No fastpasses available today?

[DisneyCane]

Anecdotal evidence but I was just there the past mon-wed and the standby lines seemed normal. I noticed that fastpass would be unavailable earlier for Soarin', test track, TSMM and rock n' rollercoaster. Standby for all rides that I saw at all 4 parks but 'Soarin, Test Track and TSMM were light in the morning, a little longer mid day and pretty short later in the day near closing.

I was able to do EE, Dinosaur and Safari in 1 hour before closing all standby one day and Tower of Terror, Rock n' rollercoaster and Star Tours in 1 hour before closing another day. The same day after AK I went to Epcot in the evening and did TT with a 30 minute standby.

It almost seems like the FP+ people are just riding with their FP and not going for re-rides in standby.

 

[doctornick]

It almost seems like the FP+ people are just riding with their FP and not going for re-rides in standby.

I think that's quite possibly going to be the trend going forward. IMHO, the people who are "new" to FP/FP+ -- the groups of people who previously did not use FP at all or perhaps rarely used it -- will typically view it as an quick alternative to standby and do it for their own time on a ride. They won't as a whole behave like superusers of FP who would ride the same rides repeatedly, using the efficiency of FP to its maximal advantage by bypassing the standby line as much as possible (only using standby in the AM or other low wait time periods).

I'll be curious to see how it ends up in practice once everything rolls out and things become stable.

 

[natatomic]

DVC also gives these out periodically - especially after a sales presentation although the DVC ones are limited 3FP's during a 3 day period. The fact that these are being handed out speaks volumes to the brokeness of the system, My assumption had been that CM's were giving out the paper FP vouchers that have shown up recently when a ride goes 101 or the MickeyHead only reads white for everyone

This was from a while ago, but I never saw anyone correct it, so I just have to speak up! The tickets that the DVC sales reps give out are NOT the same thing that the previous poster was talking about. What he was talking about were "FP Key Cards," and they've been around for YEARS - waaaaaay before MM+. They are only good on the day they are printed and only good at the park at which they are printed, but they allow guests with "broken" tickets to get FPs (in the exact same manner and with the exact same rules as a park ticket) for the rest of their day in that park without having to backtrack to and from GR (instead, they just get them fixed on the way out of that park or on the way in at the next park). The Key Cards are printed fresh everyday by GR, then distributed to the manager of each FP attraction, and the manager then gives them to the CM(s) who open FP distribution in the morning. The CM broke no rules in giving these tickets out, otherwise management never would have given them to the CM in the first place. Nor would GR have given them to management, nor would they have even printed them out! Believe me, there were many days where the old turnstiles would go offline, and they would have to just let guests into the park without scanning the magnetic strip (or sometimes they'd let people in without scanning them just to get guests in quickly if the lines were too long at the entrance). Then THOUSANDS of guests would receive the "This ticket was not used for admission to X park," at the FP machines resulting in us depleting our stack of Key Cards within a few hours. Trust me, this isn't anything new because of MM+. The system may be broken, but this is far from being an issue unique to these bands.

This thread is so very long and though I have read most of it, what has been the general consensus with regards to how many fast passes, not FP+, but the standard circa 2012 FP one party of say, 4, could have acquired in a given day within the MK for example? Assuming they all want to ride everything together and don't plan to park hop. I'm not saying I like the FP+ limit of 3 attractions, but is there time in the day for 6 standard FP's? If so, I can't see how the clock doesn't tick too fast for that to happen.

I never saw any official data on this, but when management first started hinting about the FP+ (even before we started enforcing the one hour return window), they kept on saying that their "studies" showed that the average guest received only .9 FPs PER DAY! I NEVER understood how that was possible given how often I saw guests with stacks and stacks of FPs in their hands. Many of you have even commented on here how you used to be able to get upwards of 6-10 FPs a day! Granted, I know there were many guests who did not understand FP or thought it cost money and therefore never got any, so that would obviously bring the average down; but I fail to see how that could still result in the average visitor collecting less than 1 FP. But honestly, this .9 FP info was told to me by MANY managers in MANY areas. So either it is somehow true, or it's just Disney propaganda being crammed into our heads so that way us front-line CMs can pass along to the upset guests that the new FP+ is for the "greater good," now that we're "spreading the FP wealth." Lol.

That being said, no wonder they have to add FP to attractions that don't need it, as well as to M&Gs and parade and fireworks viewings. How else could they triple the number of total number of FPs given out and still maintain that golden 4-to-1 FP to Standby ratio?

 

[orky8]

Granted, I know there were many guests who did not understand FP or thought it cost money and therefore never got any, so that would obviously bring the average down; but I fail to see how that could still result in the average visitor collecting less than 1 FP. But honestly, this .9 FP info was told to me by MANY managers in MANY areas. So either it is somehow true, or it's just Disney propaganda being crammed into our heads so that way us front-line CMs can pass along to the upset guests that the new FP+ is for the "greater good," now that we're "spreading the FP wealth."

