New resort in VA? + Other rumors and gossip

[bethymouse]

Also- BGW has a beautiful park, well themed and clean, but still doesn't quite compare to WDW.

 

[bethymouse]

A lot of interesting stuff in that thread and this one. Maybe Horn has been the "new sheriff" that has been discussed all along? Perhaps JT truly isn't crazy, but a visionary who prognosticated this all along?!?

Was it possible that Iger previously announced his 'exit plan' to satiate influential individuals (like JL) in TWDC who wanted him out--but said individuals now aren't satisfied with the departure date? Curious, because it seems odd to me that a firm date would be set only to have it pushed forward shortly thereafter. Any ideas on that?

It has been a good decade since I last visited BGW, but I remember it being a truly beautiful park with some amazing horticulture. I used to love Big Bad Wolf (which now seems to be gone according to the ever-reliable (but in this case probably accurate) Wikipedia). Glad to hear that park is thriving. I'd love to visit there during the fall sometime!

Yep- Big Bad Wolf has been replaced w/ a new exciting coaster Verbolten. it seems really cool, but I was sad to see big Bad Wolf go.

 

[bethymouse]

I love the Loch Ness Monster. It has always been a smooth, fun, thrilling-but-don't-kill-you ride. In my view, it is the standard-bearer for ride design. It loops twice (interlocking), is designed around trees and a lake that were native and re-planted, and -- best of all -- it is a SMOOTH ride! And most of BGW's other rides are also smooth. They even took out one, Drachenfire, several years back after a couple of years' complaints about heads bumping the headrest.

One thing that really makes the difference at BGW is trees -- and original ones at that. They took the added expense of building around existing trees, rather than flattening it all and starting again. The coasters go in and out of the trees. Make the park beautiful AND shady. And probably helps the European theme.

One more note here: They already have a first class resort. It is called Kingsmill and used to be under the same ownership (Anheiser Busch); not sure if that was sold when BGW was sold. I think so, though. Anyhow, Kingsmill is a first-class golf resort almost adjacent to BGW, along the James River. http://www.kingsmill.com/

They have never really emphasized the tie-in and used Kingsmill to boost BGW the way the Disney does for its resorts. They actually market Kingsmill to golf and resort guests first -- kind of the way that Disney USED to, especially for Fort Wilderness to campers of the past. (Yes, Disney used to leverage its resorts as resorts with their own amenities worthy of a visit whether or not you also wanted to visit a theme park.) Now it is all "synergy" to Disney, and BGW and Kingsmill provide a clear difference.

I remember Drachen Fire! Loch Ness was my first looping coaster ride! BGW has as many memories for me as does WDW.

 

[bethymouse]

Sounds great. I definitely want to get back to BGW. What is your opinion btw? How would you compare BGW to MK?

BGW is a beautiful park w/ some very nice coasters. Years ago, you could take a monorail over to the Budweiser Plant and tour it as well as taste some beer. They now have beer tastings in the park, but to me it's just not the same. MK is just that- MAGIC! The characters and the themed rides can't be beat IMHO. Although BGW has more coasters and a very nicely themed Europe ( favorite country Germany), they can't compete w/ Disney's atmosphere and themed lands. BGW is themed a bit like EPCOT World Showcase, but then again, there is still something about DISNEY!

 

[bethymouse]

Yea, uhhh, that went away this year but... from what I gather after the disaster of "Entwined," some reincarnation of it might be making its way back. There is a huge uproar over its leaving.

No way! I can't believe it's gone! It was a huge draw, I thought! Then again, I haven't been in 6 years!

 

[bethymouse]

LOL! I'm soooo with you! The first couple years we went to BGW & KD (when my dad was stationed back in Norfolk) I was still in my coaster-phobia years following the trauma of being forced onto BTMRR as a smaller child. After I was bribed out of my phobia (on BTMRR) I finally found my cahones and started giving big-girl coasters a shot. Loch Ness was like this mythical beast of sorts to conquor. Seriously. That's what it was like for me. Shock Wave was totally mind-blowing for me. And I sooooo remember riding the Rebel Yell (forwards on 1 side, backwards on the other). You described it so well because I remember the park being sparse out where it turned around...and remember it being on the body of water. Yep, got pics of my brother, cousin, me, & an old friend (who was murdered by her ex a few years ago) on top looking out. I remember thinking we were practically in the clouds up there. I have yet to see the real deal but it is funny how it all seemed larger than life back in the day.

