NextGen / FP+ / Magic Band. The official truth starts to appear

[dhall]

Actually, queue length is one of the easiest things they can implement in the NextGen system.The system doesn't need to be able to track someone as they wind their way through a queue. They only need to know the start and end times of their wait.

The end of the queue is a fixed point, but the start isn't, especially once the queue extends past the switchbacks. At that point, the end of the queue is out on the sidewalk somewhere, so there's no place to put the RFID reader. I never really trusted the posted times to begin with -- that the last person measured took 45 minutes to get through the queue tells me how long the line was 45 minutes ago (or more), not how long the line is now. I think the only way to get an estimate of the queue time is to count the number of people in the queue and divide by the ride capacity, but you could estimate by measuring the physical length of the queue (past the switchbacks, since the switchback distance can be presumed to be already known) and assuming a typical guest/linear foot conversion.

 

[lazyboy97o]

There's no indication that Disney will "track" anyone anyway. The technology being put in place would give them the potential to do so technically, but no-one has shown that they have any intention or any reason to actually do so.

Also, it seems that the tracking would only really be of those who opt-in to the MagicBand program. And unless it is all or nothing, I would also image it would be prudent to follow the smartphone app model where one must enable location services for each app, meaning the track is not on by default but something the end user enables. Just consider the outcry if even an app all about tracker automatically enabled location services without prompting the user.

 

[flynnibus]

Actually, queue length is one of the easiest things they can implement in the NextGen system.The system doesn't need to be able to track someone as they wind their way through a queue. They only need to know the start and end times of their wait.

All it takes is two readers that can read the "broadcasting" portion of the band, one at the entrance to the queue and one at the front of the line. Calibrate the readers so they only detect bands within a foot or two, and voila, you've got a system that can calculate the wait times of most band-wearing Guests who enter the line.

Sure, it'll get some mis-reads of bands that were grabbed by one reader and not the other (Guests who approached the entrance but then turned around and left, or a Guest who happened to have their arms raised over their head as they walked past the waist-high reader), but an intelligent programmer can have the system ignore those "outliers".

Or simpler.. install the reader in the ceiling aiming down.. creating a vertical plane that doesn't have that problem

A quicker way to calculate the wait time is to measure how many people are in the queue and what the ride's operating capacity is.

The problem with measuring someone's wait by start and finish is it only tells you what the wait WAS recently. Think about it.. if it's an hour wait.. your wait time is always an hour behind. If you measure how many people are getting into the line.. then measure how many were grouped.. you know exactly (+/- error) the # of people in the queue. Then measure the rate at which people exit the ride to get the ride's current operating capacity.. and you get a very good wait estimate that shows your wait 'right now', not what it was recently.

The problem is not every person is really individually tagged. You still have Dad carrying everyone's tickets.. you don't have everyone necessarily wearing a band individually, etc.

But as you say.. you can use the bands to measure 'lots of flik cards' without actually handing them out.

 

[ParentsOf4]

There's no indication that Disney will "track" anyone anyway. The technology being put in place would give them the potential to do so technically, but no-one has shown that they have any intention or any reason to actually do so.

Since this thread is titled, “NextGen / FP+ / Magic Band. The official truth starts to appear” let’s consider Iger’s letter to Rep. Markey since it contains previously undisclosed MagicBand information. However, before we do so, let’s also recognize two points.

First, the Rep. Markey and Iger letters were written for public consumption. They were not meant to objectively ask questions or openly answer them. Both letters were intended as means of scoring points with the public.

Second, corporations are not journalists attempting to objectively report facts. They publish propaganda intended to show themselves in the most favorable light possible. There is nothing wrong with this but the point needs to be remembered when reading anything they publish. They present only their side of the story.

Iger’s letter includes the following:

Guest’s personal data is not stored in the MagicBand. The MagicBand is not GPS-based and does not enable collection of continuous location signals. The long-range readers will be in specific locations for the purpose of providing better service to our guests.

Guests can participate in MyMagic+ and visit the park without using the MagicBand by choosing a card instead. The card contains a short-range chip whose location cannot be detected by the long-range readers stationed in the park. We also plan to provide the option of such guests to use the Fast Pass system by simply basic contact information (name and email address). As is also true for parties using MyMagic+, the system would not require separate email addresses for other members of the guest’s party.

