News New Gondola Transportation - Disney Skyliner -

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Disney is great at research...

Their research discovered in 1965 that the temperature exceeds 72 degrees on average 320+ a year...and that relative humidity often exceeds 75%

Check with your weatherman and see what that tends to feel like in a hot box...just saying.

Their research would also have unearthed that their clientele is consistently spoiled and “me! Me!”

I always say “believe it when you see it”

This is the poster child for that.

 

[larryz]

Like vents at the top to let hot air out and vents at the bottom to replace it with cooler air being forced in by forward motion.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I would be amazed if they jack up the price too much on the resorts being served by this...yeah, its nice to have, but the upside financial savings and satisfaction increases from reducing busses would indicate that they are going to try to keep those hotels booked up as much as possible. Oddly, this is one time I am not surprised the costs are still at moderate cost levels (even though WDW definition of "moderate" doesn't make much sense anymore)

I wonder what the actual hourly cost of running this will be, but considering a massive decrease in staffing needs, fuel and other expenses, it must be a fraction of what the busses are currently costing. If this is successful, I wonder how quickly they will start rolling out more of these or other rumored mass transit options in a move to phase out more bus lines?

I’m curious as to why you think a place that prices direct access to parks at $350-$600 a night standard will allow a place with the closest direct link to be $180 a night?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

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Lol...the old ladies staying at Beach club won’t have any issue with that

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The project being approved was on the condition the serviced resorts pay for most of the cost over x amount of years.

To doubt that from the get go is on a whole nother plane...

I think - like the marvel contract - it’s gonna take a gigantic flashing billboard hovering above the property for people to finally believe that they no longer see the need for budget spenders in the old value or moderate class...

Maybe the skywriter can write that instead of “Jesus saves” everyday

 

[seascape]

To doubt that from the get go is on a whole nother plane...

I think - like the marvel contract - it’s gonna take a gigantic flashing billboard hovering above the property for people to finally believe that they no longer see the need for budget spenders in the old value or moderate class...

I agree that Disney is not interested in the budget customers staying on property. The third party Flamingo Crossing hotels are for the budget conscious consumers. The old value hotels are now for the moderates and the moderate hotels are for those with even more money and the Deluxe Hotels for the top 10%. However Universal is moving in the same direction. Orlando vacations are no longer for the middle class.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I agree that Disney is not interested in the budget customers staying on property. The third party Flamingo Crossing hotels are for the budget conscious consumers. The old value hotels are now for the moderates and the moderate hotels are for those with even more money and the Deluxe Hotels for the top 10%. However Universal is moving in the same direction. Orlando vacations are no longer for the middle class.

Because we are in a “boom”
And they are sliding down the greed pole - as usual.

A good old fashion loss of 30% on the stock market will be interesting to see in perpetually overbuild O-Town

 

[lazyboy97o]

There's a big difference between an enclosed vehicle and an open air boat. I don't really know much about these, and I don't even know if there's an example of these being used in a similar climate to look at. To me just looking at them don't seem to offer a lot of ventilation. I guess we'll find out soon enough either way.

Yes, there are gondolas in similar environments. This whole discussion is really a reflection of how poorly we build buildings. We surrounded ourselves with cheap crap that isn’t appropriate to its environment and it’s created the false impression that mechanical systems are the only means of providing ventilation and cooling.

I am trying to remember, are the stations supposed to be air conditioned? The effect may be worse if they are.
Going from hot and breezy to hot and breezy isn't that bad.
Going from cool and dry to hot and humid is definitely more of a shock.

The stations are open air.

 

[NormC]

Not everyone that goes on vacation give a damn about speed. Convenience, for sure? Comfort, for sure? A desire to pay more so they can walk in the open (no cover from resort to Gondola location), sit in the heat, even for a few minutes, get out and switch lines to get to other locations, not so much. I think it is a good option, but, it isn't anywhere near a benefit to most guests, it is in fact a pain.

No more pain than a bus. In my opinion it will be much better than waiting for and riding a bus.

 

[GoofGoof]

As an example, here are the 2017 transportation expense budgets for DVC resorts in USD per vacation point:
0.4158 Grand Floridian
0.5688 Polynesian Villas
0.3188 Bay Lake Tower

0.7074 Wilderness Lodge (Boulder Ridge)
0.4805 Animal Kingdom Villas
0.4006 Boardwalk Villas
0.2930 Beach Club
0.6221 Saratoga Springs
0.7353 Old Key West

From this, it's not clear to me whether the monorail DVCs are really paying for operating costs of the resort monorail, given how they are all much less than the operating costs of transportation at the Wilderness Lodge. Either that or the operating costs of the monorail are less than we imagine them to be. Or the fractional allocation of monorail expenses to the monorail resorts is small relative that that allocated to "parking at the TTC" or "transfer to Epcot".

