News New security measures

[BringMeTheHoriz]

Can you explain why you believe this?

All I can say is you can trust me on this one.

Except that it would be much easier and efficient for them to strike outside of the parks. For example; loaded buses, loaded hotel lobbies, loaded ferry boats. But clearly we all know that terrorists don't do any planning...... I'm not poking at you bud, I'm just frustrated with how so many Americans can be such cowering wimps these days.

In the best interest of having an intelligent discussion, I'm going to ignore the part where you imply that I'm cowering wimp. Just remember that some people make a career out of security, and no I'm not talking about the rent-a-cop kind of security you see in your daily life.

I agree with the points you've made, but as we've discussed already in this thread the only place Disney can have any real control is at the park gates, and even then it's not great (as others have discussed, there's cast member entrances and backstage entrances etc). Outside of the park gates there are far far too many access points to the property and the places you mentioned. Yes, you are a sitting duck waiting for the monorails/boats/buses on property. However it's impossible for Disney to address the security risks at these points, and honestly the average person isn't expecting to see a security show at them. Which brings me to my next point....

Please don't mistake the argument I'm trying to make as my belief that what is happening at the front gate is effective. I've admitted that it's all a show but somehow that's been lost as people have been quick to hit that reply button. What I'm trying to articulate is that the show isn't meant for you and I...it's meant for the average person who is just looking for the appearance that something is being done, because they now EXPECT something to be done. The average American EXPECTS to be screened when entering any mass gather place, and if they aren't screened they begin to wonder about their safety (thus no visible security at the places you mentioned). I'm not saying I like it or enjoy it, but what I am saying is that I understand WHY it's being done.

Everything at Disney is more than what meets the eye...and that includes security.

 

[AEfx]

Your last paragraph is exactly what I'm championing. Im not saying I like it, Im not saying I agree with it, I'm just stepping out of my Disney fanboi shoes and into the shoes of the people running security at Disney. Based on everything I've seen since my numerous trips to the parks, what you can see is all a show.

Sorry, although I know it's an uphill climb, I just can't support the further dumbing down of the American public.

Nobody has made a direct PUBLIC threat against WDW, agreed. What they have threatened is the American way of life, which Disney is 100% all about. Freedom, fair tales, dreams, all of it is the exact target of violent groups the world over. Drop the rhetoric and use some common sense...any rational person could step back and see Disney for the target it is, or very well could be. That's not an opinion, that's a fact.

The rhetoric is coming from stuff like this - not from folks like me that are trying to keep sane about this topic. And by falling for the rhetoric, we are falling into their very hands. You fully admit that you know this isn't effective but if it makes people feel better, great - I can't think of any more indirect way to enable the "bad guys" than that.

DL being a greater target than WDW? Way to put words into my mouth, because I never mentioned it. But while we're on the subject, you think anybody with malicious intent really gives a flying you-know-what about which is more important? Absolutely not. Both have a large number of people in small spaces on a daily basis...they're both of equal value.

I didn't put those words in your mouth, they came from mine. And no, sorry, I disagree. I'm not getting deep into this one than I already have - which is to say, just logistically, WDW is in the middle of nowhere and Disneyland is in the middle of what is by far the most populated state and in the most congested area in the country.

The people heading Disney security are the absolute best in the business who worked in the best intelligence agencies prior to going to the mouse. I trust in their abilities, especially in what they're doing beyond the 'show' at the front gates

And who's stepping out of those fanboi shoes? LOL.

I don't disagree that Disney likely has very good security outside of the security theater we see, but I cannot agree that further pandering to public fear is helpful whatsoever. It's enabling the "bad guys" and giving them just what they want. To keep people scared. And given how one is much more likely to die in a car accident on the way to WDW than to be a victim of an attack there, it's just completely illogical to try to reinforce the very fear that the "bad guys" want us to have.

 

[s8film40]

There have been no major incidents at Walt Disney World in it's 45 year history?

All I can say is you can trust me on this one.

Everything at Disney is more than what meets the eye...and that includes security.

I'm not disputing what is being said but if you can't back it up with some sort of specific other than "trust me" then it's pretty much meaningless.

