New resort in VA? + Other rumors and gossip

[Gregoryp73]

It's more than a little strange. That's the TDO mentality sadly. Half funded Space Mountain refurbs. Stagnated Imagination and Energy. Shuttered facilities. Nothing new to DHS aside from an excuse for a parade and being forced into the full ST makeover. Dithering and knee jerks in DAK, FLE and DTD.

It's about time WDW management got a royal kick up the nether region. Only then might they realise they can't live off the legacy. Great things are coming to the central Florida competition. We can only hope it'll be great for everyone.

It reminds me of the past Chicago Cubs management...Wrigley stays packed no matter how much the team loses, so they have time and time again balked on real positive change. It hasn't been until recently have they started attracting people that are coming to the team for the "curse lift challenge"

But really they consistently raise ticket prices with a mediocre product because at the end of the day...the park will stay full. Really just because of the atmosphere left from a generation ago.

 

[alphac2005]

It reminds me of the past Chicago Cubs management...Wrigley stays packed no matter how much the team loses, so they have time and time again balked on real positive change. It hasn't been until recently have they started attracting people that are coming to the team for the "curse lift challenge"

But really they consistently raise ticket prices with a mediocre product because at the end of the day...the park will stay full. Really just because of the atmosphere left from a generation ago.

Terrific analogy. When my parents were living in Chicago, the strings that had to be pulled to get a good seats at a Cubs game was something else, even though the team was awful and pretty consistently is.

I just wanted to note that I've been following WDWMagic since the inception of the site and it's a good (although bad due to the problems) thing to see that so many aren't looking at WDW through rose-colored glasses any longer. My wife and I lived in Orlando from 1999-2005 and to see how the quality has fallen off of a cliff and the pricing has become utterly ridiculous is really something. To think, she and I complained when we moved down to Orlando that the WDW of '99 was a mess compared to just a few years prior. We frequented the parks each week and now, we simply refuse to go. It's the first time that we've just not wanted to go anymore. I know that the sentiment is out there with many other visitors. When they actually care about their product again, maybe we'll care to go again.

I agree with you about the fact that it seems like nothing they do right now quiets the place down, but, I'd love to see the financials on how they've been propping up the attendance. Even though they've raised prices, besides the past few years, Disney has never offered free packages ranging from "free" nights in hotel rooms to "free" dining, albeit the whole dining program is relatively new. They've had to pull out the bag of tricks to keep the place with good attendance. In our once or twice a week to the property, one of the great things was to dine somewhere different in the parks. Today, it doesn't matter because the menus have basically all become homogenized and of lower quality.

WDW1974 and everyone, here's my big question, the Disney of today is a typical Wall St. driven corporation, so is there really any hope for an executive team that understands that with superior quality, increased revenue will follow? I've been in business for many years and I've seen year after year, the demand of instant return from the financial industry constantly pressures these executives to focus on the present bottom line and not long-term planning. It seems that they've sold the company of the necessity to spend in California in order to improve long-term profitability, but that seems like an easier task because at least they can bring the board and other influentials quickly to the Anaheim property. Orlando appears to be a stretch for any care and it's merely a profit line on the account ledger, sans quality.

 

[marni1971]

At what point do the folks out west finally realize the TDO idiots are clueless and crack the whip??? Do the folks out west simply not care? Do they not see what's happening? I'm curious why there's no intervention from the big boys out west.

It's begun. Orlando was overruled so to speak into having the full Star Tours overhaul. It's been said there won't be another Space Mountain fiasco. If Meg goes with Iger - if - things may change even more.

 

[RSoxNo1]

George Kalogridis, president of the Disneyland Resort. There have been rumors that George himself is encouraging TDA to leak news to Al Lutz, but I haven't seen anything to prove that.

Actually, knowing George's past feelings about Lutz....I doubt it's coming from him.

Of course, there are still actually fanbois who support the man, which really amazes me.

Oh, and contrary to some douches in the Twitverse, I don't get my info from Al Lutz (he won't return my phone calls since I've apparently hurt his feelings) and he also has a man-crush on Georgie K, who has played him like a fiddle since coming to Anaheim in 2009.

