Rumor New Monorails Coming Soon?

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
All of that information regarding constraints on size, needed capacity and even appearance are not enough information to build anything. Those are design parameters, not a completed design.

And Disney does award construction contracts without bids and specifications. Hiring a contractor up front before design work is completed is part of project delivery methods employed by Disney, namely fast-track and integrated project delivery.
How can we be talking about "fast tracking" when all we hear otherwise is how much longer it takes Disney to accomplish anything then any other place? According to you guys, if Disney owned a dictionary, the word Fast-track would not even be in it.

I don't know what they actually use, but, logically Bombardier knows how to build a Monorail. The parameters are the detail of what Disney wants. Bombardier does not have to start from scratch to figure out what type of engineering is necessary. I still have my doubts that a place like Disney would just allow them a free pass to just build whatever they want to and that the world famous, detailed, concept art isn't an integral part of the process from the get go.
 

s8film40

Well-Known Member
Disney dabbled with monorail charges in the late 80s/ early 90s if I'm not mistaken. Or transportation charges...

It might have been only for the TTC/ Epcot loop. It was very brief.
Well when WDW opened through the early 80's they charged for the monorail, so it's not really a new concept. With Magic Bands they could make it even more seamless now. I suppose if they did this they could market it as a premium/express service. I don't see it happening, but they've done plenty of other things recently I didn't expect also.
 

nicb88

Well-Known Member
Disney dabbled with monorail charges in the late 80s/ early 90s if I'm not mistaken. Or transportation charges...

It might have been only for the TTC/ Epcot loop. It was very brief.

If I'm not mistaken for a long while it was stated that Disney Transportation was for those staying at a Walt Disney World Resort and/or in possession of a park hopper pass. It seemed pretty much unenforceable though, especially once 'dining around the world' became more of a thing.
 

Bender123

Well-Known Member
If I'm not mistaken for a long while it was stated that Disney Transportation was for those staying at a Walt Disney World Resort and/or in possession of a park hopper pass. It seemed pretty much unenforceable though, especially once 'dining around the world' became more of a thing.

Correct. It was always free fro guests at any WDW resort. They used to check resort IDs for the monorail and bus service. Express monorail service required a resort ID or valid park admission. Epcot required an admission to Epcot or a resort ID.
 

s8film40

Well-Known Member
Correct. It was always free fro guests at any WDW resort. They used to check resort IDs for the monorail and bus service. Express monorail service required a resort ID or valid park admission. Epcot required an admission to Epcot or a resort ID.
It wasn't always free, the Contemporary and Polynesian both used to have ticket booths at their monorail entrances.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
How can we be talking about "fast tracking" when all we hear otherwise is how much longer it takes Disney to accomplish anything then any other place? According to you guys, if Disney owned a dictionary, the word Fast-track would not even be in it.
Fast-track is a project delivery method. Being fast is relative as it is faster than the design-bid-build method you repeatedly insist is the only project delivery method.

I don't know what they actually use, but, logically Bombardier knows how to build a Monorail. The parameters are the detail of what Disney wants. Bombardier does not have to start from scratch to figure out what type of engineering is necessary. I still have my doubts that a place like Disney would just allow them a free pass to just build whatever they want to and that the world famous, detailed, concept art isn't an integral part of the process from the get go.
Nobody said anything about Bombardier being allowed to do whatever. You’re using a very narrow definition of design. There is a huge gap between what Disney wants it to look like and the shop drawings used to actually build something. The aesthetics get a lot of attention but compose a small part of a complete design. Bombardier would not be starting from scratch because the Walt Disney World Monorail System is essentially a Bombardier system. Disney would be starting from stratch trying to do all of the design in-house.
 

ABQ

Well-Known Member
It wasn't always free, the Contemporary and Polynesian both used to have ticket booths at their monorail entrances.
WDW-Trans_Adult_front.jpg
 

Bender123

Well-Known Member
It wasn't always free, the Contemporary and Polynesian both used to have ticket booths at their monorail entrances.

You could buy day passes if you just wanted to resort hop, but for the vast majority of people, yes, it was free. All "ticket" books included a transportation pass up until the introduction of the day pass, which then replaced the transport ticket for day guests.
 

s8film40

Well-Known Member
You could buy day passes if you just wanted to resort hop, but for the vast majority of people, yes, it was free. All "ticket" books included a transportation pass up until the introduction of the day pass, which then replaced the transport ticket for day guests.
Yes, buying a ticket book isn’t “free”. If you booked a room only and no tickets and walked up to take the monorail you would be directed to the ticket booth.
 

Bender123

Well-Known Member
Yes, buying a ticket book isn’t “free”. If you booked a room only and no tickets and walked up to take the monorail you would be directed to the ticket booth.

