No fastpasses available today?

[luv]

If you only get 2 or 3 FPs and you have to wait longer in other lines for rides and M&Gs, what have you gained? You could always get 2 or 3 FPs and weren't waiting longer for SSE, HM, etc.

The onsite people gain nothing here and the offsite people are worse off than before.

It will give newbies the perception that staying in WDW hotels is advantageous. You will now be better off in a WDW hotel...but you won't be better off than you were before the whole thing rolled out.

I think it will totally increase hotel occupancy. But I wonder what many people will be saying when they go home. Just the other day I heard a couple arguing because the husband found out FPs could be booked in advance and the wife didn't know this and had either not done it or had put them in a non-WDW hotel. I was more interested in the argument because they had heavy British accents and I'd never heard a British couple fighting before, lol. But that's what they were arguing about. He was ed! And she was getting ed because it wasn't like she'd tried to do something wrong, so he had no business being mad at her (which I agreed with.)

 

[ParentsOf4]

I think you are very probably right. The problem is that having experienced the parks with FP, it is hard to imagine going through it without. I am not saying that waiting in standby is wrong or unreasonable in a park, but it isn't for me and just isn't my idea of a vacation. I just can't see paying more for, in my opinion anyways, less. So if this is the end goal to Disney then I will have to look somewhere different for vacations. It is sad though because we have had some great times and wonderful memories.

If you like FP, can plan ahead, and stay onsite, then FP+ will be fine for you.

If you don't stay onsite, then you may find it difficult to get another FP/FP+ for Soarin', Test Track, TSM, and possibly others.

Earlier, @flynnibus wrote "Everyone is talking here like if I don't have a fp.... I might As well go home". For some attractions, that's pretty much true. Soarin' nearly always has a 120-minute or longer wait every day for most of the day. At peak, Soarin' has a dreadful 10-to-1 merge ratio. Those in the Standby line will wait for hours while, literally, thousands walk past in the FP/FP+ line.

Standby lines are unusually long exactly because FP/FP+ allows thousands to experience attractions with short waits. The problem is that this encourages those who are familiar with the system to use ride capacity, capacity that would otherwise be available for others.

Soarin' opened in 2005. Since then, I've probably seen it 30 times, not once waiting in the Standby line. (I also have no idea what the TSM or Test Track Standby lines look like and haven't seen Peter Pan's Standby line in 10 years.)

FP encourages those who are familiar with the system to ride and ride again, nearly always at the expense of those who are not.

When @lentesta wrote that guests who use FP average only 2 per day, I smiled to myself. I usually have 2 FP in hand by 10 AM most days, by 11 AM on a bad day. I'm sure there are thousands of Orlando locals who are just like me.

FP+ will more evenly distribute wait times for onsite guests but offsite guests will suffer. I'm a DVC member. I'm going to receive FP+ and continue to ride Soarin', Test Track, TSM, Peter Pan, etc. with a short wait, despite having experienced them scores of times.

What would be better is to eliminate FP/FP+ completely. Force me and others like me into the same line with everyone else and I'm going to skip many attractions, instead carefully picking what I want to ride first thing in the morning before lines are too long. As a result, demand declines and Standby lines shrink for the most popular attractions. Instead of peaking at 120 minutes, lines now peak at 60 minutes and move steadily, making everyone in those lines feel better.

Only those truly desperate to ride certain attractions will be willing to sacrifice that amount of time to experience them. The rest of us will find something else to do. WDW has plenty of less popular attractions that peak at 30 minutes or less (pre FP+). Heck, some truly great attractions such as HM or POTC rarely exceed 30 minutes.

Any attraction with FP/FP+ will develop an abnormally long Standby line. Completely eliminate FP/FP+ lines and demand for popular attractions decreases. In the long run, everyone is better served by eliminating FP/FP+.

It's never going to happen. Corporate Disney can't advertise "no FastPass lines". FP+ is about marketing; not about actually improving guest experience.

