News New Gondola Transportation - Disney Skyliner -

[Maeryk]

I expect this to be copied many times. There are also numerous US cites with plans on the table. This might just push those out the door

Ehh.. maybe. A lot of those cities have already been considering it. People predicted monorails all over the place when Disney opened and made them a showpiece.. yet.. there's a distinct lack of monorails around. The gondola systems are superior to just about any other elevated system because of the lack of a track. The towers can be quite spread out (some of the ones on the peak 2 peak are miles apart), and the service buildings can be vertical stacks, rather than requiring the shop size for a monorail or El train horizontally.

I think Disney is just taking advantage of a tested tech here, with the bonus of a 'new' experience at the resort, which minimizes the amount of actual building they have to do (in the way of roads, shops, etc).

 

[marni1971]

I expect this to be copied many times. There are also numerous US cites with plans on the table. This might just push those out the door

The Universal one would be a more public showcase.

Assuming they built one of course.

 

[Bocabear]

Especially with it traveling right over I-4... it would sure make UNiversal look even more amazing.

 

[marni1971]

Especially with it traveling right over I-4... it would sure make UNiversal look even more amazing.

That It would.

 

[monothingie]

Ehh.. maybe. A lot of those cities have already been considering it. People predicted monorails all over the place when Disney opened and made them a showpiece.. yet.. there's a distinct lack of monorails around. The gondola systems are superior to just about any other elevated system because of the lack of a track. The towers can be quite spread out (some of the ones on the peak 2 peak are miles apart), and the service buildings can be vertical stacks, rather than requiring the shop size for a monorail or El train horizontally.

I think Disney is just taking advantage of a tested tech here, with the bonus of a 'new' experience at the resort, which minimizes the amount of actual building they have to do (in the way of roads, shops, etc).

I respect that, but can we be honest here, the only reason why TDO is doing this, as compared to a monorail/light rail/ trolley/people mover is because it is the cheapest alternative.

Each system has their advantages and disadvantages and I think that it's been hashed out on this thread thoroughly. If monorail expansion were cost effective, we'd be talking about monorail footers being poured right now, and no one would give second thought to Gondolas. But because there is some doubt or uncertainty about this system, there is always going to be a need to compare it to something implemented and functional (like the monorail).

Let's see how this system shakes out. I have my doubts about a gondola system, but I'm willing to entertain it as a way to get more busses off the roads.

 

[Flalex72]

As to conflicting with a conveyor/disk.. think in three dimensions. A gondola can move up or down, making it much easier to deal with that sort of thing.

Systems already exist to transfer to a different drag rope vertically within a transfer building.

That said, this is all existing, tested, worked out tech. Much like going to Arrow or Vekoma and buying an off the shelf ride, where Disney basically just deals with the theming.

We're sort of going into the weeds here because in the end this isn't critical, but that is how a disk would have to be implemented. The issue is that the cabin couldn't drop down until it is past the centreline of the disk, so you would have less than 180 degrees of arc to board the cabin. A ski gondola might have the fell 180 degrees of arc as well as a couple of metres on each side.

As you say, the great thing here is that Gondolas are almost even more off-the-shelf than roller coasters as their flexibility is based on arranging existing components rather than modifying a full design. Any change to the existing design would have to be seen as worthwhile, and I would think that this isn't. It sounds like it's going to be a couple of pretty standard monocable gondolas, the important question from a guest experience perspective is how will the cabins be equipped? Seating, ventilation, communications and so on are the features that will directly impact guests.

 

[Maeryk]

I respect that, but can we be honest here, the only reason why TDO is doing this, as compared to a monorail/light rail/ trolley/people mover is because it is the cheapest alternative.

Each system has their advantages and disadvantages and I think that it's been hashed out on this thread thoroughly. If monorail expansion were cost effective, we'd be talking about monorail footers being poured right now, and no one would give second thought to Gondolas. But because there is some doubt or uncertainty about this system, there is always going to be a need to compare it to something implemented and functional (like the monorail).

Let's see how this system shakes out. I have my doubts about a gondola system, but I'm willing to entertain it as a way to get more busses off the roads.

I guess i'm not sure when saving money became a bad thing, or something to be mocked?

Monorail, light rail, and trolley all have a very specific issue. If the vehicle breaks, then A) everything must be suspended to clear the track so it can be removed, B) that vehicle is now out for the duration of repair, which can severely impact train operations, C) a grade must be cleared and leveled, or built, for them to operate on.

A gondola system eliminates virtually all of those issues. If a car is not functioning properly, pull it off the circuit and drop another one in. No muss, no fuss.

Peoplemovers issue is that it takes a hellacious amount of electricity to operate. Lims like a lot of juice, and energy cost has been a big factor in Disney designs for the last decade, as electricity prices continue to rise. The other problem with a Peoplemover is that it requires not just a grade, but it requires that said grade be covered and/or enclosed and climate controlled. Not a big deal when you are zipping around Tomorrowland in and out of climate controlled spaces, but a huge consideration when you are doing a 15 minute jaunt from Epcot to TTC, for example.

 

[Maeryk]

We're sort of going into the weeds here because in the end this isn't critical, but that is how a disk would have to be implemented. The issue is that the cabin couldn't drop down until it is past the centreline of the disk, so you would have less than 180 degrees of arc to board the cabin. A ski gondola might have the fell 180 degrees of arc as well as a couple of metres on each side.

