Not good but saw it coming

[Pongo]

Great post. This summer will tell how well the ride is perceived. I expect wait times this weekend to be high too. But after the weekend, I expect them to drop drastically. Then we will see what happens in the summer. The only question I have is, if this ride is so popular and well recieved still, why is TT always over an hour and Soarin nears 2 hours, yet M:S is or was 10 minutes? I didn't even go on TT last year because the wait time was 100 minutes.. Soaring was at 120 and Mission Space, 5... That is an indicator of how popular the attraction is.. This was in October during the halloween celebration. If M:S was still that popular, don't you think that the wait time would have been higher? Not saying 100 minutes, but I would expect at least 30-45 minutes. But this is just me, not a scientific proof.

Well, TT and Soarin' have different ride systems than M:S. M:S eats people like sumo wrestler at a sushi buffet. It doesn't break down all that often, and when it does, there are 3 other centrifuges to use. TT on the other hand is notorius for breaking down and doesn't quite bring as many people in at one time. Soarin' is just downright slow when it comes to putting people through. One of the only downsides to the system.

So there are other underlying factors to consider when using wait time as an indicator of popularity. The only true indicator would be attendance records kept by CMs.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Well, TT and Soarin' have different ride systems than M:S. M:S eats people like sumo wrestler at a sushi buffet. It doesn't break down all that often, and when it does, there are 3 other centrifuges to use. TT on the other hand is notorius for breaking down and doesn't quite bring as many people in at one time. Soarin' is just downright slow when it comes to putting people through. One of the only downsides to the system.

So there are other underlying factors to consider when using wait time as an indicator of popularity. The only true indicator would be attendance records kept by CMs.

I know all about TT and it brekaing down.. Broke down 4 or 5 times while I was waiting to get on the ride right were you load into the car..

M:S eats people like sumo wrestler at a sushi buffet. I gotta laugh LOL.. good one :lol:

As you say at the end of your post, the attendance records will be a huge factor. Let's see what happens during the summer. If the public comes out in force and attendance is high, then great.. The public has spoken.. But if numbers are low, then the public is speaking.. Disney will need to listen, but would they actually hear.. JIYI comes to mind...

 

[Captain Chaos]

Srry dxer07002 I only meant to quote the first part of his posting. 143 people out of 8.6bil went to the hospital after riding before the 4yo died.
In terms of riders, that's one every 60,139 rides.thats not enough to close the ride if you want to close a ride it has to be a ligitmate daily problem...maybe if people stopped tryign to be mr/mrs invincible than they wouldnt get themselves hurt trying to impress one another.yes there are minor accidents...this is what only the second or third? there have been two deaths on big thunder railroad but is there any posting saying that we should close that?????

2 deaths, whether they were caused by M:S or not, are associated with M:S. One death from BTMR was due to the ride breaking and one car jumping the other and killing some poor guy who was in the wrong place at the wrong time... I do not know a second death or the cause of it.. But, considering the amount of time BTMR has been opened compared to 2 years for M:S.. 2 deaths associated with MS in only 2 years, as compared to what 2 in 30 years for BTMR??? I think this comment: maybe if people stopped trying to be mr/mrs invincible than they wouldnt get themselves hurt trying to impress one another is a little insensitive to those who have health problems that are not diagnosed and go on this ride. I don't think majority of the people go on M:S trying to impress each other or try to be Mr./Mrs. Invincible.

In in BTMR's case, the death I mentioned above, BTMR was closed down and fixed to make sure it wouldn't happen again. How long was it closed for? I think a week at least, but I could be wrong.. Anyone know how long the ride was closed?

 

[tigsmom]

Interesting Merf....where are you getting your information from? According to a report just on CNN, they claim only 12 people have been sent to the hospital since the ride openned, including the two deaths.

Also....if anyone should be upset at Disney is would be the woman's family....and guess what...they aren't. They have said that the woman hadn't been feeling well prior to the ride.

Quoted those numbers in this article...

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...1306apr13,0,5331604.story?coll=orl-home-promo

 

[imagineer boy]

How long until Steve closes this thread? Place your bets now!

 

[Pongo]

How long until Steve closes this thread? Place your bets now!

Well, it has gotten much more civil in the past few pages :wave:

 

[dxwwf3]

If it hasn't been closed by now, it won't be.

 

[Jseven]

I would like to see the numbers for other rides at Disney because Im positive MS is not the only one to reach 0 and 2 Gs. The enclosed space of the capsule intensifies the slightest feelings of fear or discomfort, in comparison to any other ride which have open spaces (ex. RnR, ToT, etc....) Im sure this as well as all of the warnings actually kind of scare riders and put them in a state of alertness rather than a feeling of comfort. Dont you think your heart beats faster in line for MS or Small world and El Rio Del Tiempo?

