched you systematically deconstruct the Seas with your reliance on the plaque. Now that it's applied to something that you want, its a guideline not a rule?
Again. In light of recent events, EO works. On it;s own? No. Never.
It celebrates no human achievment.
Well, with it's return, it's celebrating MJ.What in the spirit of Epcot did he achieve?

It is no wonder of enterprise.
George Lucas would like to argue that.As I'm sure Lassiter would argue with Nemo.

It does not present any realistic concepts of the future.
It's part of JII. The overall theme of the pavilion and the show itself covers that.Kind of like a fish...in the sea...I said this already. Show me some futurism. At least EO is that, though fantastical.

By the way...Does HISTA do that?I think the Imagination Institute ties them together (not arguing the quality, just the theme)No, and I dislike it, too.

It does entertain. (I'll give you that)

It does not inspire.

It does not inform.

It does not demonstrate in any way man's ability to shape the world. It show's a futuristic fantasy about a man who does. We Are Here To Change The World, and all?So we are going to skip the main three that you blast the Seas with and go right to this one?

We need something new. Not a retreaded stopgap that will give TDO an exuse not to work on the Imagination pavilion for another 10 years.

Agreed! Something new after they've showcased a piece of entertainment History.


And I bet EO doesn't even make it to EC. Thanks, Team Di$ney Orlando! :lol:

 

[_Scar]

Arabia fits in your Tropical Jungle/South Seas area how? Explain that.

I've spent more than enough time in that pavilion. 2007 and 2008 had me for about an hour in there. Those parts of it, sure. They inform. They are minutia, however, when you look at the ride, and what's missing. They have a purpose, but the theme is all wrong. There's no cohesion.


Stop defending mediocrity. :wave:

Adventureland, Tomorrowland, and Fantasyland all have no specific setting and is really purely driven by the spirit of adventure, innovation, and make-believe.


And how isn't it cohesive? It's all Nemo and his friends... :shrug:

And I bet EO doesn't even make it to EC. Thanks, Team Di$ney Orlando! :lol:

Why do you want mediocrity?

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

And how isn't it cohesive? It's all Nemo and his friends... :shrug:



Why do you want mediocrity?

How do Cartoon Fish fit in the Future?


I do not think that in these circumstances that EO is mediocre. If it were done randomly, then yes. It would be a horrid fit. But seeing that MJ has passed on and Disney is paying tribute in Disneyland, why not in EPCOT too? It's not for thematic reasons like Jake is trying to play off on. It's because TDO is too cheap to do something that changes things up.

Do ANY of you read my posts? Seriously. I said this. About 20 times. :lol:

No, we seem to like to take points and hound them for 300 posts at a time.

 

[WDW Vacationer]

I know I'm late in this,but whoever said FW should be Discvoveryland(or world)-that it rediculous! FW may not be futuristic now,but it certainly was at one point and still an be.

EO should not come either. Let's get a new 3D show in there. One that won't capitalize on a person's death.

Do you really want that in there for about 15 years?

 

[_Scar]

How do Cartoon Fish fit in the Future?


I do not think that in these circumstances that EO is mediocre. If it were done randomly, then yes. It would be a horrid fit. But seeing that MJ has passed on and Disney is paying tribute in Disneyland, why not in EPCOT too? It's not for thematic reasons like Jake is trying to play off on. It's because TDO is too cheap to do something that changes things up.

Do ANY of you read my posts? Seriously. I said this. About 20 times. :lol:

No, we seem to like to take points and hound them for 300 posts at a time.

To put it in a few words, the pavillion teaches about marine biology AND is a welcomed children's attraction in an other-wise not so kid-welcome park.

It's all about the money is Disneyland too, because their attendance is locally driven and they crave new things. Do you really think a family of 5 would make a special trip to Epcot for EO- considering the average family lives no where near WDW nah... but AP holders make up 60 percent of Disneyland's attendance- and if I had to guess I'd say they could go to Disneyland on short notice if need be.


Edit- I kinda like Discovery World- just don't use Verne. You learn a lot in FW by discovering new things... and future world makes you think of some space port of 220. But that's just my perspective.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

I know I'm late in this,but whoever said FW should be Discvoveryland(or world)-that it rediculous! FW may not be futuristic now,but it certainly was at one point and still an be.

EO should not come either. Let's get a new 3D show in there. One that won't capitalize on a person's death.

Do you really want that in there for about 15 years?

See, that's another thing. It's not going to be there for that long. That would be distasteful. Disneyland already has said it would be a limited engagement.


TDO would have to spend money on this to get it in and out. That's why it's not coming here. Because our execs don't want to bring things back for Historical value. Thematics are moot here.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

To put it in a few words, the pavillion teaches about marine biology AND is a welcomed children's attraction in an other-wise not so kid-welcome park.