Resort guests always had free access to the transport system. The only people ever charged were day guests with no ID and/or no ticket. Technically, the ticket policy still states the transport system is for resort guests and theme park ticket holders only. The only difference is they don't check and don't charge for people who aren't staying there or going to a park.

Its for people who were staying off site and say...went to golf at the Golf Resort, then took a bus to the TTC to take a monorail to dinner at Top of The World for "Broadway at the Top". The reason a ticket was included with all ticket books was ecause there is no way to get to the only park on property without one. This policy ended with Epcot. You needed the monorail to get across Seven Seas. The resort guest were encouraged to use the amenities at the other resorts and transport (local monorail) was reserved for resort guests to go play tennis and catch a show.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Fast-track is a project delivery method. Being fast is relative as it is faster than the design-bid-build method you repeatedly insist is the only project delivery method.

Nobody said anything about Bombardier being allowed to do whatever. You’re using a very narrow definition of design. There is a huge gap between what Disney wants it to look like and the shop drawings used to actually build something. The aesthetics get a lot of attention but compose a small part of a complete design. Bombardier would not be starting from scratch because the Walt Disney World Monorail System is essentially a Bombardier system. Disney would be starting from stratch trying to do all of the design in-house.
That's a pretty much simplistic way of looking billions of dollars worth of investment. They, of course, do not nitpick every possible detail, but, they do specify what results they expect from that investment. They would be absolute fools to leave anything to chance. Especially in light of just how visible and important to the overall reputation of WDW concerning the Monorails. No they don't design the motors or the operating systems that run them, but, they do specify what they expect out of them. When you build a house you don't specify every single individual 2X4 used in the construction, but, you do specify that it will be wood as opposed to metal and 2X4 instead of 2X6 construction or vice versa. So I don't believe for a minute that necessary detail isn't quite extensive. It would be totally irresponsible to do it any other way.

All I can say is if I were on the board of directors, and I found out that management committed that much money with out specifications that will meet every need and fully planned and, having rooms full of engineers (imagineers, if you like) and they didn't get to work with their design and design requirements, that management would be on the unemployment line very quickly. I don't know exactly what they do, but, I do know what any manufacturer would demand, but, would need specific requirements based on realistic engineering that will fit the need of the company. They set the requirements and they are bid on in a basic sense. Later when the reality sets in and building is happening, problems arise and then the manufacturer suggests changes or even Disney suggests changes. Those require change orders and those alone can sometime double, triple or even quadruple the costs of the projects.

But, like I said, I have never had a Monorail built, and I suspect you haven't either but are speculating on how you think it is done. Although Monorails were not my area, buildings, highways, earth moving, basic and water systems, sanitation systems and many other things were done, but, not without elaborate blue prints and requirements of the vendor spelled out with no doubt. We had our own engineers that would study the "blueprints", for lack of a better word, to determine the cost to give that end product to the customer. Also perhaps find a problem that cannot be done as is, and either decide against attempting to do it entirely or inform the customer of the problem for possible correction. All that before ever being awarded a contract.

So let's just agree to disagree about this since it really is unimportant for the fans point of view, but, how things like this are done to prevent lawsuits and injury due to flaws in the finish product are part of the process.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
That's a pretty much simplistic way of looking billions of dollars worth of investment. They, of course, do not nitpick every possible detail, but, they do specify what results they expect from that investment. They would be absolute fools to leave anything to chance. Especially in light of just how visible and important to the overall reputation of WDW concerning the Monorails. No they don't design the motors or the operating systems that run them, but, they do specify what they expect out of them. When you build a house you don't specify every single individual 2X4 used in the construction, but, you do specify that it will be wood as opposed to metal and 2X4 instead of 2X6 construction or vice versa. So I don't believe for a minute that necessary detail isn't quite extensive. It would be totally irresponsible to do it any other way.

All I can say is if I were on the board of directors, and I found out that management committed that much money with out specifications that will meet every need and fully planned and, having rooms full of engineers (imagineers, if you like) and they didn't get to work with their design and design requirements, that management would be on the unemployment line very quickly. I don't know exactly what they do, but, I do know what any manufacturer would demand, but, would need specific requirements based on realistic engineering that will fit the need of the company. They set the requirements and they are bid on in a basic sense. Later when the reality sets in and building is happening, problems arise and then the manufacturer suggests changes or even Disney suggests changes. Those require change orders and those alone can sometime double, triple or even quadruple the costs of the projects.

