Norway Pavilion Frozen construction - Frozen Ever After ride

[odmichael]

Disney is just 'business savvy' enough to take a popular IP and phone it in.

But I question you saying what I want isn't kid-friendly.

Inside Out (a Pixar animated film) as a WoL replacement wouldn't appeal to kids?

A gorgeous, state-of-the-art Hunny Hunt/Mystic Manor-esque dark ride themed to Figment and the Dreamfinder wouldn't appeal to kids? With colorful sets/AAs?

A Mary Poppins attraction in the UK wouldn't appeal to kids?

IASW replacing the Odyssey wouldn't appeal to kids?

A Ratatouille clone in France wouldn't appeal to kids?

A Matterhorn clone in a Switzerland pavillion wouldn't appeal to kids?

A dark ride with Mushu guiding guests through China wouldn't appeal to kids?

An updated Energy pavillion wouldn't appeal to kids?

An EMV dark ride that takes you through tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes and snowstorms wouldn't appeal to older kids? (8-12 yr olds)

I never said what you want isn't "Kid-Friendly". I called what you want for old people. Old people want Mary Poppins, Matterhorns, and Figment. Just because something is kid friendly doesn't mean kids want it. Kids aren't taking selfies with Figment. Now not everything you mentioned is for old people. But the reality is it would be foolish to not make a ride on the highest grossing animated film of all time.

Just because kids 'want' Frozen or Nemo doesn't mean the attractions have to dumb down their respective areas. It doesn't mean they should be shoehorned in because TDO doesn't actually want to expand the parks. Kids are a lot smarter than you think - Walt and the classic Imagineers knew that (POTC, HM, Jungle Cruise, Adventures Through Inner Space, Spaceship Earth, Horizons, Worlds of Motion, original Journey Into Imagination, Living With the Land, Great Movie Ride).

I shouldn't have said kids don't want "Educational". They do. They like being challenged. But not every ride needs to be educational if it is fun and exciting. There was nothing educational about Honey I Shrunk the Audience. It was just fun and people loved it because there was a little imagination there.

I took that and my comment about Nemo out of my edited post after reading a comment by @Phineas. However, I will say that going around the aquarium and still being able to read and learn about the animals is fine by me. I don't think that the system in place is broken. It could be improved upon.

If your logic had been applied, they would have simply taken a Disney cartoon/film and done a simplistic 'book report' version. But they didn't. They knew kids and adults alike could appreciate a more sophisticated ride experience. They knew people didn't need a blatant tie-in to enjoy an attraction if it was high-quality.

The expansion pad between Mexico and Norway definitely could have been worked out to fit a high capacity dark ride and the M&G without replacing Maelstrom. TDO just wanted to keep costs low.

Also I'm not even in agreement with this ride being built. This is the reason why - because the space to build a new ride is available. I've already posted it in this thread. I'm not disagreeing that the ride shouldn't be there. I just think some of your reasoning is invalid.

Epcot being turned into 'whatever we don't have room for in Fantasyland under the loose guise of education/progress' isn't progress. Just adding an animated film to an existing attraction alone isn't enough to fix anything. If anything, it just makes the left side of World Showcase a capacity nightmare.

I agree. It's not the right place for the ride because it is not educational. It belongs in another park. But to say that kids do not want Olaf is just not true.
EDIT: That's not to say everything in Epcot needs to be educational either. The ride just seems to go against the culture of World Showcase.

Frozen Ever After's storyline is equally incohesive based on insiders' reactions. It's supposedly 'Let it Go', Olaf/Sven doing something funny, and Anna, Kristoff, Elsa and Olaf saying good-bye.

Maelstrom should have gotten an update, instead of a dumbed-down Snowflake replacement. Plenty of room next door to Norway for a Frozen dark ride. Not to mention DHS or the Speedway at MK.