 

[Captain Chaos]

I want to see a list of how many times an ambulance was called to Disney after a guest rode an attraction. I want to compare numbers, see which ride gets the most complaints... Who wants to bet M:S wins this one???

 

[MickeyTigg]

Quoted those numbers in this article...

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-disney1306apr13,0,5331604.story?coll=orl-home-promo

Thanks...I hadn't seen that article....obviously CNN has different criteria as to what's a hospital visit or maybe it's the word "sought" that's the difference....or CNN just doesn't know what it's talking about.

Sorry Merf....ignore the earlier part of my previous post.

 

[GothMickey]

I want to post one last comment then I am done with this thread because this is a no win situation for whatever side you are on... I just want you all to really think hard about this.. I am not arguing anything here.. Just trying to analyze something... This is for all of you who claim M:S did not cause the death or was a reason for the death of the 4 year old boy:

The $100 million ride, one of Disney World's most popular, was also closed in June after the death of a 4-year-old boy who passed out while aboard. An autopsy concluded he died of a heart condition that a medical examiner said can cause sudden death in stressful situations.

This is a direct quote from the article on CNN.COM. Let me analyze this...

A 4 year old boy dies on M:S in June 2005. A Medical Examiner states the boy had a pre-existing heart condition. The M.E. also states the condition can cause sudden death is stressful situations... OK, here we go...

1. A person can conclude, after this statement from the M.E. that the pre-existing condition was the cause of death.
2. The condition was aggravated by a stressful situation/event correct?? This was the words of the Medical Examiner not me...
3. The boy was on M:S, passed out on M:S.. Not 30 minutes later, not before he rode M:S, but while on M:S...
4. One could conclude that the stressful situation the boy was in was a fear of this attraction or the g-forces he was experiencing on his 4 year old body.. Thus triggering the heart condition causing his death..

I think it is a fair assumption, after analyzing it this way that M:S was the cause of the condition becoming aggravated thus killing this child... Had he been on say Space Mountain and this happened to him one can conclude the stress situation he faced on Space Mountain caused the condition to kill him..

yes.. M:S was a direct cause of the death of this boy... Just as any attraction that put the boy in a stressful situation would have or could have done.. But the fact is he was on M:S...

I just made my point about M:S.. had a factual statement to back me up.. Therefore, I exit this thread satisfied I proved my point.

 

[Monty]

The numbers in the press article referred to were 143 people out of 8.6 million that "sought medical attention" after riding, as reported in the ambulance service logs. That's not the same as 143 "going to hospital".

Statistics used out of context or mis-quoted don't add to the discussion. As has been quoted oft-times, there are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics. :lol:

 

[Pongo]

The $100 million ride, one of Disney World's most popular, was also closed in June after the death of a 4-year-old boy who passed out while aboard. An autopsy concluded he died of a heart condition that a medical examiner said can cause sudden death in stressful situations.

I'm not meaning to bring you back in, but I do feel I need to reply.

I'm not saying that the stress from the ride didn't cause the boy's death. And I'm not saying that it's the boy's or the parent's fault for going on the ride. It can't be, they had no knowledge of the symptom.

This is a clear-cut instance where no blame can be placed. There are signs outside the ride clearly stating that M:S is a stressful ride. Disney surpassed the lengths needed to make sure riders understood that.

It just so happened the that the stress from M:S caused the boy's condition to be exacerbated. It's a classic example of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. The boy couldn't have known about the condition. The ride couldn't have known about the condition. The doctor couldn't have known about the condition. The CM's couldn't have known about the condition. The parents couldn't have known about the condition. The family decided to get on the ride assuming that everything would go fine. Sometimes we make mistakes without realizing it. It's not our fault.

In some instances, blame just can't be placed. I believe this is one of those instances.

 

[Thessair]

yes.. M:S was a direct cause of the death of this boy... Just as any attraction that put the boy in a stressful situation would have or could have done.. But the fact is he was on M:S...

I just made my point about M:S.. had a factual statement to back me up.. Therefore, I exit this thread satisfied I proved my point.

Actually, M:S would have been the indirect cause of the boy's death and the heart condition the direct cause. But, since you're gone from the thread I suppose there was no reason to point that out...

 

[tigsmom]

I want to post one last comment then I am done with this thread because this is a no win situation for whatever side you are on... I just want you all to really think hard about this.. I am not arguing anything here.. Just trying to analyze something... This is for all of you who claim M:S did not cause the death or was a reason for the death of the 4 year old boy:

The $100 million ride, one of Disney World's most popular, was also closed in June after the death of a 4-year-old boy who passed out while aboard. An autopsy concluded he died of a heart condition that a medical examiner said can cause sudden death in stressful situations.