But, like I said, I have never had a Monorail built, and I suspect you haven't either but are speculating on how you think it is done. Although Monorails were not my area, buildings, highways, earth moving, basic and water systems, sanitation systems and many other things were done, but, not without elaborate blue prints and requirements of the vendor spelled out with no doubt. We had our own engineers that would study the "blueprints", for lack of a better word, to determine the cost to give that end product to the customer. Also perhaps find a problem that cannot be done as is, and either decide against attempting to do it entirely or inform the customer of the problem for possible correction. All that before ever being awarded a contract.

So let's just agree to disagree about this since it really is unimportant for the fans point of view, but, how things like this are done to prevent lawsuits and injury due to flaws in the finish product are part of the process.
You’re acting like hiring outside engineers is some hugely irresponsible thing. Disney doesn’t do their own blueprints for buildings. They hire 3rd party architects and engineers on a per project basis. You hire people with the expertise. That doesn’t mean you don’t coordinate and review.
 
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RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
What is the source of that rumor?

It seems unlikely that after collecting a parking fee at the TTC that WDW would then charge an extra $2 to get to the park entrance. Are they going to charge for the ferry, too?

Also unlikely that they'd charge $2 per ride for the folks already paying an outlandish premium for a monorail resort.
They charge in Tokyo...
 

The Mom

Moderator
Premium Member
Resort guests always had free access to the transport system. The only people ever charged were day guests with no ID and/or no ticket. Technically, the ticket policy still states the transport system is for resort guests and theme park ticket holders only. The only difference is they don't check and don't charge for people who aren't staying there or going to a park.

Its for people who were staying off site and say...went to golf at the Golf Resort, then took a bus to the TTC to take a monorail to dinner at Top of The World for "Broadway at the Top". The reason a ticket was included with all ticket books was ecause there is no way to get to the only park on property without one. This policy ended with Epcot. You needed the monorail to get across Seven Seas. The resort guest were encouraged to use the amenities at the other resorts and transport (local monorail) was reserved for resort guests to go play tennis and catch a show.

Yes, this is how I remember it from the opening of Epcot on - my first visit was in 1982. You had to show a resort ID to ride any resort transportation - I remember showing mine. Then they stopped checking for them - but I think (not sure) that they still COULD check, if the driver chose to do so?
 

Bender123

Well-Known Member
Yes, this is how I remember it from the opening of Epcot on - my first visit was in 1982. You had to show a resort ID to ride any resort transportation - I remember showing mine. Then they stopped checking for them - but I think (not sure) that they still COULD check, if the driver chose to do so?

They still checked IDs for the resort loop at park closing up until some point in the 90s...I remember they used to have a few cast members directing day guests to the express loop/ferry and checking key to the kingdom cards for local service. I cant remember when that ended, but it was only at specific times and for busy days.

In the 80s, I remember they would have a cast member checking for tickets/resort keys...but that went out about the same time the busses lost the flag system.
 

larryz

I'm Just A Tourist!
Premium Member
You could buy day passes if you just wanted to resort hop, but for the vast majority of people, yes, it was free. All "ticket" books included a transportation pass up until the introduction of the day pass, which then replaced the transport ticket for day guests.
I 'member reading verbiage about a dollar plus from each ticket going to WDW Transportation... Can't find an image, but I 'member...

Personally, I wouldn't mind if WDW decided to charge non-resort guests a nominal daily fee to ride WDW transportation. I don't think $24 per day is too much.
 

Jonathan Wang

Disney/Monorail Nut
I really feel that Disney is going to make a strong effort to have at least one by the 50th....... (21-22)
Agreed, I think bombardier would probably charge a rush fee of some sort, or try to meld the relationship that they had previously after the mark 6's. That being said I agree that 50 year anniversary timeline is something they want to shoot for.
Chinese JV
Honestly you don't want the monorail at shanghai disney, it would create more chaos than there already is, and with the design I feel it would be a disaster to add on. I will say the park was amazing while I was there tho, besides the people.
They charge in Tokyo...
Only because tokyo guests are use to paying for "monorail" transportation and that monorail only goes to the hotel/park, thats its ONLY purpose. They also have month passes just like the regular transportation in japan.

I 'member reading verbiage about a dollar plus from each ticket going to WDW Transportation... Can't find an image, but I 'member...

Personally, I wouldn't mind if WDW decided to charge non-resort guests a nominal daily fee to ride WDW transportation. I don't think $24 per day is too much.
ehhh that sounds a bit nuts, I go to Disney almost every week as a AP, if I had to pay everytime I would be a bit bothered. I look at the cost to park each time I enter, and lose my mind how much they charge for it. Also take into account for guests with kids above 6? if you charge 24 a a day per person, a normal family of lets say 4 your getting 96 bucks just to move through the parks.
 

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