We will not share location information collected in connection with the MagicBand throughout The Walt Disney Company without the consent of the guest.

Let’s start with the obvious. It’s clear that Disney intends to collect “location information”.

Now, let’s examine each sentence.

Guest’s personal data is not stored in the MagicBand.

Accurate. A good technical and, for reasons of security, practical approach.

The MagicBand is not GPS-based and does not enable collection of continuous location signals.

Accurate but incomplete. Disney will be collecting "location information" on its guests. Any software engineer will tell you it's impractical to store information on a "continuous" basis. Discrete collection points have to be established in order to populate a database. "Mr. Smith entered the theme park at 9 AM. Mr Smith entered the Peter Pan queue at 9:30 AM. etc." We could guess where Disney intends to collect such information but, from an implementation perspective, this information must be gathered at discrete times and discrete locations.

The long-range readers will be in specific locations for the purpose of providing better service to our guests.

Accurate but incomplete. There will be long-range readers; they will be in specific locations (thank goodness there are no roving long-range readers); they will be used to provide guests with better service. There also will be short-range readers deployed in numerous locations and the information will be used for additional reasons. Doesn't it, for example, make sense to use readers to detect guests that have entered restricted areas? Of course, if you consider this part of "providing better service" than I suppose pretty much anything could be defined as "providing better service to our guests."

Guests can participate in MyMagic+ and visit the park without using the MagicBand by choosing a card instead.

Accurate. Guests have the option of MagicBands or RFID cards. It appears MagicBands will be the default media for onsite guests and AP holders but it should be possible to opt-out of MagicBands. MagicBands will be optional and, in my opinion, will remain optional for the foreseeable future.

From a practical perspective, this might be one of Disney's biggest uphill battles, getting people to wear MagicBands. IMHO, this has nothing to do with tracking but instead numerous personal reasons such as comfort. If Disney wants to see its attendance plummet, just force guests to wear MagicBands. There always will be a segment of the public that will not want to wear them.

The card contains a short-range chip whose location cannot be detected by the long-range readers stationed in the park.

Accurate but incomplete. The cards cannot be read by today's long-range readers. But they can be detected by short-range readers that will be deployed at numerous data collection points. Disney's ability to collect "location information" is limited only by how many short-range readers they decide to deploy and current technology. As the technology improves and as Disney identifies needs, Disney reasonably can be expected to upgrade its technology and deploy more "location information" readers.

We also plan to provide the option of such guests to use the Fast Pass system by simply basic contact information (name and email address).

Accurate but incomplete. Use of FP+ requires people to sign up for MM+ and agree to its "Terms and Conditions", including the use of RFID technology. Once Disney has your name, email address, and your acknowledgement that RFID technology can be used, they have pretty much all the information needed to generate a complete profile on you.

As is also true for parties using MyMagic+, the system would not require separate email addresses for other members of the guest’s party.

Accurate. It seems impractical to require providing email addresses for every guest. Even today, there are millions without email addresses. However, anyone signing up online for MM+ should have an email address so it's reasonable to expect Disney to ask that person for their email address.

We will not share location information collected in connection with the MagicBand throughout The Walt Disney Company without the consent of the guest.

Accurate but incomplete. "location information" will be collected for MagicBands. However, there is nothing special about the RFID cards that prevent less-accurate "location information" to be gathered as well. And, as already mentioned, as technology improves and if the business need arises, it's reasonable to expect Disney to improve the "location information" it collects.

I realize some will disagree with the above analysis. Rather than attacking me, I encourage you to present your own analysis of Iger's letter. I'm truly interested in reading other people's interpretation, less so in having to defend attacks on my interpretation. Remember, I'm presenting only one view. Let's hear your view.

 

[flynnibus]

Accurate but incomplete. "location information" will be collected for MagicBands. However, there is nothing special about the RFID cards that prevent less-accurate "location information" to be gathered as well. And, as already mentioned, as technology improves and if the business need arises, it's reasonable to expect Disney to improve the "location information" it collects.

Your post is predicated on the idea they will use the RFID cards read at a distance - rather than restricting the RFID card to be read only via 'touch to..' type systems. If they don't read them at distance without your interaction - your entire concern falls apart and it becomes essentially the same type of 'location data' that they've always had about you if you don't use MagicBands.