Any questions?

As someone who has known George personally since his days as EPCOT VP (1995-2000) ... as someone who once took me to dinner (I am sure 31.6% of people here won't believe this, but I don't care ... the truth is the truth) to discuss 'neutralizing' Al ... as someone who was taught quite a lot about being Internet/fanboi savvy by a certain Spirit, I can tell you that I am 99.9% sure that George is leaking whatever he wants through his own channels (not directly, I'm sure).

He is a smart guy and since his first tenure in Anaheim was a disaster that almost cost him his career with Disney (Al Weiss created an opening for him at WDW when Cyn fired him -- and wouldn't even let him show up to the one-year anniversary press conference that announced Bug's Land and ToT were coming) due in no small part to Al's constant criticism of TDA online ... well, he learned his lesson.

I've also heard that George K is one of Al's main sources. I know another very significant one is also quite high up in the company as well. He may be getting manipulated by people high up in the company, but I think his articles are must reads for Disneyland info.

Iger is saying spending on P&R must come down when the reality is quite different.

What happens first, MK reaches 18 million or Universal resort reaches 16 million? I'm thinking it's going to be close.

It's begun. Orlando was overruled so to speak into having the full Star Tours overhaul. It's been said there won't be another Space Mountain fiasco. If Meg goes with Iger - if - things may change even more.

It did seem like the only way something positive was going to come to Florida was a mandate from California. I understand the greed mentality to a certain extent, but I can't comprehend a corporate structure that benefits a handful of individuals at the cost of lowering the standard of quality for millions. I know Disney is far from the only company that operates this way but it's beyond foolish.

Talking about things that were left to the decision makers in Orlando, the "One Disney" mentality is discussed in Lutz's recent article with regards to generic merchandise in one of the Carsland shops. I know Al likes to toss TDO under the bus as often as possible (usually it's deserved), but is this "One Disney" mentality for merchandise and other things routed in Orlando? I thought this was a Rasulo fueled movement. Is there any hope that some of this homogenization is going away in the future as well?

 

[Californian Elitist]

At what point do the folks out west finally realize the TDO idiots are clueless and crack the whip??? Do the folks out west simply not care? Do they not see what's happening? I'm curious why there's no intervention from the big boys out west.

I don't think the people in CA get involved with FL, and vice versa. I don't recall TDO doing anything when TDA was a mess in the 90's. I honestly don't think "One Disney" even exists anymore.

 

[marni1971]

I don't think the people in CA get involved with FL, and vice versa. I don't recall TDO doing anything when TDA was a mess in the 90's. I honestly don't think "One Disney" even exists anymore.

No, but if Burbank shouts Orlando listens.

 

[Californian Elitist]

No, but if Burbank shouts Orlando listens.

I didn't even think about Burbank, you have a point.

 

[Master Yoda]

No, but if Burbank shouts Orlando listens.

Do they listen at just a shout? Seems like it is takes something akin to standing on their neck.

 

[marni1971]

Do they listen at just a shout? Seems like it is takes something akin to standing on their neck.

More like the shout your mom would do when supper was ready

 

[Tom]

More like the shout your mom would do when supper was ready

Does it go so far as to requiring your full first name AND middle name? Or just the first shout?

 

[ScoutN]

Sounds great. I definitely want to get back to BGW. What is your opinion btw? How would you compare BGW to MK?

Landscaping, aesthetics, overall visual quality... BGW has the edge. Daily maintenance, cleaning, etc goes on every day at BGW. (outside of just food and restroom areas)

 

[njDizFan]

Landscaping, aesthetics, overall visual quality... BGW has the edge. Daily maintenance, cleaning, etc goes on every day at BGW. (outside of just food and restroom areas)

Does Das Festhaus still do the shows with the dancing?

Thought I heard '74 say that that was gone??!!

Really, that was a fave

 

[ScoutN]

Does Das Festhaus still do the shows with the dancing?

Thought I heard '74 say that that was gone??!!

Really, that was a fave

Yea, uhhh, that went away this year but... from what I gather after the disaster of "Entwined," some reincarnation of it might be making its way back. There is a huge uproar over its leaving.