 

[wdisney9000]

If you like FP, can plan ahead, and stay onsite, then FP+ will be fine for you.

If you don't stay onsite, then you may find it difficult to get another FP/FP+ for Soarin', Test Track, TSM, and possibly others.

Earlier, @flynnibus wrote "Everyone is talking here like if I don't have a fp.... I might As well go home". For some attractions, that's pretty much true. Soarin' nearly always has a 120-minute or longer every day for most of the day. At peak, Soarin' has a dreadful 10-to-1 merge ratio. Those in the Standby line will wait for hours while, literally, thousands walk past in the FP/FP+ line.

Standby lines are unusually long exactly because FP/FP+ allows thousands to experience attractions with short waits. The problem is that this encourages those who are familiar with the system to use ride capacity, capacity that would otherwise be available for others.

Soarin' opened in 2005. In that time, I've probably seen it 30 times, not once waiting in the Standby line. (I also have no idea what the TSM or Test Track Standby lines look like and haven't seen Peter Pan's Standby line in 10 years.)

FP encourages those who are familiar with the system to ride and ride again, nearly always at the expense of those who are not.

When @lentesta wrote that guests who use FP average only 2 per day, I smiled to myself. I usually have 2 FP in hand by 10 AM most days, by 11 AM on a bad day. I'm sure there are thousands of Orlando locals who are just like me.

FP+ will more evenly distribute wait times for onsite guests but offsite guests will suffer. I'm a DVC member. I'm going to receive FP+ and continue to ride Soarin', Test Track, TSM, Peter Pan, etc. with a short wait, despite having experienced them scores of times.

What would be better is to eliminate FP/FP+ completely. Force me and others like me into the same line with everyone else and I'm going to skip many attractions, instead carefully picking what I want to ride first thing in the morning before lines are too long. As a result, demand declines and Standby lines shrink for the most popular attractions. Instead of peaking at 120 minutes, lines now peak at 60 minutes and move steadily, making everyone in those lines feel better.

Only those truly desperate to ride certain attractions will be willing to sacrifice that amount of time to experience them. The rest of us will find something else to do. WDW has plenty of less popular attractions that peak at 30 minutes or less (pre FP+). Heck, some truly great attractions such as HM or POTC rarely exceed 30 minutes.

Any attraction with FP/FP+ will develop an abnormally long Standby line. Completely eliminate FP/FP+ lines and demand for popular attractions decreases. In the long run, everyone is better served by eliminating FP/FP+.

It's never going to happen. Corporate Disney can't advertise "no FastPass lines". FP+ is about marketing; not about actually improving guest experience.

Its painful to read such an accurate assessment of the current situation. I sometimes wonder if it would be better to just live in the bliss of ignorance when it comes to my WDW visits. Its too late though. Its the matrix and ive chose the red pill. all of us here have taken the red pill. At least Neo could dodge bullets and fly,.... damn. Lol.

Great post/breakdown from @ParentsOf4 as usual. Thx.

 

[RSoxNo1]

It looks like the 9:30 AM Toy Story issues and 11 AM Soarin/Test Track issues have improved. Toy Story has been around up until 11:30 or so and Soarin' and Test Track are available until around 2-3. It does sound like crowds are down from when the quicker distributions were taking place, but I would speculate that the "glitch" was at least partially true.

Toy Story Fastpasses were typically gone by noon most days, but there have been light days where they've last until 3 or 4. I've seen Soarin' and Test Track Fastpasses available between 4 and 5 on many days, although I don't recall Test Track being available that late since the overhaul.

It still seems like this is a very fluid situation, and I still maintain that the best usage of the Fastpass+ infrastructure is for same day reservations only (using the legacy distribution rules).

 

[janoimagine]

It still seems like this is a very fluid situation, and I still maintain that the best usage of the Fastpass+ infrastructure is for same day reservations only (using the legacy distribution rules).

I agree 100%, the only issue I see is the system crashing from all the overload of same day users. Disney can't even keep their own site's working consistently, while I would love, love, love for this to be the case, I doubt they have the horsepower on their servers to keep it stable.