No, this is absolutely probably the case. And, also why many die-hard pixie snorters are so mad. Over time, most repeat visitors have figured out how to collect many, many fastpasses. Meanwhile, most first time visitors (of which there are many) don't have a clue was fastpass is and would collect none. YES, FP+ will help even the playing field. Even if the newbies are not smart enough to realize that FP for Space Mountain is a good idea, because Disney will give them a skip the line pass for HM, Pirates, and Stitch, the experienced visitors are going to now have to wait in longer lines for many attractions, and only get to skip the lines for three attractions. Is it fair? Maybe. The bigger question really should be is this smart of Disney? Most companies go out of their way to keep their best customers happy. Disney is now penalizing its most loyal customers. And, this isn't like the GAC abuse. These people didn't cheat the system, but played by the rules -- they simply figured out how to use the rules to maximize their return. I don't know how this whole thing was sold to the board (OK, actually, I do), but their oversight and allowing this system to go forward was very short-sighted. But, I would expect nothing less from an executive team that fundamentally doesn't understand their product, but instead only looks at the park from a revenue generating point of view. Compare this to Apple's latest marketing angle (whether true or not) -- that they make products they want to use. Could you imagine a Disney exec saying we make parks we want to visit? Have they ever visited the park?

 

[natatomic]

Could you imagine a Disney exec saying we make parks we want to visit? Have they ever visited the park?

Of course they have! With a VIP Tour guide to drive them around from ride to ride backstage and then give them immediate and unlimited access to FP line at every attraction! Just like every other guest at Disney...right?

 

[ford91exploder]

This was from a while ago, but I never saw anyone correct it, so I just have to speak up! The tickets that the DVC sales reps give out are NOT the same thing that the previous poster was talking about. What he was talking about were "FP Key Cards," and they've been around for YEARS - waaaaaay before MM+. They are only good on the day they are printed and only good at the park at which they are printed, but they allow guests with "broken" tickets to get FPs (in the exact same manner and with the exact same rules as a park ticket) for the rest of their day in that park without having to backtrack to and from GR (instead, they just get them fixed on the way out of that park or on the way in at the next park). The Key Cards are printed fresh everyday by GR, then distributed to the manager of each FP attraction, and the manager then gives them to the CM(s) who open FP distribution in the morning. The CM broke no rules in giving these tickets out, otherwise management never would have given them to the CM in the first place. Nor would GR have given them to management, nor would they have even printed them out! Believe me, there were many days where the old turnstiles would go offline, and they would have to just let guests into the park without scanning the magnetic strip (or sometimes they'd let people in without scanning them just to get guests in quickly if the lines were too long at the entrance). Then THOUSANDS of guests would receive the "This ticket was not used for admission to X park," at the FP machines resulting in us depleting our stack of Key Cards within a few hours. Trust me, this isn't anything new because of MM+. The system may be broken, but this is far from being an issue unique to these bands.



I never saw any official data on this, but when management first started hinting about the FP+ (even before we started enforcing the one hour return window), they kept on saying that their "studies" showed that the average guest received only .9 FPs PER DAY! I NEVER understood how that was possible given how often I saw guests with stacks and stacks of FPs in their hands. Many of you have even commented on here how you used to be able to get upwards of 6-10 FPs a day! Granted, I know there were many guests who did not understand FP or thought it cost money and therefore never got any, so that would obviously bring the average down; but I fail to see how that could still result in the average visitor collecting less than 1 FP. But honestly, this .9 FP info was told to me by MANY managers in MANY areas. So either it is somehow true, or it's just Disney propaganda being crammed into our heads so that way us front-line CMs can pass along to the upset guests that the new FP+ is for the "greater good," now that we're "spreading the FP wealth." Lol.

That being said, no wonder they have to add FP to attractions that don't need it, as well as to M&Gs and parade and fireworks viewings. How else could they triple the number of total number of FPs given out and still maintain that golden 4-to-1 FP to Standby ratio?

Thanks for explaining how those REALLY work, For someone who is not a CM (but IS an engineer) we look at these systems in a 'black box' mode apply stimulus, record response if X stimulus gives Y response then it uses same internal logic - key issue is Disney has given so little information we are left with 'reverse engineering' everything TWDC does and says to attempt to get at the nugget of truth at the core.

 

[mthornto]

With Pop Century giving out Magic hands and not KTTW cards, does this signal the end of double dipping between Fast pass and Fast pass+?

 

[Weather_Lady]

With Pop Century giving out Magic hands and not KTTW cards, does this signal the end of double dipping between Fast pass and Fast pass+?