As you say, the great thing here is that Gondolas are almost even more off-the-shelf than roller coasters as their flexibility is based on arranging existing components rather than modifying a full design. Any change to the existing design would have to be seen as worthwhile, and I would think that this isn't. It sounds like it's going to be a couple of pretty standard monocable gondolas, the important question from a guest experience perspective is how will the cabins be equipped? Seating, ventilation, communications and so on are the features that will directly impact guests.

I would expect to see double a double cable system (techincally 3.. one drive, two support), be implemented here.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Especially with it traveling right over I-4... it would sure make UNiversal look even more amazing.

Or tacky depending on how it looks

Now if Uni ever purchased SeaWorld and connected everything together....then things get more interesting

 

[Flalex72]

I would expect to see double a double cable system (techincally 3.. one drive, two support), be implemented here.

Martin has mentioned a couple times now, here and here, that capacity will be about 10 people per cabin, which puts the system squarely in the monocable range.

A 3S system requires larger towers, which are usually spread further apart in order to keep the system economical. Spreading them apart means making them taller to allow for the cables to dip between towers. A monocable system would therefore theoretically allow the system to remain closer to the ground. A 3S system improves capacity but at a fairly significant cost, a monocable system will carry roughly 3000 PPHPD while a 3S could do 4000-5000 PPHPD.

 

[flynnibus]

We're sort of going into the weeds here because in the end this isn't critical, but that is how a disk would have to be implemented.

It's not the only way it can be done... Who says the disk can't move up and down? Or that it is rigid/fixed?

You could make a ring that was level around the loading side, but slanted downward on the approach side to allow access from the line side.
You could have a circular conveyor that didn't even go under the gondola side at all - think of the metal slat system seen on airport luggage conveyors. The slats don't move relative to each other when on a constant radius, only when the radius changes.. which you could do away from the public accessible spots.

Lots of ways you could skin this cat if you want a turntable. I think a reason and good justification for the long straight approaches design would be because it can isolate load and unload nicely. Unload on a straightaway inbound, make the turn, then load on the opposite outbound leg. It also gives a layout that would support laying out switchbacks easy enough approaching load.

Someone leak some station plans already..

 

[marni1971]

Someone leak some station plans already..

There are no turntables or discs.

 

[flynnibus]

There are no turntables or discs.

Are we going to see long ramps as the queue to a loading platform like the monorail stations?

 

[marni1971]

Are we going to see long ramps as the queue to a loading platform like the monorail stations?

Load will mostly be at grade.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

I wonder what sort of security system they plan to implement to keep the mid-line towers 100% secure. They seem like a pretty big target to me. Middle of the woods (meaning lots of cover around), not easily accessible, and damage to one would be catastrophic. They could be the softest target at a high visability place like WDW.

 

[homerdance]

I wonder what sort of security system they plan to implement to keep the mid-line towers 100% secure. They seem like a pretty big target to me. Middle of the woods (meaning lots of cover around), not easily accessible, and damage to one would be catastrophic. They could be the softest target at a high visability place like WDW.

Guessing the same security they have for the mono rail now.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Guessing the same security they have for the mono rail now.

The difference though is if a pier on the monorail line was taken out, it would have to be timed when a train was over it. With a tower, it could be done remotely and at any time and take out every gondola on the line, and potentially more people in the connected stations as well.

 

[senor_jorge]

Without knowing the spacing, and a long list of other variables, it's probably premature to pronounce a single charge creating catastrophic damage. Cutting one tower/support isn't guaranteed to lead to a cascading failure of the the system or any/all components.

EDIT: There are ample targets at WDW and elsewhere. They can't all be defended 100% 24/7. I'd also expect that anyone with any real insight, would more than likely act like a professional and not speculate publicly.

 

[flynnibus]

I wonder what sort of security system they plan to implement to keep the mid-line towers 100% secure. They seem like a pretty big target to me. Middle of the woods (meaning lots of cover around), not easily accessible, and damage to one would be catastrophic. They could be the softest target at a high visability place like WDW.

You mean like the monorail beams have been?

 

[Flalex72]

The difference though is if a pier on the monorail line was taken out, it would have to be timed when a train was over it. With a tower, it could be done remotely and at any time and take out every gondola on the line, and potentially more people in the connected stations as well.

I would assume the tower bases would be protected from vehicle impact like the monorail supports have been over the past few years. Towers at ski resorts have collapsed in the past, but the haul rope generally remains intact. If a tower were to fail, depending on how the failure occurs, cabins may impact the ground while remaining attached to the haul rope, but any cabin not over that span would remain aloft. Regardless, any tower fault would be immediately detected and result in the system stopping automatically. There are multiple systems on each tower to detect the presence of the haul rope in the unlikely event of a deropement. There are also catchers on the sides of the sheave trains that are designed to hold up the haul rope should a minor deropement take place. A weather, passenger or mechanical issue is more likely than a deliberate attack. An aerial lift demands no more security than any other installation at WDW. We don't seem too concerned about car or truck bombs going off at hotels or Disney Springs, and we shouldn't be concerned about this.