I think it's technically possible to read the RFID cards at a distance - but that doesn't conclude Disney intends to. If they don't, most of the concerns you listed as 'incomplete' in your post go away and his letter becomes much more accurate than you make it to be.

While RFID can be made to be read at a distance, conversely it can be made to be restricted only being read at a near distance. If Disney chooses the later - than not only does it become not a choice to not read RFID card holders autonomously.. it becomes technically unfeasible.

Now that the RFID ticket media is in the wild.. hopefully some of the RFID community will do some investigation on what their actual capabilities are.

 

[brettf22]

Just ran across this article about the Washington Nationals implementing an RFID-based ticket system. A lot of parallels - swipe to enter, swipe to pay, data collection, targeted offers, even privacy concerns. The article even references Disney's efforts.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...db-11e2-b99e-6baf4ebe42df_story.html?hpid=z12

 

[flynnibus]

I guess Disney isn't so unique in trying this...

“Strategically, they’re at the front,” said Richard Pinnick, the head of global business development for London-based Fortress GB, which built the team’s technology platform after installing similar systems for more than half of England’s Premier League soccer teams. “Others have thought this way. Very few clubs have said, ‘I’m not just talking about this, I want to do it, and I want to do it meaningfully.’ Financially, operationally, they’re engineering their entire business around it.”

...after installing similar systems for more than half of England’s Premier League soccer teams...

And where has the outcry been?

 

[sshindel]

I guess Disney isn't so unique in trying this...
...after installing similar systems for more than half of England’s Premier League soccer teams...
And where has the outcry been?

Uh oh, I'd better get to the grocery store. I think there is going to be a run on aluminum foil for hat making in the near future. I'm almost out of my current roll, and I'm probably going to have some leftovers to wrap up tonight...

 

[RandomPrincess]

When I used to play Roller Coaster Tycoon I would randomly pick up guest and drop them in the lake. Maybe that's what they are planning?

I would throw the disgruntled guests in the water. Quick way to get your ratings back up.

 

[MattM]

Second, corporations are not journalists attempting to objectively report facts. They publish propaganda intended to show themselves in the most favorable light possible. There is nothing wrong with this but the point needs to be remembered when reading anything they publish. They present only their side of the story.

To be fair, neither is any member of Congress.

 

[dhall]

I would throw the disgruntled guests in the water. Quick way to get your ratings back up.

Call me old school, but I build parks with few dissatisfied guests.

 

[shipley731]

I would throw the disgruntled guests in the water. Quick way to get your ratings back up.

I usually would just pick up the disgruntled guests & put them outside the entrance. If they kept coming back inside, they got thrown in the water.

 

[Monty]

Since this thread is titled, “NextGen / FP+ / Magic Band. The official truth starts to appear” let’s consider Iger’s letter to Rep. Markey since it contains previously undisclosed MagicBand information. However, before we do so, let’s also recognize two points.

First, the Rep. Markey and Iger letters were written for public consumption. They were not meant to objectively ask questions or openly answer them. Both letters were intended as means of scoring points with the public.

Second, corporations are not journalists attempting to objectively report facts. They publish propaganda intended to show themselves in the most favorable light possible. There is nothing wrong with this but the point needs to be remembered when reading anything they publish. They present only their side of the story.

Iger’s letter includes the following:

Let’s start with the obvious. It’s clear that Disney intends to collect “location information”.

Now, let’s examine each sentence.

Accurate. A good technical and, for reasons of security, practical approach.

Accurate but incomplete. Disney will be collecting "location information" on its guests. Any software engineer will tell you it's impractical to store information on a "continuous" basis. Discrete collection points have to be established in order to populate a database. "Mr. Smith entered the theme park at 9 AM. Mr Smith entered the Peter Pan queue at 9:30 AM. etc." We could guess where Disney intends to collect such information but, from an implementation perspective, this information must be gathered at discrete times and discrete locations.

Accurate but incomplete. There will be long-range readers; they will be in specific locations (thank goodness there are no roving long-range readers); they will be used to provide guests with better service. There also will be short-range readers deployed in numerous locations and the information will be used for additional reasons. Doesn't it, for example, make sense to use readers to detect guests that have entered restricted areas? Of course, if you consider this part of "providing better service" than I suppose pretty much anything could be defined as "providing better service to our guests."

