Next Generation Fastpass?

[Jimmy Thick]

When people choose to stay at Contemporary or Grand Floridian its not to show the World that we are Mr. Moneybags, we're doing it because we have an expectation FROM DISNEY, no one else, to give us their most Premium experience available. If there wasn't a market for this type of resort, they wouldn't exist. One thing to do to cater to that market is to offer certain perks that warrant the extra cost of that resort.
There are already a lot of those perks available to Deluxe guests that don't impede the moderate, value, or day guests in any way. For example, when we stay in Club Level we have our own private concierge that has a little more pull at certain restaurants, like Le Cellier or CRT and with a little schmoozing on his or her part, and flexibility on ours, 99% a table can be found for us at a relatively last minute. That doesn't mean that someone with a reservation at Le Cellier is going to be asked to leave the restaurant to make room for that person but its just an extra accomodation.
Giving the resort guests the opportunity to obtain fastpasses from the resort can be another one of those perks. No one is going to ask someone staying at All Star Movies to make way for the family from the Polynesian because their fastpass is "more vailid" than theirs. Will there be less fastpasses available at the machines? Probably. Will anyone notice that change? Probably not.
This has been an idea that's been put aside for too long.

I totally agree with this post.

While I don't like the fact some of the deluxe secrets are being told to the general public, it totally hits the mark.

 

[JoeZer]

So why not stay on site and enjoy the perks?

Resident rates are always around $150 per night, which is close to what a regular hotel on I-Drive would run I would guess.

All depends on the "when" of your trip and "how" you book off-site rooms. I stayed over on US192 just the other side of I-4 from the parks and paid only $40/night via hotels.com. I had also seen prices available on I-Drive averaging $50-80/night on there as well.

Again, all depends on the travel dates (if they're during Peak Season or not).

 

[fireworkz]

I don't think Disney would actually use FastPass as a deluxe resort perk. They might as an overall on-site perk, but I doubt they would limit it to Deluxe. After all if FastPass purpose from Disney's point of view is to allow more time for shopping, then they would potentially lose a lot of money with a tiered or exclusive FastPass. There are far more moderate, value, Fort Wilderness and yes even off-site guests than there are in Deluxe. I bet the losses in Merchandise will not be off set by the very slight increase in Deluxe guests.

Profits aside, I think Disney should avoid offering any in parkperks to guests based only on how much they spent on accommodations. You want extra perks like desert parties? Pay for them as an extra, but don't include it because of the resort you're staying at. You pay more at a deluxe resort for the extra amenities and perks within that resort (or even the other resorts for that matter), that's why those resorts are more expensive. I hope you enjoy them to their fullest! I know I would. However, this should not extend to the parks. Because everyone spends another amount above their nightly accommodations on park tickets. APs aside, it doesn't matter which resort you stay in, everyone pays around the same price for park tickets. Therefore they should be entitled to the same services in the parks.

In addition I feel there is something else to be considered here. There are many who visit WDW and stay in Values or Off-Sites not because they don't make enough money but because they have to travel longer distances to get to Florida. I'm in that boat. Living in Newfoundland, Canada I spend far more money on air fare to Florida than most others in North America, so sometimes that cost has to be offset by staying at a lower priced resort. It would not make me a happy customer see others getting extra privileges in the parks based solely on their level of accommodations. I spent the same on my park tickets as someone who is lucky enough to live closer and spent several hundreds less on travel.

 

[tirian]

People that choose to spend that kind of money is the target audience disney is trying to lure in. I choose to spend the amount of money that I do because I can. If I spend twice as much as you then yes I deserve some perks that you do not get.