At least its not a ride telling us the story of Frozen. Also how many theme park rides based on movies that last 4 minutes long tell cohesive stories? The ride won't be garbage. It just shouldn't be there in the first place. There's a difference.

 

[Brad Bishop]

Is it the right treatment for this IP NO! Should they have gone big with it and blown it out of the water with out a doubt. Should they not have put it in Epcot yes!!

I agree. I think it's sad that we're all thinking, "Imagine what they could have done..."

A lot of us think that with Frozen. A lot of us think that with NFL. A lot of us think that with Nemo, Imagination, or whatever. It seems, time and time again, we keep coming back to, "Imagine what they could've done.."

Now if you go look at Universal and their recent upgrades you can see that they are imagining. Their attitude is, "Imagine how cool it'd be...," and then they build something awesome.

Over at Disney it seems to be, "Imagine our bonuses if we came in under budget..," and you get generic stuff and retreads.

I think, long term, that this is all going to bite them in the . Disney is thought of as a premium product. They sell it as a premium product. They keep doing mediocre things. Any thought of imagination, inventiveness, etc. seem to be things of the past and it always keeps coming back to retreads and generic ideas limited by silly budgets.

Now, let's understand that you MUST have budgets. I'm not arguing about budgets but they seem to limit their budgets in such a way as limiting the scope of their projects.

Go look at Rocket Rods at DL. They didn't need to do any sort of structural analysis on the old People Mover track. Just rip out the People Mover and stick a new, exciting ride on the old platform. Easy peasy. Except it was a huge failure. Now they have a 20yo unused eyesore constantly reminding people of the People Mover that they used to enjoy.. BUT I bet it looked good on paper with the budget! Someone got bonuses and a promotion for that, I bet. That, to me, is the problem.

You see it with Nemo. You see it with Frozen. You even see it with Buzz. They no longer give us inventive, imaginative, new things. Just another off the shelf deal.

I think, eventually, 10 or so years down the line, people are going to wise up to Disney being the same-old same-old and think, "You know, maybe our vacation dollars would be better spent elsewhere."

 

[PhotoDave219]

This is not the imagineering section.....

 

[danlb_2000]

Source?

http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2015...xclusive-look-at-disneys-upcoming-attraction/

"The audio-animatronic characters will be cutting edge, Ms. Mangum said, using a new technology that includes projectors behind the faces to enable more lifelike animation. It was first used on the Seven Dwarfs Mine Train ride that opened in Walt Disney World’s Magic Kingdom last year."

 

[aladdin2007]

What do you suppose will go in the theater at the end of the ride? Will it just be gutted and used for a larger unload area?

I'm going to miss Maelstrom, I enjoyed the ride. I was not a fan of Epcot when I was a kid but as I grew older I had a respect for the education and learned as an adult. I'm afraid that will be lost if more and more characters are added. Let's not forget that characters were not even supposed to be in this park but as many things do, they change.

gutted..will be new queue, and reconfigured load/unload.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

I don't think the main issue is that this attraction is based on Frozen, I think the problem is that it's an extremely cheap overlay that's going to utilize screens only and will have zero story.

Contrary to popular belief, Themed Design is not actually a great storytelling medium. Story doesn't actually matter if the experience is great. Life isn't lived in stories, it's lived in events (the stories come after). Theme parks replicate the sensation of everyday living within heightened circumstances.

Themed Entertainment works best when an interesting environment is met with exciting events. Ghosts throwing a party in a haunted house. A main train set loose in the buttes of the old west. Journey Into Imagination was great because it let you go home and tell your exciting story about the adventure you went on with Figment and Dreamfinder, not because the ride had a story for you to absorb. It was simply a grand experience. There's not enough time in most rides to tell a full, interesting story. That's part of what's so different about Mermaid and Peter Pan in Magic Kingdom. Mermaid shows you the things Ariel did. Peter Pan lets you DO what he did (and see some familiar faces along the way).