Yes. Even those who ask for KTTW cards instead of MagicBands will get cards that can't be used in legacy Fastpass machines. For offsite guests who are dependent on those machines right now, this should be a real boon.

 

[ABQ]

....... I NEVER understood how that was possible given how often I saw guests with stacks and stacks of FPs in their hands.

I guess I'm one of the people that skewed the number in favour of managements figures. I never found it possible to amass stacks and stacks of fastpasses and cannot figure out how people were able to when you could not have two fast passes associated with a single admission ticket to the park at one time. I guess my question is, even though it's moot with the obvious forthcoming demise of the current FP system, how to people gather stacks of fastpasses? I think I see how 3 FP+ seems reasonable as in my estimation, I was never able to get more than 3 old school Fast Passes in a day anyway?

 

[RandomPrincess]

I guess I'm one of the people that skewed the number in favour of managements figures. I never found it possible to amass stacks and stacks of fastpasses and cannot figure out how people were able to when you could not have two fast passes associated with a single admission ticket to the park at one time. I guess my question is, even though it's moot with the obvious forthcoming demise of the current FP system, how to people gather stacks of fastpasses? I think I see how 3 FP+ seems reasonable as in my estimation, I was never able to get more than 3 old school Fast Passes in a day anyway?

Before the rule changes you could return at ANY time past the stat time so some people would gather up all their FPs throughout the day and use them all at once. Also there were always machines that weren't linked to the main system and if you knew which ones they were/are you can get multiples at the same time. For example Mickey in TS and the Princess FTH are not linked to the system so you could have both of the M&Gs and another FP at the same time.

 

[ABQ]

Before the rule changes you could return at ANY time past the stat time so some people would gather up all their FPs throughout the day and use them all at once. Also there were always machines that weren't linked to the main system and if you knew which ones they were/are you can get multiples at the same time. For example Mickey in TS and the Princess FTH are not linked to the system so you could have both of the M&Gs and another FP at the same time.

Would you consider the process you outlined above to be someone working outside how the system was designed to work though? I don't have a big problem with it, it ever impacted my enjoyment if this is how people worked the system, but I doubt that's how it was designed to be used. Notwithstanding the ability to do what is done above, is that the only way to amass large numbers of fastpasses? Further, one common issue with the FP+ system is that people state they cannot enjoy their time as they must preplan everything. Though gatherting FP's on the day one arrives at a park like above, isn't that also a little lacking in spontaneity? Run in, gather fastpasses, wait till the window expires, grab more, lather rinse repeat, then retrace all your steps using the fastpasses gathered throughout the day.

 

[RandomPrincess]

Would you consider the process you outlined above to be someone working outside how the system was designed to work though? I don't have a big problem with it, it ever impacted my enjoyment if this is how people worked the system, but I doubt that's how it was designed to be used. Notwithstanding the ability to do what is done above, is that the only way to amass large numbers of fastpasses? Further, one common issue with the FP+ system is that people state they cannot enjoy their time as they must preplan everything. Though gatherting FP's on the day one arrives at a park like above, isn't that also a little lacking in spontaneity? Run in, gather fastpasses, wait till the window expires, grab more, lather rinse repeat, then retrace all your steps using the fastpasses gathered throughout the day.

Another way to get a" handful of FPs" is guest services. They sometime give them out when people complain. They let a certain # of people go to the front of any line.

As to the rest I never worked the system this way so I couldn't say.

 

[flynnibus]

Would you consider the process you outlined above to be someone working outside how the system was designed to work though?

Without falling into a 'FP' rathole... the whole premise relied upon being able to return at any time - and not just during the 1hr window printed on the ticket. Not returning during the time window is not how the system was designed and was instead gaming Disney's guest recovery decisions. Once they started enforcing return times, the ability to amass FP tickets and just use then when you pleased greatly diminished.

 

[jklakeview]

I went last year at an off peak time (mid Nov and not NJ week) and the line for the fp machine at TSMM was like an hour wait. The fast passes were gone by about 11:00. This always happens with this ride. I've noticed that by 1:00 that Soarin and Test Track seem gone. This is much earlier than last year when it was around 3:00 for both. As long as I can get up and get there early enough to ride each one 1 time a day I'm fine. If not, then I would get soarin and do single rider on Test Track. It is MUCH better than when they first started doing FP+ I, by the way, am not a fan of the new system at all, but it seems to be improving a little.

 

[asianway]

Another way to get a" handful of FPs" is guest services. They sometime give them out when people complain. They let a certain # of people go to the front of any line.

As to the rest I never worked the system this way so I couldn't say.

There used to be a button on the machine you could press to get it to spit out a free FP from what I've heard but it was locked down at some point

 

[Rob562]

There used to be a button on the machine you could press to get it to spit out a free FP from what I've heard but it was locked down at some point

Those override buttons normally require a key to unlock first, but CMs sometimes accidentally (or purposely) leave them unlocked after using it.