When people choose to stay at Contemporary or Grand Floridian its not to show the World that we are Mr. Moneybags, we're doing it because we have an expectation FROM DISNEY, no one else, to give us their most Premium experience available. If there wasn't a market for this type of resort, they wouldn't exist. One thing to do to cater to that market is to offer certain perks that warrant the extra cost of that resort.
There are already a lot of those perks available to Deluxe guests that don't impede the moderate, value, or day guests in any way. For example, when we stay in Club Level we have our own private concierge that has a little more pull at certain restaurants, like Le Cellier or CRT and with a little schmoozing on his or her part, and flexibility on ours, 99% a table can be found for us at a relatively last minute. That doesn't mean that someone with a reservation at Le Cellier is going to be asked to leave the restaurant to make room for that person but its just an extra accomodation.
Giving the resort guests the opportunity to obtain fastpasses from the resort can be another one of those perks. No one is going to ask someone staying at All Star Movies to make way for the family from the Polynesian because their fastpass is "more vailid" than theirs. Will there be less fastpasses available at the machines? Probably. Will anyone notice that change? Probably not.
This has been an idea that's been put aside for too long.

*standing and applauding*

I totally agree with this post.

While I don't like the fact some of the deluxe secrets are being told to the general public, it totally hits the mark.

:ROFLOL:

HAH.

What secrets?

What perks?

A deluxe hotel at Disney gives you a very nice bed and a great location, and I stay at the deluxe level as much as I can (Poly Club Level being my most frequent hotel), but I've stayed at too many real 4 and 5-star hotels to consider the Disney Deluxe Resorts worth the $$$ they charge at a nondiscounted rate.

Concierge can only pull special strings for you if you ask at the right time during the right month. But the yellow room key is pretty.

Do I love the deluxe resorts? Yes, I stay at them as much as possible because the theming and separation from the parks are sublime. Do I think they're worth more money than the values and moderates? Yes, for the room sizes and locations. Do I think deluxe resorts actually provide substantial perks for the price normally charged? Hahahahahaha. No. I stay there because I use discounts.


BTW, for reference, I've stayed at all the MK monorail resorts (concierge), all the Epcot deluxe resorts (concierge at Yacht), and AKL.



Now here's how it could potentially affect Fastpass.

Disney has currently set up the FP system so that everyone is equal. Using FP as a perk for staying Deluxe works well at Universal, where regular guests must pay for the privilege, because Uni hardly has any room occupancy compared to Disney, and only has two theme parks with a few FP attractions anyway. But Disney's deluxe resorts have many more rooms than Uni's three hotels.

Under a new system:

For the sake of argument, we'll assume that deluxe guests get credits equal to one FP per applicable attraction per day (based on the average number of FP rides at the Disney parks) included in their room keys. We'll also suppose that the FP system can automatically adjust the number of paper tickets distributed to the general public, based on the amount of hotel guest FPs being used that day.

In our theoretical system, the FPs are linked to the room keys, not just the room key/tickets combinations, because linking them to the tickets would isolate the guests who aren't on vacation packages (like APs), but are staying at Deluxe Resorts and should therefore get the FP privileges.

Now we'll say moderate resort guests get a limited number of included FPs per park per day, and value resort guests get even fewer.

All guests can still use the FP machines without affecting their resort privileges, but those paper FPs are subject to the regular FP rules.

SCENARIO ONE. Using our assumptions, Disney has loaded the FP lines at every park because they don't know which days guests will use their allotment for each park, let alone whether or not guests parkhop. At this point, FP lines could potentially be longer than the Standby queues, because every Disney resort guest has a certain number of FPs in addition to the paper ones that anyone can get.

Lowering the number of paper FPs distributed sounds like an easy fix, except that hotel guests who take advantage of both the included FPs and the paper ones are pulling double FPs without the timed blockout periods that currently prevent overdistribution. And if Disney simply gives credits, as opposed to one-FP-per-attraction like Universal successfully uses in just two parks with limited FP rides anyway, hotel guests could continually use multiple credits at a popular ride (e.g. Expedition Everest) and get a paper FP for a less crowded one (e.g. Dinosaur), making a regular FP almost impossible to get. Again, the FP lines could become much longer than the Standby ones.

SCENARIO TWO. Now we'll use almost the same assumptions as the previous scenario, except that hotel guests do have to wait in between each FP credit usage, and the credits are also tied to the FP machines in the parks, thus preventing hotel guests from racking up FPs all day. In this scenario, hotel guests simply have a certain number of FPs and cannot piggyback on the general guest park machines—as long as the room key and ticket are the same card. That's a pretty big loophole.