Visiting Elsa in her Ice Palace as she belts out "Let It Go", snow spiraling around, sounds like an event worthy of experiencing regardless of story. People will come from miles around to be with her in that moment. The ride doesn't need a story. It's a boat tour of Arendelle, and you'll meet its most famous residents along the way. No different than the boat tour of the Caribbean featuring the most notorious pirates to sail the Spanish Main that sits over in the Magic Kingdom. Whether the Frozen ride is any good will rest largely in execution (though it's still in the wrong park), but the lack of story isn't automatically a mark against it.

Obviously this rant got a little bigger than just a response to your post, BaconPancakes. Don't think I'm trying to serve a dissertation to you specifically! The topic of story in rides, and this one specifically, has been popular and I felt the need to speak about it. Many of Disney's most classic attractions have no story beyond their simple premise - "This ride is a cool place where, if you go, a cool thing will happen to and around you". The goal should be for you to go home and have your own exciting story to tell about what you experienced, knowing you would never have gotten to do it in real life.

Create an immersive environment for an 'event' to take place and people will be entertained, whether or not there's a story being told.

 

[polynesiangirl]

I'm bummed about these details, but I was already pretty peeved about this overhaul to begin with. And I say this as a mom whose kids have seen Frozen about 10 billion times and are probably going to LOVE this ride. I really wish they had put it virtually anywhere except where it's going, and I wish they'd gone bigger with it.

 

[Flippin'Flounder]

Why is everyone so happy about this not being a book report? All the book reports I can think of are good (PPF, SWSA, Winnie the Pooh) and non-book reports are bad (Nemo, Johny Depp POTC)

 

[muteki]

Why is everyone so happy about this not being a book report? All the book reports I can think of are good (PPF, SWSA, Winnie the Pooh) and non-book reports are bad (Nemo, Johny Depp POTC)

A recent book report that is arguably bad would be LM.

At the very least, bad at being a book report.

 

[dizneeboy]

I dropped this on the blog today:

"The frozen battle has been exhausted above so my only comment is this....I really wish we would start getting some new experiences by adding to the ride count instead of sacrificing nostalgia/originals. Plussing/reimagining is a Disneyism and very welcome/expected. Gutting/Replacing to capitalize on a popular franchise is not. As it moves closer to having to take out a second mortgage to visit the World, let's at least give the public more to do ; )"

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Whoever made this was right on the money I guess.
View attachment 96253
Now I just need to find out who and get some lottery numbers........

T'was I! But don't ask me for lottery numbers. This is the first thing I've gotten right since . . . since . . .

. . .

That said, I did not predict the little snow munchkin things. So, not quite on the money.

 

[ChrisFL]

Contrary to popular belief, Themed Design is not actually a great storytelling medium. Story doesn't actually matter if the experience is great. Life isn't lived in stories, it's lived in events (the stories come after). Theme parks replicate the sensation of everyday living within heightened circumstances.

Themed Entertainment works best when an interesting environment is met with exciting events. Ghosts throwing a party in a haunted house. A main train set loose in the buttes of the old west. Journey Into Imagination was great because it let you go home and tell your exciting story about the adventure you went on with Figment and Dreamfinder, not because the ride had a story for you to absorb. It was simply a grand experience. There's not enough time in most rides to tell a full, interesting story. That's part of what's so different about Mermaid and Peter Pan in Magic Kingdom. Mermaid shows you the things Ariel did. Peter Pan lets you DO what he did (and see some familiar faces along the way).

Visiting Elsa in her Ice Palace as she belts out "Let It Go", snow spiraling around, sounds like an event worthy of experiencing regardless of story. People will come from miles around to be with her in that moment. The ride doesn't need a story. It's a boat tour of Arendelle, and you'll meet its most famous residents along the way. No different than the boat tour of the Caribbean featuring the most notorious pirates to sail the Spanish Main that sits over in the Magic Kingdom. Whether the Frozen ride is any good will rest largely in execution (though it's still in the wrong park), but the lack of story isn't automatically a mark against it.

Obviously this rant got a little bigger than just a response to your post, BaconPancakes. Don't think I'm trying to serve a dissertation to you specifically! The topic of story in rides, and this one specifically, has been popular and I felt the need to speak about it. Many of Disney's most classic attractions have no story beyond their simple premise - "This ride is a cool place where, if you go, a cool thing will happen to and around you". The goal should be for you to go home and have your own exciting story to tell about what you experienced, knowing you would never have gotten to do it in real life.

Create an immersive environment for an 'event' to take place and people will be entertained, whether or not there's a story being told.

http://imagineerebirth.blogspot.com/2006/11/myth-of-story.html

 

[imagineer boy]

I know others have said this, but I fear they're going to do with Frozen what they did with Stitch. He was everywhere, up to and including on merchandise, where he shared space with "The Fab Four".
And remember when they TP'd Cinderella Castle and blamed Stitch?
Ohhh that scamp.


Frozen is not a bad movie. When I first saw it, I knew it would take off, and was happy that Disney finally had a bonafide hit on their hands, tonally similar, but not as well-crafted as those films part of the Disney Renaissance.

(My major issue with Frozen was the horrendous, nails-on-a-chalkboard song "Fixer Upper" that comes waaaay out of left field, but that's neither here nor there.)

Sure, right now I'm over Frozen-but give me 5 years to recharge, and I'll give it another watch.

But oh my gosh. Too much of a "good" thing can be disastrous. And from the looks of things, they're doing it in a fairly cheap, uninspired way. And the destruction of any attempt to teach us about the actual culture of Norway will never sit well with me. Or never hearing "Disappear! DISAPPEAR!" ever again. That one hurts.

I really hope this doesn't end up being Epcot's Stitch's Great Escape. Hyperbole, maybe-but we'll see.

I agree. I thought Frozen was very good and one of Disney's best in years but I feel it still lacks the poetry and power of the 90s renaissance movies. And yes you can have too much of a good thing and Disney is on its way of destroying Frozen's fresh franchise.

 

[Flippin'Flounder]

A recent book report that is arguably bad would be LM.

At the very least, bad at being a book report.

Bad, but still better than Nemo and Jack

 

[Mike S]

Literally all of the things you mention are not what kids want. They are what you and probably several other grown-ups want. You have to realize that a Frozen ride is going to happy young adults and their future children for at least the next decade. Parks need to progress.


I don't think an end-of-the-year party and a ride at Disney World are comparable.

Frostrom isn't progession, it's regression. An amazing refresh of Imagination and pretty much the rest of Future World would be progression. A proper update for Maelstrom would've been progression. A big Frozen attraction in DHS that could handle the crowds since MK is packed enough as it is would be progression.

 

[imagineer boy]

http://imagineerebirth.blogspot.com/2006/11/myth-of-story.html

I wish people would stop posting that. Rides DO have story but most of them really lack plots, that's the difference.

 

[imagineer boy]

Literally all of the things you mention are not what kids want. They are what you and probably several other grown-ups want. You have to realize that a Frozen ride is going to happy young adults and their future children for at least the next decade. Parks need to progress.

I'll say this again, sometimes people don't know what they want. If you keep feeding people the same old crap, they'll just keep asking for the same old crap because they won't know what else is different.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Frostrom isn't progession, it's regression. An amazing refresh of Imagination and pretty much the rest of Future World would be progression. A proper update for Maelstrom would've been progression. A big Frozen attraction in DHS that could handle the crowds since MK is packed enough as it is would be progression.

Gotta stay fresh if you want to get a crowd.

 

[Pirouline]

When do you guys think this whole frozen hype will die down? I think within a year and a half to two years.

 

[sshindel]

1. I wrote that comment.
2. It was extremely sarcastic if you couldn't tell.

Sometimes good sarcasm is just too good!