I think the best I could hope for, (if they dont do a same day,) is for a 7 day advance.

 

[EvilQueen-T]

Yesterday for those already booked on a trip a new video with Edna Mode showed up on MDE as a training video for MM+. As of today when you call Disney they are telling you (depending on who you talk to) that MM+ will be full live 10/23 (some report being told instead that it's effective 28 days out from arrival for December check-ins). It sounds like they are doing system changes in prep for full live soon either way and I'd bet this is a screw up in the process of doing that... just a hunch!

i really hope your date is wrong since i'll be there the 22nd-24th sigh...it's a short trip and i really don't want to spend my whole trip frustrated from technical problems.

 

[awoogala]

It looks like the 9:30 AM Toy Story issues and 11 AM Soarin/Test Track issues have improved. Toy Story has been around up until 11:30 or so and Soarin' and Test Track are available until around 2-3. It does sound like crowds are down from when the quicker distributions were taking place, but I would speculate that the "glitch" was at least partially true.

Toy Story Fastpasses were typically gone by noon most days, but there have been light days where they've last until 3 or 4. I've seen Soarin' and Test Track Fastpasses available between 4 and 5 on many days, although I don't recall Test Track being available that late since the overhaul.

It still seems like this is a very fluid situation, and I still maintain that the best usage of the Fastpass+ infrastructure is for same day reservations only (using the legacy distribution rules).

I hate to be argumentative.. but if they can't make it stop freezing and crashing for us, weeks out from our trip, how could they possibly handle the amount of users on a "day of" schedule? That would be thousands of people, attacking the system, at the same moment. I just don't think they have the computer know how to manage that. It's barely working now.

 

[RSoxNo1]

It's possible they could keep 3. The docs I've seen all mention 2 FP+ limits at EP, DHS and AK, anywhere from 5 to 17% of operating days. There are options to increase FP+ capacity, such as moving resort guests' FP+ times into EMH. And Disney's already done one idea that's mentioned in the roadmap docs as a contingency: adding parade and character greetings to FP+. They could also limit CM and comp ticket FP+ allocations during holidays (maybe they've already done this)?

Now that I think of it, the changes to the GAC may have helped too. So it's possible they could keep 3. I'd heard that at attractions like TSMM, up to 25% of the attraction's capacity was GAC users at peak times. That's probably gone down.

There's nothing in the roadmap about limiting off-site guests from making advance FP+ reservations. What I've seen are limits on the number of popular attractions based on resort status. But I'm sure they're considering a lot of things.

Are you looking at the original documents for this? I assume things would have evolved a bit since then. I would also think adding FP+ to anything and everything also helps (although I believe that was largely in the original plans as well).

In short, adding more attractions will better help these numbers but that's 3-5 years away in the parks that need it the most.

 

[RSoxNo1]

If guests only averaged 2 fp previously... And almost 50% didn't use it at all... Maybe you should consider the perspective that Disney may not care that you don't get a fp.... And they move to the theory that a fp+ is an exclusive way to experience something.

Everyone is talking here like if I don't have a fp.... I might As well go home. Maybe your theory of how you visit the park is no longer how Disney envisions it..

We established that this is very likely the case. But once again, it doesn't mean that we as guests have to accept it. Ironically, I think Disneyland/DCA is better equipped from a capacity standpoint to handle Fastpass+, but the fan base is a bit more unified in how they'd react to something like this.

 

[steve2wdw]

We just got back from a WDW trip (10/20-10/25) and we found that all the actual wait times were much less than posted. The most extreme example was Star Tours where it said 20 minutes and we walked on. After exiting, the kids wanted to do it again, the sign had ticked up to 25 minutes and it was still a walk on. I kind of felt like either they didn't know how to estimate wait times yet with the new system (which doesn't entirely make sense considering you get the little lanyard with the red card from time to time whilst waiting in a queue) or they want to discourage people from standby. We did several waits that were in the range of the what you saw posted (45-60 minutes) and they all wound up being 20-40 minutes. Part of our willingness to try standbys is because we're an experienced Disney family and we would quite often look at a line and think "no way is the wait that long".

