Norway Pavilion Frozen construction - Frozen Ever After ride

[SJN1279]

Maelstrom has always been a family ride. Infants, toddlers and preschoolers have been allowed on since its opening. I think you mean "all-ages dark ride dumbed down for Snowflake demo".

And the ride is almost the exact same length. Hence, why capacity will be the same as Maelstrom. An extra 10-15 seconds isn't something to call an 'enhancement'.

Mako and Kong are major additions to their parks that won't be capacity nightmares (well Kong more than Mako). Frozen Ever After is just a misguided, low capacity band-aid.

Maelstorm was never a good ride. It never had a cohesive storyline, and it was in desperate need of an update.

I believe the Frozen craze has died down a bit, but this ride will be a huge hit anyway you slice it.

 

[Wikkler]

This guy is crazy though... clearly doesn't understand theme parks or the detail/Imagineering that goes into them.

1. I wrote that comment.
2. It was extremely sarcastic if you couldn't tell.

 

[SJN1279]

Missing quite a few negatives there.

I also like the fact that it isn't a greatest hits of Frozen ride, but it is telling a whole new story in the Frozen world.

 

[The Tuna]

This is not a scientific sample, but let me pass this along. My daughter, who is 9, was a big fan of Frozen when it came out, as were most of her friends at her school. Every child you saw was singing "Let It Go" non-stop.

But that was then. My daughter informs me that at the end-of-year party, someone played "Let It Go" and everyone was begging for it to stop. They are all Frozen-ed out.

Maybe there are enough die-hard fans that this ride can still succeed based on the tie-in alone, but in the long run, it still seems like success is dependent on quality and not mere affiliation.

If you think the world is frozened out, check out the merchandise sales and wait for the pics of the lineups. Or look at the lineups that still exist for the meet and greet in the magic kingdom. This ride is going to bring massive crowds of little girls and their parents for years to come. When the sequel comes out their little sisters will be all over it as well. They don't care that it is an overlay of an old attraction, they just want to see Anna, Elsa and Olaf. They won't care that it could have been so much better or that it is placed in Norway and not the Magic Kingdom or in a land dedicated solely to it. That's for the message boards.

 

[odmichael]

Vikings are a lot more to me... especially if it were like GMR where Vikings pillage your boat and make you their prisoners. Far more enticing than 'Let it Go' and an Olaf AA dancing.

Plus, there are so many other ways to make Epcot more kid-friendly. A tour of London hosted by Mary Poppins. Inside Out replacing the WoL pavillion. Upgrading Figment to trackless. Getting rid of the Nemo ride and make it educational. More rides throughout World Showcase (one per pavillion). Something between Land and Seas. Replacing the empty Odyssey area with IASW. Making Ellen a worthwhile attraction. Fixing Innoventions. Fixing up SSE.

This guy is crazy though... clearly doesn't understand theme parks or the detail/Imagineering that goes into them.

If TDO really wanted to, they could have used the expansion pad between Mexico and Norway for a Frozen dark ride AND M&G. One with double the capacity. And Maelstrom could still stand today.

Literally all of the things you mention are not what kids want. They are what you and probably several other grown-ups want. You have to realize that a Frozen ride is going to happy young adults and their future children for at least the next decade. Parks need to progress.

This is not a scientific sample, but let me pass this along. My daughter, who is 9, was a big fan of Frozen when it came out, as were most of her friends at her school. Every child you saw was singing "Let It Go" non-stop.

But that was then. My daughter informs me that at the end-of-year party, someone played "Let It Go" and everyone was begging for it to stop. They are all Frozen-ed out.

Maybe there are enough die-hard fans that this ride can still succeed based on the tie-in alone, but in the long run, it still seems like success is dependent on quality and not mere affiliation.

I don't think an end-of-the-year party and a ride at Disney World are comparable.

 

[marni1971]

Here's food for thought. How money is being invested to continue to fix DLP.

http://www.dlptoday.com/2015/06/10/...enhancement-plans-for-10-classic-attractions/

Note specifically that the treehouse is being taken back to opening day show quality, not having a movie tie in added.

 

[BaconPancakes]

People are so annoying repeating the screens thing. Do you already know that cutting edge AAs will be installed?

Source?

 

[marni1971]

People are so annoying repeating the screens thing. Do you already know that cutting edge AAs will be installed?

It will be a mixture.

 

[Phineas]

Getting rid of the Nemo ride and make it educational.

Now, if only there were some sort of compromise here where Disney could incorporate the beloved Nemo ensemble and be educational. But that's silly. They'd have to invent some lame, boring teacher fish, which just isn't going to happen.

...Oh.