A Cabbage Patch collector friend lives up in Fredricksburg (I think it is) and was telling me a few years ago when we roomed together at a big event in Georgia that the company she works for usually rents out KD once a year for a big corporate hub-bub. I forget the company name. Big tobacco company. She said that's the only time she goes to KD or takes her children. She was telling me overall (back in 2009) that the park was pretty ghetto-fab but I haven't been since the late '80s or early '90s so I have no clue. Man, talk about a jog down memory lane, tho! :lol:

Remember the KING COBRA? The TIME SHAFT? Is ANACONDA still there?

 

[flynnibus]

Remember the KING COBRA? The TIME SHAFT? Is ANACONDA still there?

King Cobra is long gone.. been sold to several parks since (even saw it in Ocean City for a period)
Time Shaft is history..
Anaconda is still going strong

 

[bjlc57]

how come is it, that when I posted almost the same feelings, that Magic Kingdom, and WDW was being negelected that I was shot down? I even tried my hand at humor, into making my post as a Tv or radio commercial .. and was not only stomped on.. but made to feel like maybe my posts and my presense were not needed or wanted. how is it that stuff that I have stated and asked and complained about , four or more years ago, suddenly, everyone else sees.. or at least they see it in this thread..

sorry kids but lets hope that the end of the bean counter era is going to end.. and that, the people with imagination, finally take over WDW... and geees I hope that it happens real soon.. cuz I am 55 and I don't know how many trips I have left in me..

 

[WDW1974]

Thanks for the clarification!

I find it very interesting what you say about Iger's personality being something that did not work to its advantage. I always found it strange that a company that was founded by someone so passionate and kind of sells passion and emotion would be lead by someone who comes across so unpassionate and cold.

I had to bold that part because it is something I'll never understand. Michael could be warm and fuzzy and display the geekiness of a fanboi when going over new park projects. Bob is always cold and calculating and never displays passion (about the closest I've ever seen him is when talking technology and, even then, still he is measured).

You can't run a MAGIC factory if you come off as someone who does not fundamentally believe in the concept.

After all, I think a large part of Disney's success is built on emotion. We might mock the way the company tries to play on that by selling retro t-shirts or bringing back the orange bird. But again and again when discussing Disney in comparison to other parks (especially Universal) the one thing that is mentioned is the nostalgia of Disney and what it means to people. I think they have a powerful tool there, but they don't use it in a way that makes sense. Instead of truly trying to connect and build this relationship for the future I get the feeling that they are just using it for short term goals. It even feels that there is a tendency to make the relationship with the company less personal - just think of the elimination of the use of Walt Disney's first name.

I can but say that I agree. Disney was always built on nostalgia. Walt's 1955 versions of pretty much every land at DL except Tomorrowland were homages to nostalgia. BUT ... it was a different type. Sort of like the difference between staying at Dixie Landings in a room themed to the American South in the 1870s versus staying in a room at TRFNaDL in a room themed to Disney's Princess franchise.

It is all so smarmy and about BRANDING and Disney nostalgia for its own past and products. Disney no longer wants to transport you to places that never were or romantic versions of places that are or are yet to be. The Mouse wants to transport you to a 24/7 commercial for all that is the Disney BRAND in 2012. If that means selling 20-year-old fanbois Orange Bird t-shirts or selling soccer moms Tinker Bell hoodies and antenna toppers, well, that is just swell. But when Disney started moving into this self reverential mode, I started to feel dirty like a $3 in church. Disney wasn't ever about your past Disney experiences (other than they wanted them to exceed your expectations so you'd return and tell your friends and neighbors) ... in 1990, Disney wasn't selling you on your 1975, 1977, 1981, 1987 and 1989 visits. Now, that's exactly what they are trying to do. Come back for more of (largely) the same year after stale year. Just pay more all the time and please lower your expectations when you pass under the MAGICal arches ... oh, and pretty please spend $25,000 on a timeshare too!