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far, away....OK, back in the 70's and early 80's, the tendency for Disney was to take the estimated wait time and add half, meaning a queue that was 30 minutes would be posted at 45 minutes. Psychologically, this would make the guest feel like they "beat" the system, and feel good about it. FP and those red tags, really changed all of that.

 

[NowInc]

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far, away....OK, back in the 70's and early 80's, the tendency for Disney was to take the estimated wait time and add half, meaning a queue that was 30 minutes would be posted at 45 minutes. Psychologically, this would make the guest feel like they "beat" the system, and feel good about it. FP and those red tags, really changed all of that.

However, a few people (myself included) have posted about how lately the "standby" time listed is actually set a LOT higher than the actual time. 20 minutes = a walk on (in some cases). I think the practice of "adding time" still exists...its just not as noticeable as seeing people pass by on fastpass makes even the shortest wait seem a lot longer.

 

[awoogala]

However, a few people (myself included) have posted about how lately the "standby" time listed is actually set a LOT higher than the actual time. 20 minutes = a walk on (in some cases). I think the practice of "adding time" still exists...its just not as noticeable as seeing people pass by on fastpass makes even the shortest wait seem a lot longer.

Which begs the question:
are they inflating "times" so people see it this year, know that next time, if they stay on property, they will get that MB, and skate past the lines with fp+?
Wouldn't be a bad way to fluff up the "need" for MB/fp+.
Imagine it's your first trip, you see all the fp+ people gliding past you, you look up, and see a 40 minute wait.. (even if it turns out to be 25-30 minutes, in your mind, that 40 minutes STICKS).
Next year, you plan on Disney and think.. hmm.. I should stay on property for that fp+... not a bad "viral" marketing scheme, huh?

 

[steve2wdw]

However, a few people (myself included) have posted about how lately the "standby" time listed is actually set a LOT higher than the actual time. 20 minutes = a walk on (in some cases). I think the practice of "adding time" still exists...its just not as noticeable as seeing people pass by on fastpass makes even the shortest wait seem a lot longer.

Yes....what was once standard practice around the resort, seems to be making a comeback. I too, last week, experienced this on Space Mountain. The wait time said 30 minutes and it was only about 8 minutes. I'd just used my FP+ and noticed that the Standby line seemed awfully short, so after my first ride, I noted the 30 minute posted wait, and figured I'd see if it was true (maybe Standby wasn't actually moving at all) for myself. Obviously, I was pleasantly surprised.

 

[JenniferS]

Which begs the question:
are they inflating "times" so people see it this year, know that next time, if they stay on property, they will get that MB, and skate past the lines with fp+?
Wouldn't be a bad way to fluff up the "need" for MB/fp+.
Imagine it's your first trip, you see all the fp+ people gliding past you, you look up, and see a 40 minute wait.. (even if it turns out to be 25-30 minutes, in your mind, that 40 minutes STICKS).
Next year, you plan on Disney and think.. hmm.. I should stay on property for that fp+... not a bad "viral" marketing scheme, huh?

Yeah, I think you're on to something here.
We were in the parks at the end of September, and with the exception of TSMM and Pooh, I felt that ALL of the Stand-by return times were grossly inflated - most especially, The Little Mermaid ride and Star Tours.

 

[lentesta]

Are you looking at the original documents for this? I assume things would have evolved a bit since then. I would also think adding FP+ to anything and everything also helps (although I believe that was largely in the original plans as well).

In short, adding more attractions will better help these numbers but that's 3-5 years away in the parks that need it the most.

The roadmap is a couple years old, but they're sticking to it remarkably faithfully. Things like FP+-exclusive character greetings, which I think were announced this year, have been in the roadmap for a long time.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Yeah, I think you're on to something here.
We were in the parks at the end of September, and with the exception of TSMM and Pooh, I felt that ALL of the Stand-by return times were grossly inflated - most especially, The Little Mermaid ride and Star Tours.