 

[culturenthrills]

You are entitled to your opinion and since you aren't one of our resident crazies here, I respect that. But I disagree. And it isn't something I say lightly.

MK attractions may in some cases be better-themed, but I am talking about the basics. Things like cleanliness/upkeep, efficiency, quality entertainment, value etc. are far better in VA right now.

This isn't 1990 (like some videos I recently watched ... no not Martin's, although I've seen plenty of them ... and certainly not Jeff Lange's:hurl and the MK isn't being maintained to exacting standards. The park isn't full of greenery and water and an active RoA ... and it doesn't have multiple stage shows anymore.

It is a vastly Walmarted product. BGW is improving all the time. MK has been headed in the other direction since the 20th century ended.



Air Over Europe is the worst attraction I experienced there. I don't know why ... the concept is great ... a Soarin knockoff. The execution stunk though. But I didn't think the queue was bad at all. AC is one of the greatest coasters I have ever been on and what some Disney fans need to get is that sometimes it's OK for a coaster to be exposed steel ... especially when the ride is so awesome and the track actually hugs the terrain ... Barnstormer is an eyesore at MK, but people 'splain it away 'cause it's a 'themed' kiddie coaster.



Pompei was OK, but not special (although a key effect apparently wasn't working for my one ride) ... Loch Ness is amazing. What's more amazing is the ride debutted in the 70s and is as smooth as can be yet Space Mountain can cause an emergency visit to a chiropractor ... and RnRC is actually a real headbanger now (something that simply you don't get on any of Busch's five well-maintained coasters).




The MK isn't on the level of what the MK was and is supposed to be. And right now, it is a hot, barren, stroller/ECV clogged construction zone (and, no, I don't give them credit for finally attempting to deal with the capacity issues).

I am having serious issues yet again justifying renewing my AP, but this will be the 30th straight year and I know I will ... I just will likely not visit very much ... sorta like the past few years.

The MK is really not a very good park right now. I know that's like a dagger through the heart of many fanbois, but it also is cold hard reality.

I have been going to BGW since the year it opened. It was my home park for 30 years. It is one of the most beautiful parks in the world. It is built in a valley which is unlike almost any other park in the world. What has happened it that things at MK have degraded so much that BGW actually compares pretty well with it. As far as cleanliness, beauty and entertainment it blows MK away. While the rides may not be as highly themed that are some of the best in the country of their kind. As much as I love the parks here in Florida. I really miss BGW.

 

[WDW1974]

It's great that DLR might be getting even more love in the near future (by all appearances, RSR already looks like a true E-ticket and then some), but it's a little strange that the folks in Orlando aren't more panicky vis-a-vis Universal Florida than they are out in California with regard to Universal Hollywood.

Based on the latest theme park attendance figures I saw recently, the two Universal Florida parks are much, much closer to WDW than Universal Hollywood is to DL -- and the numbers for IoA have been going up very steadily and rapidly... they're nipping at the heels of DHS and DAK, and the next big addition could well put them both over.

In contrast, Universal Hollywood is significantly below DL attendance-wise, and I have a hard time imagining that Harry Potter will make that much of a difference in the market. (And the other theme parks out there -- Knott's, etc. -- are substantially behind UH, so I would imagine they're considered less of a threat.)

While Potter is a big threat to WDW's 3rd and 4th gates ... and it did quite some damage to SW at first, but those trends appear to be changing, you have to understand that people don't (except for some insane fanbois and people coming from Australia/New Zealand) spent a week or more at DLR. Often DLR is a 1-2-3 day deal on a much larger SoCal visit, so if a tourist decides to take a day for USH, then it affects DLR much worse than if a Brit staying at the YC for 15 nights takes a taxi to IOA for a day.

And since they've already seen what Potter can do in a market like O-Town, they're also aware that with all those locals in the media capital of the world (and with much cheaper admission, although that's bound to change some) some DL fans/APers may just decide it isn't worth the price and give up DLR for a year or more.

 

[WDW1974]

I would love to see a great new attraction that's not franchise-based.

I think that's probably why I've been so excited for Grizzly Gulch and especially Mystic Point at HKDL. I enjoy anything's that well-themed and well-executed, but there's something refreshing about a new E-ticket that's entirely franchise-free.