This is a direct quote from the article on CNN.COM. Let me analyze this...

A 4 year old boy dies on M:S in June 2005. A Medical Examiner states the boy had a pre-existing heart condition. The M.E. also states the condition can cause sudden death is stressful situations... OK, here we go...

1. A person can conclude, after this statement from the M.E. that the pre-existing condition was the cause of death.
2. The condition was aggravated by a stressful situation/event correct?? This was the words of the Medical Examiner not me...
3. The boy was on M:S, passed out on M:S.. Not 30 minutes later, not before he rode M:S, but while on M:S...

4. One could conclude that the stressful situation the boy was in was a fear of this attraction.. Thus triggering the heart condition causing his death..

I think it is a fair assumption, after analyzing it this way that M:S was the cause of the condition becoming aggravated thus killing this child... Had he been on say Space Mountain and this happened to him one can conclude the stress situation he faced on Space Mountain caused the condition to kill him..

yes.. M:S was a direct cause of the death of this boy... Just as any attraction that put the boy in a stressful situation would have or could have done.. But the fact is he was on M:S...

I just made my point about M:S.. had a factual statement to back me up.. Therefore, I exit this thread satisfied I proved my point.

You had me up until that point. The G forces could also be considered as a stress factor on a child that size (also an adult...each body is different).
The child might not have had any fear at all.

 

[tigsmom]

Actually, M:S would have been the indirect cause of the boy's death and the heart condition the direct cause. But, since you're gone from the thread I suppose there was no reason to point that out...

Very good point.

 

[GothMickey]

You had me up until that point. The G forces could also be considered as a stress factor on a child that size (also an adult...each body is different).
The child might not have had any fear at all.

You are right.. I shold have included the g-forces in the ride.. Thank you for pointingt that out... I will go in and add that in...

Does it make my argument seem a more logical now?

 

[GothMickey]

Actually, M:S would have been the indirect cause of the boy's death and the heart condition the direct cause. But, since you're gone from the thread I suppose there was no reason to point that out...

OK fair enough.. But let's finish the point...

Heart condition the cause of death due to what??? A stressful event.. What caused this stessful event??? One would assume his riding M:S.... Whether it was direct or indirect... M:S was still a contributing factor in the death of this boy.. And no one can spin it any other way... All the Medical Examiner said was M:S was not the direct cause of death... But one can assume M:S was the stressful event that cause the condition to aggravate and cause the death..

But I get your point...

 

[tigsmom]

You are right.. I shold have included the g-forces in the ride.. Thank you for pointingt that out... I will go in and add that in...

Does it make my argument seem a more logical now?

Well, the ride was not the direct cause (as if it ran him over), but an indirect one because it exacerbated a pre existing condition (even though they did not know at the time it existed). But yes, the stress caused by being on the ride played a factor.

I think we can all sit here for days and debate the whys and wherefors and you know what? In the end it doesn't really matter. Those poor people are still dead. I have not been on the ride and I will never go on it. I know my body can't handle it. Does that mean it should be closed or changed?
I'm going to say no to closing, maybe to changing...not every ride invented is for every person. *shrugs*

 

[Grim Grinner]

Problem lies within the perspective people hold Mission: Space, as if it really is something out of the ordinary. You can banter about the word Centrifuge until you're blue in the face, but the forces set upon our bodies on that ride are nothing out of the ordinary. The G-forces found in the minutes during an incline in an airplane are more intense and of comparable time frame.

Mission: Space is at its heart a spinning ride like Dumbo or Aladdin. An enclosed space is what really throws people off. Would you classify Dumbo as a dangerous ride? It has the same potential for death.

Its a fact that people die, and as much as we'd like the fantasy of Disney to be so strong as to repel this natural force- it certainly cannot (most of the time). Some people are ticking timebombs, just waiting to expire. Well, we all pretty much are- but some sooner than others.

Many here have looked at the statistics of people sent to the hospital after riding MS. Can't you see that it's a precautionary measure. Going to the hospital in and of itself isn't a bad thing to hold against the ride. I'd love to see how many people are taken to the hospital from heat stroke each day in the summer. I'm sure it puts MS to shame.

Don't get me wrong, I'd much rather have the inspiring Horizons back- but I must continue in the belief that the ride is not a factor- merely a coincidence.

For example: The last six teenage killers played videogames. Should we assume that they (games) were the cause? People cannot understand that coincidence plays a large role and perceptions are often muddled because of this.