Accurate. Guests have the option of MagicBands or RFID cards. It appears MagicBands will be the default media for onsite guests and AP holders but it should be possible to opt-out of MagicBands. MagicBands will be optional and, in my opinion, will remain optional for the foreseeable future.

From a practical perspective, this might be one of Disney's biggest uphill battles, getting people to wear MagicBands. IMHO, this has nothing to do with tracking but instead numerous personal reasons such as comfort. If Disney wants to see its attendance plummet, just force guests to wear MagicBands. There always will be a segment of the public that will not want to wear them.

Accurate but incomplete. The cards cannot be read by today's long-range readers. But they can be detected by short-range readers that will be deployed at numerous data collection points. Disney's ability to collect "location information" is limited only by how many short-range readers they decide to deploy and current technology. As the technology improves and as Disney identifies needs, Disney reasonably can be expected to upgrade its technology and deploy more "location information" readers.

Accurate but incomplete. Use of FP+ requires people to sign up for MM+ and agree to its "Terms and Conditions", including the use of RFID technology. Once Disney has your name, email address, and your acknowledgement that RFID technology can be used, they have pretty much all the information needed to generate a complete profile on you.

Accurate. It seems impractical to require providing email addresses for every guest. Even today, there are millions without email addresses. However, anyone signing up online for MM+ should have an email address so it's reasonable to expect Disney to ask that person for their email address.

Accurate but incomplete. "location information" will be collected for MagicBands. However, there is nothing special about the RFID cards that prevent less-accurate "location information" to be gathered as well. And, as already mentioned, as technology improves and if the business need arises, it's reasonable to expect Disney to improve the "location information" it collects.

I realize some will disagree with the above analysis. Rather than attacking me, I encourage you to present your own analysis of Iger's letter. I'm truly interested in reading other people's interpretation, less so in having to defend attacks on my interpretation. Remember, I'm presenting only one view. Let's hear your view.

"Location information" is not "tracking".

Having equipment that notes when you enter a particular attraction or queue is "location information". Tracking is programming software to monitor a specific individual at every data collection point and convolve a series of locations and associated times into a comprehensive track of their movements.

My original statement stands:

There's no indication that Disney will "track" anyone anyway. The technology being put in place would give them the potential to do so technically, but no-one has shown that they have any intention or any reason to actually do so.

 

[neoshinok]

I usually would just pick up the disgruntled guests & put them outside the entrance. If they kept coming back inside, they got thrown in the water.

TDO is taking notes... 'Hmm something to consider'...

 

[Virtual Toad]

The end of the queue is a fixed point, but the start isn't, especially once the queue extends past the switchbacks. At that point, the end of the queue is out on the sidewalk somewhere, so there's no place to put the RFID reader. I never really trusted the posted times to begin with -- that the last person measured took 45 minutes to get through the queue tells me how long the line was 45 minutes ago (or more), not how long the line is now. I think the only way to get an estimate of the queue time is to count the number of people in the queue and divide by the ride capacity, but you could estimate by measuring the physical length of the queue (past the switchbacks, since the switchback distance can be presumed to be already known) and assuming a typical guest/linear foot conversion.

You have to think that this is exactly how they determined wait times pre-Fastpass. You could pretty much figure out a given ride's wait time simply by looking at the length of the queue. We used to ride the TTA just so we could "size up" the wait time at Space Mountain my checking out the interior queue.

How did we ever manage a day at the parks back in the stone age without smart phones, video screens and tracking devices?

 

[ParentsOf4]

"Location information" is not "tracking".

RFID and GPS are widely considered to be forms of "tracking technology". For example:

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/everyday-tech/location-tracking1.htm

FedEx, UPS, and USPS all collect data and refer to it as tracking. (For example, the package was in this location at this time.) Disney will collect similar "location information" on people. FedEx, UPS, and USPS "track" packages. Disney intends to "track" people.

It is tracking.

 

[sshindel]

RFID and GPS are widely considered to be forms of "tracking technology". For example:

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/everyday-tech/location-tracking1.htm

FedEx, UPS, and USPS all collect data and refer to it as tracking. (For example, the package was in this location at this time.) Disney will collect similar "location information" on people. FedEx, UPS, and USPS "track" packages. Disney intends to "track" people.

It is tracking.

But FedEx, UPS, and USPS care about each individual package, and so does the customer.
Disney does not care about individual people, but group patterns. It's location information used for a vastly different reason.

 

[Goofyernmost]

But FedEx, UPS, and USPS care about each individual package, and so does the customer.
Disney does not care about individual people, but group patterns. It's location information used for a vastly different reason.

I suppose that's true to an extent, but, if this is going to be beneficial for Disney, it must be more than that. Group tracking, ok, makes sense on one level of it. What attractions are the most popular, what time of the day does that happen, how to better distribute the crowds throughout the property. Yes! However, to benefit them they need to know more. They may not care much about who you are individually, but socioeconomically it would be good for them to break it down. If they track the people that stay at the Grand Floridian, for example, they can assume to some degree that those people have more spendable income then those that stay at POP Century. Not always, but for the most part. They could use the information to see just what the folks staying at any level are purchasing, where they are eating, what they are buying and so forth to better control what is offered to them either in the resorts or even in the stores, if they have a significant assembly of that level recorded. By targeting those "groups" they can put merchandise, food and other things at the level that they will best sell.

I would be truly surprised if anyone staying offsite or POP level would ever purchase one of the $12000.00 Crystal Castles, so why even waste space where the audience is limited. Concentrate it where the money is. I don't see where tracking on an individual level would be anything but a lot of time wasted trying to sort it all out. And Disney does not live by one person alone, they have to think along the lines of Mob Level and target audience. Individuals would be a waste of time, energy and resources. Expenses that one person could not recoup.

 

[sshindel]

I suppose that's true to an extent, but, if this is going to be beneficial for Disney, it must be more than that. Group tracking, ok, makes sense on one level of it. What attractions are the most popular, what time of the day does that happen, how to better distribute the crowds throughout the property. Yes! However, to benefit them they need to know more. They may not care much about who you are individually, but socioeconomically it would be good for them to break it down. If they track the people that stay at the Grand Floridian, for example, they can assume to some degree that those people have more spendable income then those that stay at POP Century. Not always, but for the most part. They could use the information to see just what the folks staying at any level are purchasing, where they are eating, what they are buying and so forth to better control what is offered to them either in the resorts or even in the stores, if they have a significant assembly of that level recorded. By targeting those "groups" they can put merchandise, food and other things at the level that they will best sell.

I would be truly surprised if anyone staying offsite or POP level would ever purchase one of the $12000.00 Crystal Castles, so why even waste space where the audience is limited. Concentrate it where the money is. I don't see where tracking on an individual level would be anything but a lot of time wasted trying to sort it all out. And Disney does not live by one person alone, they have to think along the lines of Mob Level and target audience. Individuals would be a waste of time, energy and resources. Expenses that one person could not recoup.

This is all true. It's basically what I meant by group patterns. Not just the entire park population en masse, but targeted groups of people with different correlations. And honestly, part of what they will be looking at doing is finding patterns and groups that they never knew existed. The GPS / Tracking / Location (whatever you want to call it) data will be Big Data, and part of their goal will be to identify key patterns that they are not even aware of so that they can better utilize the information that they have to do many things, among them would be park operations related, but also merchandising as well.
I'm sure that some of your location information could be used potentially on an individual level if they really wanted (more around key events though, visits to a store or ride, not your entire day meandering through the park). They could see you really like the Haunted Mansion because you rode it 20 times in your last visit and try and send you direct marketing material for new Haunted Mansion merch. Really though, that is likely not the intent, nor the short or near term future of the data that they'll be gathering.

 

[Goofyernmost]

They could see you really like the Haunted Mansion because you rode it 20 times in your last visit and try and send you direct marketing material for new Haunted Mansion merch. Really though, that is likely not the intent, nor the short or near term future of the data that they'll be gathering.

Exactly, imagine how much research would have to go into it to maybe sell a Haunted Mansion T-shirt on an individual basis. If, however, they could determine that there are way more people that ride HM repeatedly then other attractions, they can target their promotions to play up the HM merchandise on a mass scale. Right now they already would know that HM is popular, but they currently have no way of knowing how many of those thousand (or whatever) people per hour that ride it, have already been on 16 times that day.