I've had a vast array of experiences with Disney over the past years and they do some pretty amazing things but there always seems to be this idea that there's so much we don't know and so many secrets that are never revealed. While I'm sure some of this is true especially when it comes to security, I've learned things aren't really that unusual or different than what other companies do once you get to know them. With this kind of mythology surrounding Disney I've learned over the years that those who don't really know what's going on describe things in this grand way but stay real vaque with the details. Meanwhile those who do know how things work can always share some grounded insight even though it may not be the most exciting thing ever.

In any case not to get too far off topic my point is when you say Disney has the best of the best and people come to Disney from "top intelligent agencies" it just sets off my BS alarm based on my experience. Not saying your wrong just if you believe these statement I would just like to know why and I hope you understand why "trust me" doesn't mean much.

 

[Matt_Black]

I don't know specifics. I do however look at results. And the simple fact is that WDW is one of the most visited vacation spots in the world and in its history has not had any major tragedy. The worst is isolated cases related to preexisting medical conditions, travel accidents en route between parks and hotels, and the occasional drunken idiot at EPCOT.

 

[s8film40]

I don't know specifics. I do however look at results. And the simple fact is that WDW is one of the most visited vacation spots in the world and in its history has not had any major tragedy. The worst is isolated cases related to preexisting medical conditions, travel accidents en route between parks and hotels, and the occasional drunken idiot at EPCOT.

Disney has its fair share of incidents and isn't immune to the problems that you would find anywhere else in the world. If we're talking about major terrorist type events I don't think you can attribute Disney's lack of experiencing any to some sort of top notch security. Those are very rare and by design unpredictable, this has far more to do with luck and circumstances than anything else.

 

[KeithVH]

First of all, let's all remember that correlation does not imply causation. Secondly, after 65 pages, and a boatload of pontification, I'm wondering who in the group here has an active role is corporate risk assessment, intelligence gathering and analysis, or is considered a subject matter expert in physical security?

We've gone from complaining about waiting in line to the efficacy of the implementation and my bravo sierra alarm is ringing too.

 

[flynnibus]

I don't know specifics. I do however look at results. And the simple fact is that WDW is one of the most visited vacation spots in the world and in its history has not had any major tragedy.

Do you find that most major spots do have these tragedies? Is WDW the norm or the exception?

 

[Seanual757]

Experienced the new security measures for the 1st time since they went up at Disney. We went to DHS last light and my wife was asked to go through the metal detector but I was not I asked if I needed to go and they said no because I had a baby stroller. Now this was not a Disney employee but looked like a rental security person.


Made no sense to me that just leaves the door open for those looking to harm folks to start going in with wheel chairs, strollers, ect….


I was not impressed and I am sure this is just temporary until something much better is installed.

 

[PhotoDave219]

All I can say is you can trust me on this one.



In the best interest of having an intelligent discussion, I'm going to ignore the part where you imply that I'm cowering wimp. Just remember that some people make a career out of security, and no I'm not talking about the rent-a-cop kind of security you see in your daily life.

I agree with the points you've made, but as we've discussed already in this thread the only place Disney can have any real control is at the park gates, and even then it's not great (as others have discussed, there's cast member entrances and backstage entrances etc). Outside of the park gates there are far far too many access points to the property and the places you mentioned. Yes, you are a sitting duck waiting for the monorails/boats/buses on property. However it's impossible for Disney to address the security risks at these points, and honestly the average person isn't expecting to see a security show at them. Which brings me to my next point....

Please don't mistake the argument I'm trying to make as my belief that what is happening at the front gate is effective. I've admitted that it's all a show but somehow that's been lost as people have been quick to hit that reply button. What I'm trying to articulate is that the show isn't meant for you and I...it's meant for the average person who is just looking for the appearance that something is being done, because they now EXPECT something to be done. The average American EXPECTS to be screened when entering any mass gather place, and if they aren't screened they begin to wonder about their safety (thus no visible security at the places you mentioned). I'm not saying I like it or enjoy it, but what I am saying is that I understand WHY it's being done.

Everything at Disney is more than what meets the eye...and that includes security.

Nice marketing spiel.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I don't know specifics. I do however look at results. And the simple fact is that WDW is one of the most visited vacation spots in the world and in its history has not had any major tragedy. The worst is isolated cases related to preexisting medical conditions, travel accidents en route between parks and hotels, and the occasional drunken idiot at EPCOT.