Well, I agree and am very excited as a HKDL semi-regular and former 'local' to see both of the new lands.

It does appear Disney is quite capable of still delivering great attractions that aren't attatched to a film property.

 

[WDW1974]

Interesting to hear these observations about BGW. I visited regularly many years ago, but haven't been since before Apollo's Chariot was added.

Apollo's was a highlight for me ... probably my second favorite attraction there. A great smooth coaster that hugs the terrain and doesn't require loops for thrills. I REALLY loved that one.

The last time I was there, the Loch Ness Monster was so rough and head-bangy (about in the same class as DLP's Space Mountain) that it really put me off from my following regularly scheduled visit... there were other signs at the time that the park seemed to be going downhill in terms of maintenance, etc., so one thing led to another and I just never made it back, despite the addition of a number of coasters over the years that seemed pretty enticing.

I am surprised by that, but they clearly fixed that problem. I was shocked by how smooth and fun that ride was. RnRC is much, much, MUCH worse ... Loch Ness doesn't bang you around now.

And I had to have another MAGICal poster point out a burned out lightbulb because I sure didn't see any (although I noticed a second in a more prominent locale after seeing the first) ... but maintenance seemed to be damn near perfect except for Volbolten's new queue where they didn't apply the right sealer between the wood and the paint and it was being peeled off like layers of lettuce ... I've seen this dumbness at Disney too and it makes me wonder if any of the designers have actually spent anytime in a park (this isn't an Eddie Sotto shot!) watching how people behave (usually badly).

As I posted earlier, the videos of Verbolten look pretty good. The queue seems extremely well themed, and the effects in the "event building" look about as good as one can expect from a YouTube video of the inside of a darkened building. In short, it looks comparable to something like Rock 'n' Roller Coaster, and I'm eager to experience it (plus Griffon, Apollo's Chariot, etc.) sometime soon.

Verbolten is a kick- fun coaster/dark-ride hybrid with a totally unique twist that can be enjoyed by almost all guests. It isn't the Mummy, but is it a few steps above RnRC ... quite a few actually.

BTW, I can't imagine how Europe in the Air could be that much worse than Soarin' these days. On my last trip to WDW, there were so many dust motes and hairs (or things that looked like them) dancing around on the screen that it was virtually impossible to enjoy the actual images.

Soarin at EPCOT is simply a joke. No attempt at keeping the film clean, but at least in Anaheim it still looks great. EitA just flat out sucks. It actually made me dizzy, something that didn't happen on any of the five coasters, DK or any spinner.

 

[WDW1974]

It's the how long that worries me. I'd love for it to be sooner than later. I have the patience of a gnat, I know. Hubs & I were discussing this thread and it's plethora of good stuff. He's curious as to what kinda fresh meat (or not-so-fresh?) takes the big boy chair once Iger is out. He fears another incarnation of what's already there. That's the key. Who takes the helm and who does that person surround himself/herself with? More to wait and see...ugh....so brutal for me! LOL!

I can't say who, but I do know despite all the PR BS that you've heard for the last two years it won't be Tom Staggs. And I can also say with almost certainty that you're looking at an outsider. There's gonna be a deep cleaning going on. Step 1 was getting Alan Horn to run the WDS. It might surprise you, but the well isn't deep with talented execs at Disney that can handle top positions. And there's no one I see that's gonna get the BoD's OK to take Bob's place.

Must be nice! Hope it was a grand journey for ya. If we can't all live the life I'm happy for those who can. Good on ya! :wave:

It was (mostly) great. I did have my first bad cruise ever (worse when it's a Transatlantic), so all I'll say is don't sail with Celebrity. They run filthy ships with poor managers who take complaints about as seriously as most WDW managers would take one from me.

But the rest of the trip(s) was phenomenal ... I wish they would have lasted longer.
Yes, I am greedy. No, I won't apologize.

I'm sorta happy to be home, but all I want to do is start planning my next getaway (likely not til September when I head out to LA/DLR).

LOL! I love that description of O-Town. I'll be looking for more to come about Paris. I would probably be less critical as well given the geography and all.