APs could exploit this by using the deluxe room key for some attractions, and their tickets for others, thereby getting around a blockout period. The key and ticket could be linked for the length of their hotel stay, but this would be a huge logistical headache for Disney, who would have to ask APs, CMs, and non-package hotel guests to scan their tickets to link them to the hotel room key. Given the infrastructure required to link and track this, I doubt Disney would spend the time doing this to close the separate room key/ticket loophole. We'll just assume it remains. The number of separate tickets to ticket/hotel key packages may be small enough that Disney doesn't care if the separate holders can double dip.

So at this point, the included FPs are no longer a perk, because the built-in blockout periods mean resort guests aren't getting more than they could if they simply walked up to a FP machine and inserted a ticket, but the hotel guests do enjoy the convenience of not having to walk all the way to an attraction for a FP. I suppose that's a decent perk for staying on property, but it isn't particularly special. And moderate/value hotel guests could close the deluxe gap by simply getting FPs the old-fashioned way.

:dazzle:

I know these are only two scenarios, but they'd both be massive headaches for Ops, especially if the general FP machines adjust their output based on the number of Disney hotel guest credits being used.

I'm not saying that Deluxe Resort guests shouldn't get more benefits (I think they should!), and I'm not saying that a hotel/FP correlation wouldn't work in some way; but if Disney bases its model off the Universal Express Pass system—which works because Uni only has three hotels and two theme parks, and nobody else can get an Express Pass without paying for it—the Disney FP system wouldn't work.

Only closing FP machines entirely and making it a paid option would solve the problem posed by having over a hundred thousand on-property guests with built-in FP credits.

EDIT:

There is one more scenario, but it's so underhanded, I'd rather not consider it. Disney could limit the TOTAL amount of FPs a guest could get (from hotels or regular machines) based on whether or not that guest is staying at a Disney resort, and then based on the level of the resort. A Grand Flo guest would then be able to enjoy more FPs than a Pop Century one, and both of them would get more FPs than somebody staying at a Comfort Inn down I-4. The problem is, at what point does the FP program become meaningless? Let's say a deluxe guest gets 8 MK FP credits per day, a moderate gets 6, and a value gets 4. An off-property guest gets just 2. Would Disney risk making that many guests angry, especially since a significant percentage of guests do stay off property? I don't know if Disney would risk the bad image.

 

[RobVanDam]

I thoroughly enjoyed reading the post.

But yeah, not a fan of that last scenario. Let's pretend it did not exist... Sound good?

 

[SleepingMonk]

Nope, if you are going to limit perks to the resorts themselves then restaurants should also be closed to anyone not staying at that resort.

I agree!

People are saying you pay for the perks provided by a deluxe resort so that's all you should get, nothing else in the parks.

Then the same people say all resorts should be open to anyone.

:hammer:

 

[SleepingMonk]

I don't know if Disney would risk the bad image.

People willing to pay more usually get more.

That's not a bad image it's a fact of life.

Disney has different tiers for dining, resorts, tours, etc...

None of those have caused civil unrest on Main Street.

 

[Master Yoda]

Are you serious? You think people wouldn't go to WDW because they can't get a FP if they're not staying at a resort? That's like saying people wouldn't go because they can't go to EMH. I just don't think that there should be a tiered FP system, and I would like to have FPs reserved only for me...cuz I'm selfish.

Quite serious. I have been to US exactly one time since they eliminated the free express pass (been there many times before that). I was in town at a convention so I had no reason to stay at one of their resorts. I spent the majority of my day in line watching resort guests pass me over and over again in the express pass line. My only option would have been to shell out and additional $30-$40 for the pay express pass. If a theme park requires me to stay in one of their resorts or shell out almost as much as an extra 50% of the ticket price for a pass to be able actually enjoy the attractions then they will not see a dime of my money. I have not been back since and don't plan on going back any time soon.

 

[fosse76]

Universal has a great system with their resort key/ExpressPass.

No riots in the streets over there lately.

Universal has nowhere near the number of hotel rooms Disney has. PLUS, Universal's Express Pass is available to everyone (by way of paying). So unless Disney continues to offer the FP to everyone, it's not a valid comparison.