Correlation is not causation and these types of measures, which have independently been shown as pointless, have not existed for the majority of the parks' history.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Are they supposed to be psychic and know his legs are his only area that is surgically altered? Are they not supposed to ask what other areas may need special screening?

He drove up in an ECV, they asked, he pointed to his legs and they said, "besides that". He then moved forward and the guy with the wand just waved him through. He seemingly found it more amusing than anything.

 

[manolo8]

I think it's also interesting that in Florida and not in California they are putting this measure of security because in Florida it's very easy to get a "carry and conceal' permit and their is a "stand your ground" law. In California their isn't either of this two things, would the logic of they argument be that Florida would be safer then California.

 

[s8film40]

I think it's also interesting that in Florida and not in California they are putting this measure of security because in Florida it's very easy to get a "carry and conceal' permit and their is a "stand your ground" law. In California their isn't either of this two things, would the logic of they argument be that Florida would be safer then California.

This is being done in both states. I don't think a concealed weapon permit is relevant to this at all, I can't see how that's a factor.

 

[flynnibus]

He drove up in an ECV, they asked, he pointed to his legs and they said, "besides that". He then moved forward and the guy with the wand just waved him through. He seemingly found it more amusing than anything.

Correct - the whole thing is harmless and just part of the process. Yet here, thrown out without full context, people act like sharks in the water and go on how these guys are clueless, untrained, inconsiderate, etc. Basically - its all taken completely wrong and extrapolated to all kinds of stupidity.

I mean, they ask everyone 'do you have anything in your pockets' - even after they see people work to unload before approaching the scanner. It's not stupidity or blindness.. its part of the engaging dialog to get people to vocalize things and remind them of things.

 

[TeriofTerror]

i only celebrate one =P

Really? You don't celebrate Thanksgiving or New Year's Eve? In that case, I'm looking for a dogsitter...

 

[Matt_Black]

He only celebrates Talk Like a Pirate Day.

 

[TeriofTerror]

He only celebrates Talk Like a Pirate Day.

Ah. Well, if someone doesn't celebrate Towel Day, I just don't think it's a person to whom I can relate.

 

[dstrawn9889]

I think it's also interesting that in Florida and not in California they are putting this measure of security because in Florida it's very easy to get a "carry and conceal' permit and their is a "stand your ground" law. In California their isn't either of this two things, would the logic of they argument be that Florida would be safer then California.

people that go around shooting people are not likely to go and register for a permit...

 

[draybook]

All I can say is you can trust me on this one.



In the best interest of having an intelligent discussion, I'm going to ignore the part where you imply that I'm cowering wimp. Just remember that some people make a career out of security, and no I'm not talking about the rent-a-cop kind of security you see in your daily life.

I agree with the points you've made, but as we've discussed already in this thread the only place Disney can have any real control is at the park gates, and even then it's not great (as others have discussed, there's cast member entrances and backstage entrances etc). Outside of the park gates there are far far too many access points to the property and the places you mentioned. Yes, you are a sitting duck waiting for the monorails/boats/buses on property. However it's impossible for Disney to address the security risks at these points, and honestly the average person isn't expecting to see a security show at them. Which brings me to my next point....

Please don't mistake the argument I'm trying to make as my belief that what is happening at the front gate is effective. I've admitted that it's all a show but somehow that's been lost as people have been quick to hit that reply button. What I'm trying to articulate is that the show isn't meant for you and I...it's meant for the average person who is just looking for the appearance that something is being done, because they now EXPECT something to be done. The average American EXPECTS to be screened when entering any mass gather place, and if they aren't screened they begin to wonder about their safety (thus no visible security at the places you mentioned). I'm not saying I like it or enjoy it, but what I am saying is that I understand WHY it's being done.

Everything at Disney is more than what meets the eye...and that includes security.

I said Americans, as in the general public. I don't imply things when I'm making a statement about one single person, I will say it directly.

 

[networkpro]

First of all, let's all remember that correlation does not imply causation. Secondly, after 65 pages, and a boatload of pontification, I'm wondering who in the group here has an active role is corporate risk assessment, intelligence gathering and analysis, or is considered a subject matter expert in physical security?

That would be me a certified SME. But as you see I have not chimed in at all as discussion in open forums of effective policy, procedures, and methodology only gives people ideas of where to start to counteract them. You want effective? Take a look at Airport security in Israel. Very low tech, but the most effective you'll see almost anywhere.