 

[WDW1974]

Also- BGW has a beautiful park, well themed and clean, but still doesn't quite compare to WDW.

Why not?

Seriously. Why? Not having MAGIC and Pixie Dust doesn't count as a legit reason.

 

[ScoutN]

how come is it, that when I posted almost the same feelings, that Magic Kingdom, and WDW was being negelected that I was shot down? I even tried my hand at humor, into making my post as a Tv or radio commercial .. and was not only stomped on.. but made to feel like maybe my posts and my presense were not needed or wanted. how is it that stuff that I have stated and asked and complained about , four or more years ago, suddenly, everyone else sees.. or at least they see it in this thread..

sorry kids but lets hope that the end of the bean counter era is going to end.. and that, the people with imagination, finally take over WDW... and geees I hope that it happens real soon.. cuz I am 55 and I don't know how many trips I have left in me..

Your posts and threads were nothing like Spirit's in the slightest bit. Rants vs facts and why it is how it is are two very different things.

 

[prberk]

Remember the KING COBRA? The TIME SHAFT? Is ANACONDA still there?

I used to love going backwards on the King Cobra. The best part was the weightless feeling right after going forward through the loop and up the end hill, right before sliding backward through the loop again! Even Everest in its backward turn cannot create that moment of weightlessness (because Everest actually stops and waits for the tract to change, as opposed to simply stopping you ascent due to gravity, going back into that wonderful freefall instantly. That was a rush!

I also loved the Timeshaft as a teenager (in the 1980s). It feelt like being in a washing machine, with rock music and disco lights playing (without the water)!

Fun times.

I still have to give it to the Loch Ness Monster. I think it is my personal favorite rollercoaster, it is so smooth. But I put the Rebel Yell up there as being the most classic, short of something from the real Coney Island. It has that perfect wooden rollercoaster feel. It is still going strong. (On a sad side note, it has had a tragedy. In the '80s or late '70s the back car came loose and fell off the track on the back turnaround, and killed its riders when it landed upside down on the ground.)

The Rebel Yell (and most of Kings Dominion of the time, as well as Norfolk's old Ocean View beach amusement park) is featured in the movie, Rollercoaster, the old "Sensurround" thriller from the late '70s (I think). It is available on DVD, and people on this board would probably love it. It is about a killer (Timothy Bottoms) who is blowing up rollercoasters. George Segal, Henry Fonda, and others are trying to capture him without causing a panic. Check it out.

Paul

 

[bethymouse]

Why not?

Seriously. Why? Not having MAGIC and Pixie Dust doesn't count as a legit reason.

I guess because WDW is a park for all ages. My guys, age 8, can't really enjoy the coasters and such yet @ BGW because they're not quite tall enough. I guess at some point though, my boys will not want to go to WDW, and will prefer places like BGW and KD. BGW is definitely up there though. I mean the entertainment (provided they still keep it) is nice, especially while eating in italy or Germany (I can't believe they still don't do that show). There is nothing like seeing the castle @ MK. WDW characters and shows are incredible, and the CMs @ WDW are the nicest I have ever met. The themed hotels @ WDW make it special too. But, I hear ya!

 

[bethymouse]

forget when behind rebell yell wasn't developed... who remembers when the lake there was used for the water ski shows? And the animal preserve up front... The King Cobra coaster..

We had season passes to KD in recent years when the kids were younger, but have not done so for the last 4 years or so.

KD is a park worth it's costs.. but it's not the type of park you want to repeat over and over each season.. especially as an adult. You get repeatability by mixing up who you go with, etc. The waterpark portion has continually expanded over the years and is pretty good especially if you have a tween aged kid.

Alas we haven't been since the 300+ft coaster was being built so haven't ridden that one yet.

Remember the disaster of the "first" hyper coaster! It kept breaking down. What was its name?

 

[RSoxNo1]

Why not?