They are "quick picks" attractions.

 

[RSoxNo1]

The roadmap is a couple years old, but they're sticking to it remarkably faithfully. Things like FP+-exclusive character greetings, which I think were announced this year, have been in the roadmap for a long time.

When does construction start on that 3rd theater for Soarin'? Was that not in the $2 billion budget? (This sarcasm isn't directed at you, I know this was mentioned in the presentation).

 

[dhsaddict83]

If you like FP, can plan ahead, and stay onsite, then FP+ will be fine for you.

Standby lines are unusually long exactly because FP/FP+ allows thousands to experience attractions with short waits.
...
FP encourages those who are familiar with the system to ride and ride again, nearly always at the expense of those who are not.
...
What would be better is to eliminate FP/FP+ completely. Force me and others like me into the same line with everyone else and I'm going to skip many attractions, instead carefully picking what I want to ride first thing in the morning before lines are too long. As a result, demand declines and Standby lines shrink for the most popular attractions. Instead of peaking at 120 minutes, lines now peak at 60 minutes and move steadily, making everyone in those lines feel better.
...
Only those truly desperate to ride certain attractions will be willing to sacrifice that amount of time to experience them. The rest of us will find something else to do. WDW has plenty of less popular attractions that peak at 30 minutes or less (pre FP+).
...
Any attraction with FP/FP+ will develop an abnormally long Standby line. Completely eliminate FP/FP+ lines and demand for popular attractions decreases. In the long run, everyone is better served by eliminating FP/FP+.

It's never going to happen. Corporate Disney can't advertise "no FastPass lines". FP+ is about marketing; not about actually improving guest experience.

+1 to this. I'm sure others (not saying any names) will disagree here, but this really is the most viable solution to the current wait times problem, and yes, there's not a snowball's chance in an oven that Disney will ever erradicate FP/FP+. FP+ is here to stay (and I seriously doubt Disney will ever sell FP/FP+).

 

[Sped2424]

http://micechat.com/47066-leveraging-next-gen/
Article by micechat dissecting my magic plus. from what he is saying I am not liking the looks of things.

 

[Kman101]

The one bonus to this MyMagic+ crap is that I see more and more people realizing Disney is cheaping out by not building attractions. I think they're SLOOOOOOOWLY correcting this .... in 2014 we get a coaster that's been built for like 4 years, in 2015 .... ? in 2016 ..... ? in 2017 .... World of Pandora with 1 E-Ticket (and thankfully a sorely needed boat ride) that you know WDW was determined not to build but probably knew they had to.

I guess in 2015 we'll be lucky to get a Soarin' update and maybe a Star Tours update with new scenes added if that's still in the cards or was even true (I read SO much on here I can't always remember lol).

But let's shutter yet another building in Epcot (I know Figment's now not for sure closing, which leads to another problem ... an attraction in desperate need of an update but because the park has next to nothing and closed buildings, they really have no choice but to keep it open).

MM+ and FP+ aren't awful in theory, but the true reasoning behind it just bothers me and really says what Disney is all about, which hopefully more and more people realize.

It's too bad WDW doesn't have that community like Disneyland does. WDW should considering ALL the blogs and boards out there. But you have one group that's seen as awful because the truth is pointed out and the other is demeaned and called Pixie Dusters because they simply just enjoy Disney (and yes some DO blindly ignore problems). We need to unite .... but they probably wouldn't listen anyway.

I assume we'll hear about Star Wars Land in 2014 (I agree with that it was acquired in 2012 it's a 2 year window til we hear about anything), which should have it done by 2017. I'll honestly be amazed at this company if I see two immersive lands built at the same time. Hopefully 2015 and 2016 are spent updating Epcot and then after 2017 they can do other things to the park.

I bet Disney execs are cursing Universal for likely forcing their hand in building new things.