What? O-town has more than timeshares and outlet malls?!??! oops, you;re right, I forgot they have every fast food outlet and casual dining chain known to mankind. Sorry about that.:lol:

After a few real flops at Biergarten I'd say around 2009-2010 we've just been blah at the thought of going back. Plus, with the price being what it is now I just have such a problem with any meal I think has a chance of being less than par. It aggravates me in a large way. I was 17 last time I ate at the Festhaus (which was ooooonly 21 years ago :lookaroun) but I'm sure they had the good, warm German potato salad then. I'm kinda picky with my German food considering my Gramma's heritage & growing up knowing what these dishes should taste like. I can't believe they did away with the singing/dancing bit! Really?!?! That was my favorite part! I loved to see the dancing! Ugh! Now I gotta find some other way to show this to my boys. Dang. I don't even want to try to envision what a foamhead show is. So sad. Please tell me they still had the Black Forest Cake that made your eyeballs pop out of your skull!

Yes, sadly the German show is gone and an attrocious foamhead/fairy tale abomination is there. But insiders tell me that there's a great shot the show will be back at some point because Busch isn't going to keep such a lousy show in a food and beverage venue of that size.

As to the cake, a friend had some and enjoyed it ... i was just too stuffed ... and the food was quite tasty.

I'll get an email off to ya. You'll know it's me. My name is one I go by a lot... :wave:

Yep. Sent one back tonight. Kept starting it today and would have to save it and stop.

We're still discussing the whole Disneyland thing vs. some other destination. We've got options that's for sure. No rush for the decision. I really do want to go. Not over the summer. We'll have to see. Prob'ly will ask you some questions. Thanks. :wave:

I like questions. I ask them a lot. Some are quite uncomfortable.

Darn, I guess people are PMing me and don't realize that I never clear out old ones ... will do so now. Sorry to the three folks who sent me notes a bit ago. Should be able to try again shortly.

 

[Kuhio]

While Potter is a big threat to WDW's 3rd and 4th gates ... and it did quite some damage to SW at first, but those trends appear to be changing, you have to understand that people don't (except for some insane fanbois and people coming from Australia/New Zealand) spent a week or more at DLR. Often DLR is a 1-2-3 day deal on a much larger SoCal visit, so if a tourist decides to take a day for USH, then it affects DLR much worse than if a Brit staying at the YC for 15 nights takes a taxi to IOA for a day.

Thanks for explaining this. There are obviously all types of issues that one can't discern just from raw attendance figures.

That said -- and on the topic of HKDL -- I also noticed from the attendance figures that Ocean Park went way up and HKDL's own modest gains weren't enough to close the gap between the two properties.

I've only visited HKDL once, but enjoyed what was there, despite the relatively sparse offerings -- the park has a certain charm that's lacking in a number of Disney's other parks around the world. I really hope Grizzly Gulch and Mystic Point will add even more of a boost than Toy Story Land did. From my perspective, both areas, and their respective headliner attractions, have the potential to be really, really exciting. Of course, I don't know if they'll seem as compelling to the park's primary guest audience as they are to someone like me, who probably represents a negligible percentage of HKDL's attendance.

I also now feel compelled to visit Ocean Park the next time I'm in HK -- which will probably be shortly after Mystic Point opens, if all goes well...

 

[Kuhio]

Really pleased to hear that Loch Ness is in good shape, and also looking forward to riding Apollo's Chariot sometime soon. I have nothing against loops, but love fast, smooth coasters with a ton of airtime.

If I'm going to plan a trip to Virginia, I'll probably also try to get over to Kings Dominion, which isn't too far from BGW -- I305 looks great too.

Soarin at EPCOT is simply a joke. No attempt at keeping the film clean, but at least in Anaheim it still looks great. EitA just flat out sucks. It actually made me dizzy, something that didn't happen on any of the five coasters, DK or any spinner.

I just checked out a video of EitA on YouTube -- I was a little amused at how effusively riders were oohing and aahing over every scene change. I don't think I've ever heard riders that excited on Soarin'! (And the ride's name is a misnomer... at one point, Euractually on Top of a Car... :lol