Seriously. Why? Not having MAGIC and Pixie Dust doesn't count as a legit reason.

The biggest thing for me would be that the steel coasters that fuel the attendance at the park also disrupt so much of the theming. The theming of the buildings is done very well, the park is well kept but there is too much steel that disrupts that theming.

Exposed steel can work in some environments. Personally I think it's an eyesore in IOA and Universal Studios (although I like RRR), but less of an eyesore in Paradise Pier. I know others feel differently.

 

[flynnibus]

Remember the disaster of the "first" hyper coaster! It kept breaking down. What was its name?

Hypersonic (?) - it was fine for us and a fun (but short) ride

 

[bethymouse]

Hypersonic (?) - it was fine for us and a fun (but short) ride

YES! Thank you. I liked it too. But now of course, you have Top Thrill Dragster and Kingda Ka. Wow- what will they think of next? I guess that's the "bad " part about WDW. They'll never have the tallest or fastest roller coasters. But, most people don't go to WDW for that. Right?

 

[pax_65]

It is all so smarmy and about BRANDING and Disney nostalgia for its own past and products. Disney no longer wants to transport you to places that never were or romantic versions of places that are or are yet to be. The Mouse wants to transport you to a 24/7 commercial for all that is the Disney BRAND in 2012.

I guess my question is... WHY does Disney do this? I remember a discussion a while back about how Disney used to allow some stores to operate at a loss for the good of the overall resort. So stores might sell stuff that fits the theme (thus helping to transport you to 1870 or whatever) even though it might not sell as well as a Mickey or Tink t-shirt.

Is Disney just giving the average park guest what they want - piles and piles of identical crap in every store? Princess and Pirate-themed rooms in every resort? Is money the driving force here? I'm not sure how much you can blame Disney if this is what their customers want.

For myself, I agree with you. I always look for and ask about resort-specific merchandise. I won't buy another Mickey t-shirt but I would buy resort-specific stuff every time I go. I try to speak with my $$$ to steer Disney in the right direction, but I feel like I'm in the minority...

 

[bethymouse]

I guess my question is... WHY does Disney do this? I remember a discussion a while back about how Disney used to allow some stores to operate at a loss for the good of the overall resort. So stores might sell stuff that fits the theme (thus helping to transport you to 1870 or whatever) even though it might not sell as well as a Mickey or Tink t-shirt.

Is Disney just giving the average park guest what they want - piles and piles of identical crap in every store? Princess and Pirate-themed rooms in every resort? Is money the driving force here? I'm not sure how much you can blame Disney if this is what their customers want.

For myself, I agree with you. I always look for and ask about resort-specific merchandise. I won't buy another Mickey t-shirt but I would buy resort-specific stuff every time I go. I try to speak with my $$$ to steer Disney in the right direction, but I feel like I'm in the minority...

I agree. it is. unfortunately, all about the $$$. We are Disney fans, and sometimes our voice is just not heard!

 

[Master Yoda]

I guess my question is... WHY does Disney do this? I remember a discussion a while back about how Disney used to allow some stores to operate at a loss for the good of the overall resort. So stores might sell stuff that fits the theme (thus helping to transport you to 1870 or whatever) even though it might not sell as well as a Mickey or Tink t-shirt.

Is Disney just giving the average park guest what they want - piles and piles of identical crap in every store? Princess and Pirate-themed rooms in every resort? Is money the driving force here? I'm not sure how much you can blame Disney if this is what their customers want.

For myself, I agree with you. I always look for and ask about resort-specific merchandise. I won't buy another Mickey t-shirt but I would buy resort-specific stuff every time I go. I try to speak with my $$$ to steer Disney in the right direction, but I feel like I'm in the minority...

Pretty much, but they are no different than 99% of the other companies out there. Life revolves around short term profits and dividends to stock holders. If an area is not making money it gets cut. If an area is profitable, but not profitable enough it gets cut. Long term effects are largely ignored because when you look at the management structure of Disney, CEOs and VPs seem to get changed like underwear. Why should any of them care about long term goals when they know that they will be in a different role or with another company in 5-10 years if not sooner.