 

[fosse76]

I would totally be in favor of a tiered system where deluxe-type resort guests get preferential priviliges. I for one work hard to earn enough money to stay in deluxe accommodations at Disney and would therefore not feel badly at all that other guests felt left out. It's just capitalism.:shrug:

And someone who makes minimum wage can work just as hard (if not harder), so your point is moot.

 

[erasure fan1]

People willing to pay more usually get more.

That's not a bad image it's a fact of life.

Disney has different tiers for dining, resorts, tours, etc...

None of those have caused civil unrest on Main Street.

And none of those are free to begin with. I have to pay for the dining plan either way, its just do I want only counter service, 2 sit down meals... If the fast pass option was always a paid option then I wouldnt care if it had some sort of tiered system.

 

[SleepingMonk]

Universal has nowhere near the number of hotel rooms Disney has. PLUS, Universal's Express Pass is available to everyone (by way of paying). So unless Disney continues to offer the FP to everyone, it's not a valid comparison.

I acknowledged that fact in previous posts.

That was the reason I mentioned WDW would have to limit it's "VIP PASS" to club level guests only.

 

[SleepingMonk]

And none of those are free to begin with. I have to pay for the dining plan either way, its just do I want only counter service, 2 sit down meals... If the fast pass option was always a paid option then I wouldnt care if it had some sort of tiered system.

But things change, such is the way of the world.

 

[tirian]

People willing to pay more usually get more.

That's not a bad image it's a fact of life.

Disney has different tiers for dining, resorts, tours, etc...

None of those have caused civil unrest on Main Street.

Disney didn't have to strip away a previous benefit to offer "different tiers of dining, resorts, tours, etc..."

You're choosing to remain remarkably stubborn.

 

[SleepingMonk]

I'm not saying they need to completely remove the free FastPass option.

I am saying they should offer more to guests willing to pay for it.

 

[tirian]

BTW, I want to point out that I DO mostly stay at Deluxe Resorts, and frequently at the club level. I'm not arguing as someone who can't afford anything but Value—a distinction that you guys, not I, made on previous pages of this thread.

I'm also not going to bury my head in the sand and pretend that logistics and public image problems wouldn't exist, as long as the changes benefited me.

 

[tirian]

I'm not saying they need to completely remove the free FastPass option.

I am saying they should offer more to guests willing to pay for it.

I understand, and (like I said before) I do think Deluxe Resort guests should get more benefits, because right now they basically pay out the nose for a better bed and proximity to one theme park.

I just don't think that FP is the right perk, because of the problems I listed earlier.

 

[Mr. Morrow]

I don't like it but they should be an upper level FP offered. Keep FP the way it is but if you are staying in a deluxe resort you should get an upper level FP that it unlimited.

 

[tirian]

I don't like it but they should be an upper level FP offered. Keep FP the way it is but if you are staying in a deluxe resort you should get an upper level FP that it unlimited.

Please read the lengthy post I made on the page 9. An unlimited FP for Deluxe guests would throw a wrench into the entire system, because FPs are distributed based on the estimated attendance level for each day.

Maybe each deluxe guest could get two generic FPs, like a Rider Re-Entry pass, per park. That would remain manageable, because RRE passes are already distributed independently of the FPs, and only deluxe resort guests would have them anyway. The main thing is that the passes wouldn't be linked to the FP system.

Of course, Disney would have already offered this if they were interested, because the benefit requires nothing more than slips of paper. :shrug:

 

[Mr. Morrow]

Please read the lengthy post I made on the page 9. An unlimited FP for Deluxe guests would throw a wrench into the entire system, because FPs are distributed based on the estimated attendance level for each day.

Maybe each deluxe guest could get two generic FPs, like a Rider Re-Entry pass, per park. That would remain manageable, because RRE passes are already distributed independently of the FPs, and only deluxe resort guests would have them anyway. The main thing is that the passes wouldn't be linked to the FP system.

Of course, Disney would have already offered this if they were interested, because the benefit requires nothing more than slips of paper. :shrug:

If they could make it work they should imo the deluxe amenities aren't that great right now. Even charge for the Unlimited FP if you charge that would limit the number of people who get it.