Norway Pavilion Frozen construction - Frozen Ever After ride

Status
Not open for further replies.
Mike S

Mike S

Well-Known Member
Goofyernmost said:
I am aware of that, I'm just trying to say that those things that people are complaining about are normal for any dark ride and have been since the first one existed. It makes me go back to the thought that when all of us first started going to a Disney park, be it DL or WDW, we were so enthralled by what we saw that we didn't notice the other parts that could easily have ruined our fantasy. We just didn't see them. Now we have become bored with the stuff we start to notice every little thing and try to relate it present times or present policy's or, worse yet, we somehow believe enough in "the magic" that we impose a denial of reality concerning the realities of the actual world we live in, which has to account for gravity and needing to support a structure by using walls, etc. Someone looks at a concept art, like the one for LM and don't see all those outside forces because they aren't needed in an animation, yet are upset if the show itself has to deal with that.

Think about all the things that people have complained about with LM alone. For example, Ariels hair looked unreal and didn't react like underwater hair should move. Well, duh, it isn't under water actually, so for all those complaining did they have any idea how to make it look like that when the physical surroundings cannot be duplicated without the actual elements, in this case water? I don't think that LM is the best I have ever seen, but, considering the topic and the diversity of environments that are depicted they did a pretty good job. To not consider the queue itself as a part of the overall experience is just to tight a focus on one part of a multi-faceted attraction. And the parts that they did initially screw up on, they fixed.

If you have read any of my other posts you will realize that I am not pixie dusted or a blind follower of the virtues of the Disney Company in how it relates to how the company is run. Here's what I see, a company that for a long time didn't do anything to plus an attraction, did, finally, create an entire undersea world in a dry as a bone show and ride and it isn't enough for people. It must be something that no Disney show had ever had and that is reality so precise that you weren't forced to think it is real. For years they relied on the people using their own imagination to fill in the blanks. The more that we are unable to see anything unless it is totally done for us the more we complain, the more we complain about something that actually did have a lot of expense and detail attached to, the less they are given the incentive to really get all concerned about that detail. It's never enough.
Click to expand...
If that is indeed true, why do rides like Haunted Mansion and Pirates of the Caribbean all hide these same things much better than Mermaid?
 
Goofyernmost

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
marni1971 said:
Consensus of opinion - not just here - is that the Orlando queue is better than the ride.
Click to expand...
Your right, because I see that queue as part of the attraction, others don't. I guess gussying it all up is just a waste of time. By gosh, they are right not to do that after all since no one considers it anything but a place to stand and wait. Perhaps my expectations and vision of reality is different the the rest. I also am one that doesn't think that a high speed, gut wrenching roller coaster should be in Fantasyland either, so there you go! :)
 
Goofyernmost

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Mike S said:
If that is indeed true, why do rides like Haunted Mansion and Pirates of the Caribbean all hide these same things much better than Mermaid?
Click to expand...
They don't hide them at all, it's just darker and you don't notice them as much. I'm not saying that there aren't flaws in the LM ride, I'm just saying that those flaws are over emphasized and way to much concern and attention is being paid to them. Not everything lends itself to a good dark ride. Some of them just flow from scene to scene because of their makeup.
 
marni1971

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
Goofyernmost said:
Your right, because I see that queue as part of the attraction, others don't. I guess gussying it all up is just a waste of time. By gosh, they are right not to do that after all since no one considers it anything but a place to stand and wait. Perhaps my expectations and vision of reality is different the the rest.! :)
Click to expand...
Oh not at all. Don't put yourself down old chap :)

You can get amazing queues and preshows with an even better experience at the end. See Indy Jones in DL, ToT in DHS, Star Tours everywhere....
 
Mike S

Mike S

Well-Known Member
Sped2424 said:
WHich is a huge problem. I still don't know how no one in management notices that the tech in the queue has now outshined the entire experience of the attraction. Perhaps it's time for a actual redo of the ride here.
Click to expand...
We had the space to build a better version than DCA's. Our show building is actually bigger but what the extra space towards the back is actually used for I have no idea.
image.png
 
wdisney9000

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
Goofyernmost said:
I am aware of that, I'm just trying to say that those things that people are complaining about are normal for any dark ride and have been since the first one existed. It makes me go back to the thought that when all of us first started going to a Disney park, be it DL or WDW, we were so enthralled by what we saw that we didn't notice the other parts that could easily have ruined our fantasy. We just didn't see them. Now we have become bored with the stuff we start to notice every little thing and try to relate it present times or present policy's or, worse yet, we somehow believe enough in "the magic" that we impose a denial of reality concerning the realities of the actual world we live in, which has to account for gravity and needing to support a structure by using walls, etc. Someone looks at a concept art, like the one for LM and don't see all those outside forces because they aren't needed in an animation, yet are upset if the show itself has to deal with that.