Yes, I'm aware that Mr. Ray narrates different exhibits, and has a bit of a presence here- but seriously, how easy would it have been to make it a guided tour of the seas, taught by Mr. Ray, with cameos from Nemo and friends along the way? It would work so much better than the book report approach they're going for now.

It could appease antsy kids that just wanna-Find Nemo (So. Sorry.), and adults that are more interested in learning ocean facts with conservation messages peppered in.

Epcot doesn't need to feel like homework, nor should it feel like needless pandering throughout.

 

[odmichael]

Now, if only there were some sort of compromise here where Disney could incorporate the beloved Nemo ensemble and be educational. But that's silly. They'd have to invent some lame, boring teacher fish, which just isn't going to happen.

...Oh.

Yes, I'm aware that Mr. Ray narrates different exhibits, and has a bit of a presence here- but seriously, how easy would it have been to make it a guided tour of the seas, taught by Mr. Ray, with cameos from Nemo and friends along the way? It would work so much better than the book report approach they're going for now.

It could appease antsy kids that just wanna-Find Nemo (So. Sorry.), and adults that are more interested in learning ocean facts with conservation messages peppered in.

Epcot doesn't need to feel like homework, nor should it feel like needless pandering throughout.

Really doesn't bother me the way it is right now. But this is actually a good way of doing it too I suppose.

 

[BaconPancakes]

I also like the fact that it isn't a greatest hits of Frozen ride, but it is telling a whole new story in the Frozen world.

Is this satire, because this attraction has no story whatsoever...

 

[Phineas]

Really doesn't bother me the way it is right now. But this is actually a good way of doing it too I suppose.

It really doesn't "bother" me either, and for what could have happened, I really do enjoy the theme of the ride, and you can tell they really did do their work (other than adding to the aquarium itself). The queue is very nice, and the tech being used is pretty impressive.

I just think there could have been a better way to go about adapting these characters into more of an "Epcot-feel" experience. Not just "here's a recap of that movie you can probably recite word-for-word!"

Plus, the clamshell omnimovers ensure it's always a walk-on, which is always welcome.

 

[Shaman]

Wait, so is Frozen NOT popular anymore or will the attraction have long lines that wrap around WS? Can't be both.

 

[gmajew]

Malestrom ride was never a E ticket attraction it was long pass its prime. The frozen overlay is not the right solution either, but the revenue generation from this addition will well surpass what was in that area.

Is it the right treatment for this IP NO! Should they have gone big with it and blown it out of the water with out a doubt. Should they not have put it in Epcot yes!!

But I know my friends kids are going to love this ride... they will wait hours to get on it and it will drive a new demo to this park. If they don't give these new guest something else to do though they will not be back because the rest of Epcot is stale and boring to most kids and families.

My kids tolerate epcot because they know I love walking the countries doing living land etc. So I get my nights in Epcot they get the days in the parks they like.

If Disney wants to make Epcot worth anything with this addition they need to green light reds of imagination and Ellen soon or the momentum this ride generates will die.

 

[mahnamahna101]

Literally all of the things you mention are not what kids want. They are what you and probably several other grown-ups want. You have to realize that a Frozen ride is going to happy young adults and their future children for at least the next decade. Also kids don't want "Educational". They want Nemo. Disney is just smart enough to combine the two. Parks need to progress.

I don't think an end-of-the-year party and a ride at Disney World are comparable.

Disney is just 'business savvy' enough to take a popular IP and phone it in.

But I question you saying what I want isn't kid-friendly.

Inside Out (a Pixar animated film) as a WoL replacement wouldn't appeal to kids?

A gorgeous, state-of-the-art Hunny Hunt/Mystic Manor-esque dark ride themed to Figment and the Dreamfinder wouldn't appeal to kids? With colorful sets/AAs?

A Mary Poppins attraction in the UK wouldn't appeal to kids?

IASW replacing the Odyssey wouldn't appeal to kids?

A Ratatouille clone in France wouldn't appeal to kids?

A Matterhorn clone in a Switzerland pavillion wouldn't appeal to kids?

A dark ride with Mushu guiding guests through China wouldn't appeal to kids?

An updated Energy pavillion wouldn't appeal to kids?

An EMV dark ride that takes you through tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes and snowstorms wouldn't appeal to older kids? (8-12 yr olds)

Just because kids 'want' Frozen or Nemo doesn't mean the attractions have to dumb down their respective areas. It doesn't mean they should be shoehorned in because TDO doesn't actually want to expand the parks. Kids are a lot smarter than you think - Walt and the classic Imagineers knew that (POTC, HM, Jungle Cruise, Adventures Through Inner Space, Spaceship Earth, Horizons, Worlds of Motion, original Journey Into Imagination, Living With the Land, Great Movie Ride).