Of course if you're caught using it, you risk other problems if caught.

-Rob

 

[JimboJones123]

This was from a while ago, but I never saw anyone correct it, so I just have to speak up! The tickets that the DVC sales reps give out are NOT the same thing that the previous poster was talking about. What he was talking about were "FP Key Cards," and they've been around for YEARS - waaaaaay before MM+. They are only good on the day they are printed and only good at the park at which they are printed, but they allow guests with "broken" tickets to get FPs (in the exact same manner and with the exact same rules as a park ticket) for the rest of their day in that park without having to backtrack to and from GR (instead, they just get them fixed on the way out of that park or on the way in at the next park). The Key Cards are printed fresh everyday by GR, then distributed to the manager of each FP attraction, and the manager then gives them to the CM(s) who open FP distribution in the morning. The CM broke no rules in giving these tickets out, otherwise management never would have given them to the CM in the first place. Nor would GR have given them to management, nor would they have even printed them out! Believe me, there were many days where the old turnstiles would go offline, and they would have to just let guests into the park without scanning the magnetic strip (or sometimes they'd let people in without scanning them just to get guests in quickly if the lines were too long at the entrance). Then THOUSANDS of guests would receive the "This ticket was not used for admission to X park," at the FP machines resulting in us depleting our stack of Key Cards within a few hours. Trust me, this isn't anything new because of MM+. The system may be broken, but this is far from being an issue unique to these bands.



I never saw any official data on this, but when management first started hinting about the FP+ (even before we started enforcing the one hour return window), they kept on saying that their "studies" showed that the average guest received only .9 FPs PER DAY! I NEVER understood how that was possible given how often I saw guests with stacks and stacks of FPs in their hands. Many of you have even commented on here how you used to be able to get upwards of 6-10 FPs a day! Granted, I know there were many guests who did not understand FP or thought it cost money and therefore never got any, so that would obviously bring the average down; but I fail to see how that could still result in the average visitor collecting less than 1 FP. But honestly, this .9 FP info was told to me by MANY managers in MANY areas. So either it is somehow true, or it's just Disney propaganda being crammed into our heads so that way us front-line CMs can pass along to the upset guests that the new FP+ is for the "greater good," now that we're "spreading the FP wealth." Lol.

That being said, no wonder they have to add FP to attractions that don't need it, as well as to M&Gs and parade and fireworks viewings. How else could they triple the number of total number of FPs given out and still maintain that golden 4-to-1 FP to Standby ratio?

So.... from .9 fastpasses to 3.9 fast passes for 1/3 of the guests.. .

That explains it.

 

[allgiggles]

I guess I'm one of the people that skewed the number in favour of managements figures. I never found it possible to amass stacks and stacks of fastpasses and cannot figure out how people were able to when you could not have two fast passes associated with a single admission ticket to the park at one time. I guess my question is, even though it's moot with the obvious forthcoming demise of the current FP system, how to people gather stacks of fastpasses? I think I see how 3 FP+ seems reasonable as in my estimation, I was never able to get more than 3 old school Fast Passes in a day anyway?

We didn't necessarily gather a stack of FP's at one time (though there were times we had 2 or 3 at once), but we always used 6+ at MK in a day. It is/was quite possible to hold more than one at a time without breaking any rules on the legacy FP system (the system only knew when you *pulled* a FP -- it had no way of knowing when you *used* a FP since you only handed it to a CM in line where it got added to a stack of FP's in the CM's hand.) The time you were eligible to get another FP was printed at the bottom of the FP ticket. It was usually 2 hours out but sometimes it was less if the return time for the attraction was less than 2 hours away. So if we pulled a FP for Space Mountain at a 9:00 rope drop, our return time might have been 10:15 (just for the sake of the explanation) and that would have been the time we could also pull another FP. So at 10:15, we'd pull a FP for another ride *before* getting in line for Space Mountain. Completely within the rules. That would be our pattern for the day -- always pull a FP for a new ride before getting in line for the current FP ride. It was a very easy and efficient (and legal) way to get in a lot of rides (particularly at MK) without waiting in long lines -- even in late June. We're one of the families that will now wait in longer lines and get on fewer attractions than we have in the past if the current rules for FP+ stay in place.

 

[stevehousse]

Just an FYI update for this week, so far crowds have been moderate with not too bad of wait times. FP (legacy) has been available most of the day, usually about an hour or 2 later. Soarin didn't run out of fp until about 5pm today.

Also, I have several times changed FP times to be an hour later than my scheduled time to accommodate us not being close enough to the said ride. All have worked flawlessly! My magic band has had no issues at all...

 

[stevehousse]

PS: I only had to use legacy FP once...