Think about all the things that people have complained about with LM alone. For example, Ariels hair looked unreal and didn't react like underwater hair should move. Well, duh, it isn't under water actually, so for all those complaining did they have any idea how to make it look like that when the physical surroundings cannot be duplicated without the actual elements, in this case water? I don't think that LM is the best I have ever seen, but, considering the topic and the diversity of environments that are depicted they did a pretty good job. To not consider the queue itself as a part of the overall experience is just to tight a focus on one part of a multi-faceted attraction. And the parts that they did initially screw up on, they fixed.

If you have read any of my other posts you will realize that I am not pixie dusted or a blind follower of the virtues of the Disney Company in how it relates to how the company is run. Here's what I see, a company that for a long time didn't do anything to plus an attraction, did, finally, create an entire undersea world in a dry as a bone show and ride and it isn't enough for people. It must be something that no Disney show had ever had and that is reality so precise that you weren't forced to think it is real. For years they relied on the people using their own imagination to fill in the blanks. The more that we are unable to see anything unless it is totally done for us the more we complain, the more we complain about something that actually did have a lot of expense and detail attached to, the less they are given the incentive to really get all concerned about that detail. It's never enough.
Click to expand...
My issue with LM is that it has some really nice effects and some really bad ones. The obvious one being the Under the Sea room but even the smaller ones such as the scene with Ariel and Eric in the boat and the fish are spitting up the plastic water. It just looks bad. Even the boat looks horrible.

lmwater.jpg


Then you have a ride like Splash Mountain that has actual water jumping from one lilly pad thingy to the next and I cant help but wonder how they were able to do that 20 years ago but cant find a way to make it happen in LM. They could, but chose not deal with the hassle and maintenance. Even Living With the Land does a much better job creating a more realistic environment. The simulated rain, the thunder and lightning and sound effects are much better than anything LM has, and again, LWtL is decades older. Not bashing LM, I enjoy it, but its an example of how they put much much more care and effort into the attractions years ago than they today. They would rather build a fancy queue that is more realistic than the ride itself, simply because its easier and cheaper. As a child, I sat in awe as I mother showed me the pirate on the bridge (POTC) and his dangling leg which has hair that was put in by hand. You want see that anymore.
 
Bocabear

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
Mike S said:
We had the space to build a better version than DCA's. Our show building is actually bigger but what the extra space towards the back is actually used for I have no idea.
View attachment 138149
Click to expand...
And the fact that the Florida version had the space to build whatever they wanted...it was not hemmed into an existing building in a tight space...they chose to make the ride as it is...the sets too close to the tracks, the bland sense of staging and rushed ending... The queue is what they did absolutely right, and yes, it is part of the attraction, but only the prelude...the actual ride is the main attraction... and it's not terrible...it's a sweet little ride, but not matching it's hype....
Which is what I am expecting from Frozstum...
 
Goofyernmost

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
marni1971 said:
Oh not at all. Don't put yourself down old chap :)

You can get amazing queues and preshows with an even better experience at the end. See Indy Jones in DL, ToT in DHS, Star Tours everywhere....
Click to expand...
Indy Jones in DL was a disappointment for me, but, mostly because of extenuation circumstances. As you know the length of that queue makes it pretty certain that the ride itself is somewhere in Mexico. After having traversed it to it's entire length, the ride was evacuated so it was back across the border only to start over about 20 minutes later. The queue itself just seemed long to me and nothing else. To me it was just a cave with no end. Again, a difference in perspective. I thought the ride was good, certainly better then what they did with dinosaurs, but, the queue totally unimpressive to me other then sheer length. That may have been at the time in my life when I was just concentrating on the ride itself and not the detail previous to the ride.
 
Seabasealpha1

Seabasealpha1

Well-Known Member
captainmoch said:
My friend's uncle's ex-wife is a bus driver and told me that they're not going to have boats. You just jump into the water with life jackets. It'll bring up the capacity, at least. Should be open by June 2019.
Click to expand...

I smell a tie-in with James Cameron! Disney will buy out the rights to Titanic (another authentic Norweigian legend!) and the ride will consist of bobbing in frigid waters while the lights suddenly go out and the sounds of wailing and the gnashing of teeth are played through a boom box on blocks of floating styrofoam... A cast member will slap the water with a 2x4 at random to simulate falling debris from the stern of the ship...and the lastest Disney channel stars will cover "Nearer My God to Thee" while staring at print-outs of Ben Savage's new nose to increase the somber atmosphere...
 