If your logic had been applied, they would have simply taken a Disney cartoon/film and done a simplistic 'book report' version. But they didn't. They knew kids and adults alike could appreciate a more sophisticated ride experience. They knew people didn't need a blatant tie-in to enjoy an attraction if it was high-quality.

The expansion pad between Mexico and Norway definitely could have been worked out to fit a high capacity dark ride and the M&G without replacing Maelstrom. TDO just wanted to keep costs low.

Epcot being turned into 'whatever we don't have room for in Fantasyland under the loose guise of education/progress' isn't progress. Just adding an animated film to an existing attraction alone isn't enough to fix anything. If anything, it just makes the left side of World Showcase a capacity nightmare.

Maelstorm was never a good ride. It never had a cohesive storyline, and it was in desperate need of an update.

I believe the Frozen craze has died down a bit, but this ride will be a huge hit anyway you slice it.

Frozen Ever After's storyline is equally incohesive based on insiders' reactions. It's supposedly 'Let it Go', Olaf/Sven doing something funny, and Anna, Kristoff, Elsa and Olaf saying good-bye.

Maelstrom should have gotten an update, instead of a dumbed-down Snowflake replacement. Plenty of room next door to Norway for a Frozen dark ride. Not to mention DHS or the Speedway at MK.

 

[OliveMcFly]

What do you suppose will go in the theater at the end of the ride? Will it just be gutted and used for a larger unload area?

I'm going to miss Maelstrom, I enjoyed the ride. I was not a fan of Epcot when I was a kid but as I grew older I had a respect for the education and learned as an adult. I'm afraid that will be lost if more and more characters are added. Let's not forget that characters were not even supposed to be in this park but as many things do, they change.

 

[englanddg]

What do you suppose will go in the theater at the end of the ride? Will it just be gutted and used for a larger unload area?

I'm going to miss Maelstrom, I enjoyed the ride. I was not a fan of Epcot when I was a kid but as I grew older I had a respect for the education and learned as an adult. I'm afraid that will be lost if more and more characters are added. Let's not forget that characters were not even supposed to be in this park but as many things do, they change.

Yeah, but the "no character" rules changed pretty quickly. Within a few years of opening (if even that long), iirc.

I seem to recall someone posted a simple track/scene adjusted layout a while ago, but I'll be darned if I can find it right now.

 

[Brad Bishop]

One day, SDMT will have the same lines as Barnstormer. And that would be appropriate. It's still very new but it hardly gets glowing reviews from the folks in line for 100 minutes. Once the park reaches a point where most of its visitors have experienced the ride at least once, lines will decline. This usually takes a few years and a more recent addition/update. Soarin' is actually popular while TSMM suffers from being in a park with a paucity of rides for the whole family. I don't actually see the expanded capacity to either leading to much of a wait-time reduction (at least not a reduction to what most of us would consider a reasonable wait). I think it will just allow more guests to ride. Right now, lots of guests are being turned away altogether by 240-minute waits. They would get in a shorter line. For most of us, even if the wait drops to 200 minutes, we will still view both rides as first-thing-in-the-morning or only-with-Fastpass rides. But Disney will get fewer complaints from guests saying they weren't given an opportunity to ride. Those complaints will shift to Frozen Ever After...

I agree. If you think back to when Space Mountain opened, people were excited to ride it and they were excited when they got off of it. It still pulls in the crowds.

SDMT seems to get this reaction:
- I did it because it was there
- I did it because it was new
- feels like 1/2 a ride
- I wouldn't wait more than n minutes for it next time

Space Mountain's reactions were way better, thinking back to my childhood:
- That was awesome!
- I can't wait to do that again (no thought of wait times)
- I'm pretty sure it looped - but you can't tell (anyone else remember that?)

With regards to TSMM:
I think, as you mentioned, it's not competing with much else in it's own park. I also think it's just an "OK" ride. It's not bad. It's fun. It's not 240min wait time fun, though. I think it also suffers from it's own popularity. Everyone thinks there's going to be a run on TSMM and, thus, there is. It's much like a run on the banks. It's a self-created problem which, in turn, turns into a real one.

 

[ChrisFL]

Disney actually doesn't like M&Gs. Guests demand them. They are very expensive to run for their abyssmally low capacity. Disney would prefer stage shows in big theaters like they've added to World Showcase recently--more bang for their buck. But guests demand to grope a princess at a prearranged time so their little snowflakes will be guaranteed face time 60+10 days out.

But they make tons of money on their 900% marked up autograph books and pens

 

[mahnamahna101]

USO have just announced another IP going into the parks. This is getting sad disney.

Is it something other than Hello Kitty?