It's all about the money is Disneyland too, because their attendance is locally driven and they crave new things. Do you really think a family of 5 would make a special trip to Epcot for EO- considering the average family lives no where near WDW nah... but AP holders make up 60 percent of Disneyland's attendance- and if I had to guess I'd say they could go to Disneyland on short notice if need be.

:zippit: Does it have to be? Granted SOME things have to be, but when you aim for that one demographic only, you fail. See little girls going to the FLWE M/G's. :lol:

And the Marine Bio is great and all, but Future. Again. Futuristic. Where is that?

We have a large AP base, too. And people would come here for it. Look at how quick people come down for these "special" D23 events.

 

[WDW Vacationer]

See, that's another thing. It's not going to be there for that long. That would be distasteful. Disneyland already has said it would be a limited engagement.


TDO would have to spend money on this to get it in and out. That's why it's not coming here. Because our execs don't want to bring things back for Historical value. Thematics are moot here.

:ROFLOL:

In DL it would be limited,in WDW,no way.

Something NEEDS to go there,but it's not EO.

 

[_Scar]

:zippit: Does it have to be? Granted SOME things have to be, but when you aim for that one demographic only, you fail. See little girls going to the FLWE M/G's. :lol:

And the Marine Bio is great and all, but Future. Again. Futuristic. Where is that?

We have a large AP base, too. And people would come here for it. Look at how quick people come down for these "special" D23 events.

You don't HAVE to aim for children, but when the bulk of people vacationing at WDW are families it's pretty smart to.

It may not be "this is what will happen in the year 2150", but it shows you methods of marine care that are being used to help preserve marine life in the future.

And how do you know people will make special trips down? It hasn't even happened yet.

 

[WDW Vacationer]

:zippit: Does it have to be? Granted SOME things have to be, but when you aim for that one demographic only, you fail. See little girls going to the FLWE M/G's. :lol:

And the Marine Bio is great and all, but Future. Again. Futuristic. Where is that?

We have a large AP base, too. And people would come here for it. Look at how quick people come down for these "special" D23 events.

The Living Seas were a little futuristic,but I never walked in and went "Wow! Look at the future of sea exploration!" Never happened. It was educational,which fits EPCOT's mission, and Nemo is more educational,still fitting the mold.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

:ROFLOL:

In DL it would be limited,in WDW,no way.

Something NEEDS to go there,but it's not EO.

Exactly. Team Di$ney Orlando is at fault.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

You don't HAVE to aim for children, but when the bulk of people vacationing at WDW are families it's pretty smart to.
And forget the rest of the market? Smart.
It may not be "this is what will happen in the year 2150", but it shows you methods of marine care that are being used to help preserve marine life in the future.Briefly...I give it that.

And how do you know people will make special trips down? It hasn't even happened yet.Read around. :lol:

The Living Seas were a little futuristic,but I never walked in and went "Wow! Look at the future of sea exploration!" Never happened. It was educational,which fits EPCOT's mission, and Nemo is more educational,still fitting the mold.

You saw TLS, right? It was way more than a little. It was an experience. It felt real.

Both are about the same level of education. That's a good thing. I've come to realize that. But thematically? Nemo is very disjointed, TLS was cohesive to the highest extent.

 

[_Scar]

Exactly. Team Di$ney Orlando is at fault.

TDO is at fault for a lot of things, point is EO isn't the right fit.

You don't HAVE to aim for children, but when the bulk of people vacationing at WDW are families it's pretty smart to.
And forget the rest of the market? Smart.
It may not be "this is what will happen in the year 2150", but it shows you methods of marine care that are being used to help preserve marine life in the future.Briefly...I give it that.

And how do you know people will make special trips down? It hasn't even happened yet.Read around.

Adults don't like Finding Nemo? And that argument can be said about anything- point is there's a happy medium for everyone and most Pixar and Disney movies are.

Ok...

Actions speak louder than words. We'll see, but I doubt it'll have a huge turn-out.

 

[SirGoofy]

You saw TLS, right? It was way more than a little. It was an experience. It felt real.

Both are about the same level of education. That's a good thing. I've come to realize that. But thematically? Nemo is very disjointed, TLS was cohesive to the highest extent.

TLS was also more boring than watching a one man Broadway show staring Jeff Goldblum.

:snore:

 

[WDW Vacationer]

You saw TLS, right? It was way more than a little. It was an experience. It felt real.

Both are about the same level of education. That's a good thing. I've come to realize that. But thematically? Nemo is very disjointed, TLS was cohesive to the highest extent.

Loved TLS!

Now,educational value. Both have the info at tanks and around the pavillion. However,Nemo Seas gives kids the chance to ask the questions THEY want to know,on top of the plaques. I think more can be learned.

 

[_Scar]

Loved TLS!

Now,educational value. Both have the info at tanks and around the pavillion. However,Nemo Seas gives kids the chance to ask the questions THEY want to know,on top of the plaques. I think more can be learned.

Ooooo, good point!

:sohappy:

Never seen Crush yet (shy family ), but I heard he answers marine biology questions for the kids. Is this true?