JohnWD

JohnWD

Well-Known Member
Mike S said:
But unlike Tower of Terror the actual ride experience of Mermaid doesn't match up to what the queue would have you expect. Works better in DCA where the queue is more barebones so it's much more equal to the actual ride. In WDW it's like a bait and switch.
Click to expand...
I don't agree with you there. Disclaimer - I love the LM ride! At Disneyland, there are many rides that have no queue - people are lined up in the walkways. There can be a whole thread on why that is, but I appreciate the queues at WDW including the LM queue. Since this thread is derailed anyway, I'll include that the kids getting off LM (and the other FL rides) all appear to love the rides. A lot of people on this board have moved on and are not kids anymore.
 
B

Brian Swan

Well-Known Member
Goofyernmost said:
I am aware of that, I'm just trying to say that those things that people are complaining about are normal for any dark ride and have been since the first one existed. It makes me go back to the thought that when all of us first started going to a Disney park, be it DL or WDW, we were so enthralled by what we saw that we didn't notice the other parts that could easily have ruined our fantasy. We just didn't see them. Now we have become bored with the stuff we start to notice every little thing and try to relate it present times or present policy's or, worse yet, we somehow believe enough in "the magic" that we impose a denial of reality concerning the realities of the actual world we live in, which has to account for gravity and needing to support a structure by using walls, etc. Someone looks at a concept art, like the one for LM and don't see all those outside forces because they aren't needed in an animation, yet are upset if the show itself has to deal with that.

Think about all the things that people have complained about with LM alone. For example, Ariels hair looked unreal and didn't react like underwater hair should move. Well, duh, it isn't under water actually, so for all those complaining did they have any idea how to make it look like that when the physical surroundings cannot be duplicated without the actual elements, in this case water? I don't think that LM is the best I have ever seen, but, considering the topic and the diversity of environments that are depicted they did a pretty good job. To not consider the queue itself as a part of the overall experience is just to tight a focus on one part of a multi-faceted attraction. And the parts that they did initially screw up on, they fixed.

If you have read any of my other posts you will realize that I am not pixie dusted or a blind follower of the virtues of the Disney Company in how it relates to how the company is run. Here's what I see, a company that for a long time didn't do anything to plus an attraction, did, finally, create an entire undersea world in a dry as a bone show and ride and it isn't enough for people. It must be something that no Disney show had ever had and that is reality so precise that you weren't forced to think it is real. For years they relied on the people using their own imagination to fill in the blanks. The more that we are unable to see anything unless it is totally done for us the more we complain, the more we complain about something that actually did have a lot of expense and detail attached to, the less they are given the incentive to really get all concerned about that detail. It's never enough.
Click to expand...
I would argue that they HAVE done a very effective underwater environment in a "dry" building...
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
JohnWD said:
I don't agree with you there. Disclaimer - I love the LM ride! At Disneyland, there are many rides that have no queue - people are lined up in the walkways. There can be a whole thread on why that is, but I appreciate the queues at WDW including the LM queue. Since this thread is derailed anyway, I'll include that the kids getting off LM (and the other FL rides) all appear to love the rides. A lot of people on this board have moved on and are not kids anymore.
Click to expand...
"Kids like it" is nothing but a hollow excuse to try and deflect from clearly present issues. The attraction didn't succeed and this is a view widely shared even in the industry. It's okay to still enjoy the attraction, but trying to hide from creative shortcomings doesn't do anyone any favors.
 
Goofyernmost

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Brian Swan said:
I would argue that they HAVE done a very effective underwater environment in a "dry" building...
Click to expand...

I agree with that and if the Oriental Land Company owned WDW and was paying the bills it would be a lot better. But, they don't and considering the amount of attractions that they have created at WDW over the last 10 years, that one is one of the better ones. That is not saying that they couldn't be better, but, they aren't looking like they intend to change in the near future. With Tokyo they can go crazy and spend like a drunken sailor because they are not paying the bills all they are doing is collecting buckets of money to design the stuff. The type of ride dictates the lighting and since this cartoon recreation cannot be done the same way as that Japanese under the sea ride the lighting has to be different. Wasn't there an uproar because the lighting was to dark in LM at one time?

That is a shame, but, it is what is happening and, I will say once again, until people stop spending mega-bucks at WDW nothing is going to change. Talking about it will do no good, action is the only answer. Stop spending money there!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom