NextGen / FP+ / Magic Band. The official truth starts to appear

[Lord_Vader]

I disagree with the multiple previous posts that Florida residents or WDW visitors that stay off site do not spend as much $ at the World than most of the visitors that stay on site. I have a timeshare that I normally stay at when we travel to WDW. We have been there 4 times in the past 6 years. I assure you we spend more than most of our friends that travel and stay at a Value or Moderate resort. Most of them only go during the Free Dining Promotions, not paying for any of their meals. They bring in their own snacks, use the Disney transportation, and buy limited merchandise. My family goes for 8 nights, buy park hopper tickets, eat a QS, TS, snacks, adult beverages each day we are in the park. Pay $15 to park daily, and buy lots of Disney merchandise. I can't imagine at $40 a steak that Disney is not making a large profit off of each and every meal I purchase. So if the rumors are accurate and you will only be able to use/reserve Fastpasses/Nex Gen system by staying on site, I think Disney is making a huge mistake. Whats that old saying, "You shouldn't bite the hand that feeds you"

I think the spending part includes "total revenue" from a customer, it would be very hard to overcome the daily price of most moderate or deluxe resorts in food alone with a standard party of four including what they spend in the park, even if only a QS lunch or dinner. Bottom line, Disney is looking a $$$ per guest including accommodations. Even a minimum nights expense on-site with AP discounts is around $85 per night which is more than we spend on two QS meals in a day. When we are staying at DBW this summer we are paying over $400 per night, I find it very difficult to believe the average offsite guest spends over $400 per day over and above what we do on food/drink/souvenirs.

Over the past few years, this past Dec/Jan the exception, free dining has been the norm. However, we did not spend less, it simply allowed us to purchase more souvenirs, stay longer and upgrade our dining from TS to Signature many times.

Disney should have a program for local guests, they should do more to encourage area residents to visit the parks but I would be willing to bet that the average $$$ per day is dramatically lower when compared to a visitor from the Midwest visiting for the first time and staying in the Polynesian, eight days is over $7,000 for a family of four with DDP. I would expect that Disney would cater more to the visitors spending more than we do, anyone expecting anything less is not being realistic.

Is it fair, no. Is it right, no. In my opinion though, that is the way it is and will be for some time.

 

[fngoofy]

It's not a fingerprint. Disney doesn't have records of people's fingers, otherwise I'm sure a lot of people with warrants would have been arrested just for walking into a theme park.

No, it takes a reading of the print on the first use, and ensures that subsequent uses are the same print.
The old system measured the distance between points, now it is a simple finger print scan. They just need to know that you aren't swapping out the ticket, so the first time is the scan and there after they compare to that to make sure you are consistent on that ticket.

 

[awoogala]

Not really, except that it would save a little time. On one trip, I somehow ended up with two photopass cards and I had to have them combine them onto one account so I could get them all on one disc. No big deal, but it was an extra few minutes wasted standing at the counter waiting for them to do it. No doubt it would be possible with the wristbands as well, and surely wouldn't eat up too much time. But it would still be a little more convenient if all the wristbands in the party all pooled into the same account from the getgo so we don't have to waste time determining if my son's band has any pictures on it, if my daughter's has any pictures on hers, and then combining them all onto one account.

you could have waited until you were home, and added all passes in online on the photopass site as well. Just did that yesterday.

 

[awoogala]

Have people been able to make fastpass+ reservations on the new website/app yet? Because in just a little over 2 weeks it will be 60 days out for my trip and I would like to try it. We all know that they are trying to roll all of this out soon but it would be nice if disney could give us dates. I they want us to use the MyMagic+ system then giving the date when we can would help.

Last word was they would begin rolling it out in small phases, starting with the Boardwalk in February. No word what phase happens after that.

 

[Adam5897]

Last word was they would begin rolling it out in small phases, starting with the Boardwalk in February. No word what phase happens after that.

Hopefully these rumors are true. And i really hope it rolls out for art of animation by early April. I would love to try it out and see how it works.It will be nice to not have to keep track of the park ticket and run across the park for fastpasses and the touch to pay idea is neat.

 

[ChrisFL]

No, it takes a reading of the print on the first use, and ensures that subsequent uses are the same print.
The old system measured the distance between points, now it is a simple finger print scan. They just need to know that you aren't swapping out the ticket, so the first time is the scan and there after they compare to that to make sure you are consistent on that ticket.

Its still not a fingerprint scan, its a biometric reader...HUGE difference

 

[RSoxNo1]

The current FP system provides equal access to everyone. Rich or poor, onsite or offsite, traveler or local, everyone has an equal chance at FP.

With NextGen, Disney will be able to correlate a tremendous amount of data. (Gaps in their data collection and storage systems made it difficult to centralize this information in the past.) How often do you visit? How much do you spend when you visit? Where are you staying? What is your income bracket? Disney will have this information and more before deciding which FP+ to offer you at your 60-day window.

Demand for the "good" FP+ will far exceed supply, especially at Epcot, DHS, and DAK, where there are significantly fewer marque attractions. Disney will have to ration FP+ for attractions such as EE, Soarin', and TSM. It would be naive to think Disney won't use the information it now has integrated together to determine who gets preferred access to these "good" FP+.

I'm not suggesting all TSM FP+ will go to Deluxe Resort guests. However, it would be bad business for Disney not to keep its "best" customers happy. With approximately 10,000 Deluxe Resort rooms representing potentially 40,000 Deluxe Resort guests each day, that's a lot of people to keep happy. It seems unrealistic to expect Disney to offer the same FP+ options to its Deluxe Resort guests as its day guests.

Like it or not, the WDW theme parks are slowly becoming a place for the rich, or at least those who are willing to spend as if they are rich. Of course, with ticket prices increasing the way they have since Iger took charge in 2005, we already knew that.

The current FP system favors the informed. I suspect that the new system will also favor the informed as well it just might be a different segment of the informed (those that are willing to spend money). I will say though that ignorance is the fault of the consumer. What's going to upset people is if they can't get the same access that they did previously. If that's the case they won't be as willing to buy tickets to the parks.

There is still a learning curve for the current fastpass system and I suspect that this will be a greater issue once Fastpass+ rolls out.

I'll say it flat out - the system appears to be tiered and as a result there absolutely is no conceivable way that day guests can have the same access they did previously. I suspect it will be most noticeable at the high demand Fastpass attractions and when Day guests can't get into Soarin', Toy Story Mania or Peter Pan's Flight unless they wait standby, there's going to be a lot of upset guests.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I would surmise that MK will allow you to have 1 more FP+, as opposed to Epcot/DHS/DAK will be the standard 3.

I would also surmise that Disney will likely, not positively, offer guests staying at Deluxe resorts first crack at Fantasmic/Wishes/Illuminations/any other parades/any other spectaculars.

Now we kinda know that those two issues could of been fixed by more attractions at Epcot/DHS/DAK. Especially seen as they set out the roadmap and new full well that there was an attraction deficit at 3 of the parks.

Also of note FP+ could seriously choke out the need for doing maintenance in the parks, when the WANT for needing attractions as well as counter service operating, is more important to the executives...

...just makes you think...

I really think the balance should be 5 or 6 FP+ options at MK, and 3 at the other parks.

 

[RSoxNo1]

You are all assuming the the guests who are using FP+ know what the good rides are or think they good rides means thrill rides. A woman who tested FP+ in Dec got to use it at MK and DHS. She had never been to Disney before and she has a 4 year old she chose.

DHS - 9-9:10 AM Little Mermaid, 1:10-2:10 Toy Story Mania, 3:55-4:05 Disney Junior Live

MK - 10:55-11:55 Under the Sea with Little Mermaid,12:20 - 1:20 Peter Pan's Flight, 2:05 - 3:05 Winnie the Pooh, 3:30-4:30 Enchanted Tales with Belle

She also said there was button to push to let Disney pick your FP+ for you.

Also I would be one of the people to use it for a parade or Fireworks spot. My kids will be 2 and 4 on our next trip. Most likely neither will be 40 inches. I would rather FP for things my kids will be able to enjoy. I've been on Space, Splash, BTMRR etc 100s of time pre kids. I would rather use my FP+ for thing the kids will love and get to do for the first time. Not all people think like me but there might be enough of us to off set the people who just want the thrill ride FP+.

I would say that this person made some pretty strong selections based on demand. Given how they were distributed the only "poor" choices were Little Mermaid and Disney Junior Live on Stage. The groups for DHS were as follows

Group 1 (Choose 1):

• Lights, Motors, Action! Extreme Stunt Show
• Rock ‘n’ Roller Coaster
• Toy Story Midway Mania

Group 2 (Choose 2):

• Disney Junior – Live on Stage!
• Indiana Jones Epic Stunt Spectacular
• Muppet*Vision 3-D
• Star Tours
• The American Idol Experience
• The Great Movie Ride
• The Twilight Zone Tower of Terror
• Voyage of the Little Mermaid

 

[RandomPrincess]

I would say that this person made some pretty strong selections based on demand. Given how they were distributed the only "poor" choices were Little Mermaid and Disney Junior Live on Stage. The groups for DHS were as follows

Group 1 (Choose 1):

• Lights, Motors, Action! Extreme Stunt Show
• Rock ‘n’ Roller Coaster
• Toy Story Midway Mania

Group 2 (Choose 2):

• Disney Junior – Live on Stage!
• Indiana Jones Epic Stunt Spectacular
• Muppet*Vision 3-D
• Star Tours
• The American Idol Experience
• The Great Movie Ride
• The Twilight Zone Tower of Terror
• Voyage of the Little Mermaid

Thanks for breaking the list down you wouldn't t happen to know the lists for the other parks?

 

[RSoxNo1]

Thanks for breaking the list down you wouldn't t happen to know the lists for the other parks?

The last split for Magic Kingdom was as follows:
Group 1 (Choose 2):

• Big Thunder Mountain Railroad
• Buzz Lightyear’s Space Ranger Spin
• Disney Princesses at Town Square Theater
• Enchanted Tales with Belle
• Main Street Electrical Parade
• Mickey Mouse at Town Square Theater
• Peter Pan’s Flight
• Space Mountain
• Splash Mountain
• Wishes Nighttime Spectacular

Group 2 (Choose 2):

• Celebrate a Dream Come True Parade
• Dumbo the Flying Elephant
• Haunted Mansion
• Jungle Cruise
• Mickey’s PhilharMagic
• Monster’s Inc Laugh Floor
• The Barnstormer
• The Magic Carpets of Aladdin
• The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh
• Under the Sea: Journey of the Little Mermaid

It's assumed that MK will also add Pirates, and it's a small world to this list they could conceivably go in either list, but I suspect they would be split.

 

[Genie of the Lamp]

The last split for Magic Kingdom was as follows:
Group 1 (Choose 2):

• Big Thunder Mountain Railroad
• Buzz Lightyear’s Space Ranger Spin
• Disney Princesses at Town Square Theater
• Enchanted Tales with Belle
• Main Street Electrical Parade
• Mickey Mouse at Town Square Theater
• Peter Pan’s Flight
• Space Mountain
• Splash Mountain
• Wishes Nighttime Spectacular

Group 2 (Choose 2):

• Celebrate a Dream Come True Parade
• Dumbo the Flying Elephant
• Haunted Mansion
• Jungle Cruise
• Mickey’s PhilharMagic
• Monster’s Inc Laugh Floor
• The Barnstormer
• The Magic Carpets of Aladdin
• The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh
• Under the Sea: Journey of the Little Mermaid

It's assumed that MK will also add Pirates, and it's a small world to this list they could conceivably go in either list, but I suspect they would be split.

Not that it matters nor relevant, but which group would you put 7DMT in? Would you in include CTM with Wishes? Just curious. Also, do you think you could update that upcoming rumors/project thread of yours again. I like that thread.

 

[flynnibus]

and lets not forget.. how many groups... how many FPs... whats in each group.. etc is all stuff that will probably change over time... nevermind changes that are likely based on crowds and seasonal stuff. No need to get too attached to what we've seen in tests, or even what is launched on day 0. It's all likely to change as they roll it out and figure out how to make it work in the real world.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Not that it matters nor relevant, but which group would you put 7DMT in? Would you in include CTM with Wishes? Just curious. Also, do you think you could update that upcoming rumors/project thread of yours again. I like that thread.

I suspect that the groupings in the Magic Kingdom will be somewhat fluid. I would suspect 7DMT will be in in the same group as Barnstormer with Thunder in the same group as Space.

As for rumors, I'm tracking rumors on a new site. Please PM for details.

 

[Genie of the Lamp]

I suspect that the groupings in the Magic Kingdom will be somewhat fluid. I would suspect 7DMT will be in in the same group as Barnstormer with Thunder in the same group as Space.

As for rumors, I'm tracking rumors on a new site. Please PM for details.

I really don't want you to baby me here and I even tried looking in the help tab and got no help, but since I just joined on saturday and still trying to figure my way around here, how do you pm someone on here? Sorry you have to do this.

 

[ParentsOf4]

The current FP system favors the informed. I suspect that the new system will also favor the informed as well it just might be a different segment of the informed (those that are willing to spend money). I will say though that ignorance is the fault of the consumer. What's going to upset people is if they can't get the same access that they did previously. If that's the case they won't be as willing to buy tickets to the parks.

There is still a learning curve for the current fastpass system and I suspect that this will be a greater issue once Fastpass+ rolls out.

I'll say it flat out - the system appears to be tiered and as a result there absolutely is no conceivable way that day guests can have the same access they did previously. I suspect it will be most noticeable at the high demand Fastpass attractions and when Day guests can't get into Soarin', Toy Story Mania or Peter Pan's Flight unless they wait standby, there's going to be a lot of upset guests.

Yes, the current FP system favors the well-informed. The point of my earlier post (“everyone has an equal chance at FP”) is to suggest that all have equal opportunities to benefit from FP. How much we benefit from that equal opportunity is determined by the effort we put into it. This will be considerably less true with FP+.

I suspect there will be some opportunities for knowledgeable guests to benefit from FP+, although the “knowledge gap” won’t be as large as it is today with FP. See:

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/fastpass-’s-possible-impact-on-standby-lines.858496/page-5#post-5281401

Like you, I believe FP+ eventually will favor onsite guests although I expect this to evolve. Like so much in sales and politics, Disney first needs the public to accept the concept of NextGen (think “we need a balanced budget”) before implementing details (think “we need a balanced budget by implementing a 100% tax rate on all income over $20K”). Disney needs the public to accept NextGen before evolving it further.

I envision FP+ eventually being a perk to supplement or replace EMH. I also suspect, eventually, TDO will use it as an incentive to upsell guests. Like it or not, IMHO, this is a business decision completely within TDO’s purview. On this aspect, I will watch how FP+ evolves and plan my future vacations accordingly. I just wish they wouldn't hide behind Walt Disney's name when they do it.

I suspect there will be a lot of upset guests but perhaps no more than there are today. The difference, I suspect, is that the upset guests will be those TDO is the least worried about upsetting, namely guests who spend the least at WDW.

Ultimately, however, it’s all a shell game. FP+ does nothing to increase attraction capacity and, at best, represents a zero-sum game. At worst, onsite guests lose EMH while gaining little in return.

 

[Adam5897]

The last split for Magic Kingdom was as follows:
Group 1 (Choose 2):

• Big Thunder Mountain Railroad
• Buzz Lightyear’s Space Ranger Spin
• Disney Princesses at Town Square Theater
• Enchanted Tales with Belle
• Main Street Electrical Parade
• Mickey Mouse at Town Square Theater
• Peter Pan’s Flight
• Space Mountain
• Splash Mountain
• Wishes Nighttime Spectacular

Group 2 (Choose 2):

• Celebrate a Dream Come True Parade
• Dumbo the Flying Elephant
• Haunted Mansion
• Jungle Cruise
• Mickey’s PhilharMagic
• Monster’s Inc Laugh Floor
• The Barnstormer
• The Magic Carpets of Aladdin
• The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh
• Under the Sea: Journey of the Little Mermaid

It's assumed that MK will also add Pirates, and it's a small world to this list they could conceivably go in either list, but I suspect they would be split.

I don't understand how they are going to reserve seats for parades and fireworks like wishes. So does that mean if I choose a ride over getting a good spot, there will likely be no good spite for me left?

 

[RandomPrincess]

I don't understand how they are going to reserve seats for parades and fireworks like wishes. So does that mean if I choose a ride over getting a good spot, there will likely be no good spite for me left?

I'm waiting to see where these spots are. At DL the VIP fireworks are half blocked by trees. Not my idea of the best view.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I don't understand how they are going to reserve seats for parades and fireworks like wishes. So does that mean if I choose a ride over getting a good spot, there will likely be no good spite for me left?

They are constructing preferred viewing areas. In theory the premium parade and fireworks viewing areas will not affect the current spots that guests typically watch these things. If anything, this is a perk that they can offer resort guests without taking anything away from non-resort guests.

 

[Adam5897]

They are constructing preferred viewing areas. In theory the premium parade and fireworks viewing areas will not affect the current spots that guests typically watch these things. If anything, this is a perk that they can offer resort guests without taking anything away from non-resort guests.

That's a very good idea, however I would have to see how good these seats are before I waste a fastpass that I could have use on a ride. There aren't enough at MK there should be at least five in my opinion.