At any rate, it will be interesting to see the Riviera number when it is set.

Good info for analysis.

Monorail DVCs are definitely paying for a portion of the operating costs of the resort monorail. The hotels also pay a portion through an internal transfer of the costs. The Express monorail that doesn’t stop at the resorts is not charged to the monorail resorts. A portion of the EPCOT line is also charged to the monorail resorts.

It’s hard to compare apples to apples since each resort has a different number of DVC rooms. For example, BLT is larger than VGF. It’s also the number of DVC vs non-DVC rooms. Since Poly DVC took out cash rooms and converted to DVC the % of DVC rooms is much higher than BLT as a % of all of CR. Based on this info I think it shows that buses are expensive. Resorts like OKW and SSR have some of the highest costs and are all buses except for the boats to Disney Springs. They are also 100% DVC so there are no cash hotel rooms to share the cost. Beach Club is the lowest and only has buses to 2 parks. What’s interesting is the same logic applies to Boardwalk with buses to only 2 parks but that expense is higher than BC. I think that’s more of a case of BW DVC is a much higher percentage of overall rooms than BC.

One other thing to consider is there may be a charge allocated to the resorts (both DVC and non-DVC) to recover the upfront capital cost of the transportation assets. They may spread the cost over 15 or 20 years. In the case of the monorail that capital charge was probably paid off before the DVC additions. They are only being charged for operations and maintenance. If they ever do add new monorails that would be when we could/would see the uptick in MFs to pay for a portion of them. I agree Riviera will be interesting to see. There is definitely going to be a charge for the gondolas and they will be on the hook for the whole cost of the station there.

 

[seascape]

Because we are in a “boom”
And they are sliding down the greed pole - as usual.

A good old fashion loss of 30% on the stock market will be interesting to see in perpetually overbuild O-Town

Unemployment is at 3.8% using the official number of 7.6 using U6. I always thought the U6 number was the rate we should use since it includes those working part time but want full time work. Based on these numbers the market has enough slack that we should not see a recession until 2020 at the earliest. So the stockmarket should keep going up another 10% or so through next summer and then level off. Dividends should continue to go up faster than inflation and incomes have started to rise faster than inflation. So both Disney and Universal should see increases in attendance. Now if I am wrong and a recession were to hit in 2020 Universal is the park which will get hit harder as WDW will still be celebrating the first year of Star Wars Galaxy Edge. Disney has the advantage of what is opening in 2019 to 2021.

 

[GoofGoof]

Yeah humidity is a big factor. An enclosed space with windows and filled with people is very difficult to cool to a reasonable temperature even with a good AC. Keeping this within 1.5 degrees of the outside temperature with only ventilation seems like a miraculous feat to me. If it works I'll want to go and see it just for that alone!

In fairness that quote was from a competitor of the company making these for Disney but it should be possible for them to do the same.

 

[Lensman]

Except people with access to knowledge on the long range plan (who have a long history of credibility) have stated FROM THE BEGINNING this was always the plan. This is not 'oh even a broken clock is right twice a day...'

Your hypothetical doesn't cover the scheme to redo the value/mod/deluxe labels either. So... ponder that one.

Instead of arguing what they will do or not, or if its REALLY want they are doing... why not sit back and take in the insight being offered and waiting to see if it pans out?

I'm not sure why you seem mad at me. I think it's likely that prices will go up and I don't think it's unreasonable, but I'm perfectly happy to wait and see what happens because I'm a DVC owner and hope I'll be able to get into the Riviera at the 7-month window at some point.

The purpose of my post was to point out why I think using the term "excuse" isn't reasonable, but perhaps I'm misunderstanding why this infuriates you? What do you want me to do or what do you want me to believe? I'd be happy to entertain your proposal. As I said above, I'm happy to wait and see what happens with the pricing and I'm not upset at Disney in the slightest. In fact, I'm happy to see them exploring this mode of transportation.

 

[flynnibus]

What do you want me to do or what do you want me to believe? I'd be happy to entertain your proposal. As I said above, I'm happy to wait and see what happens with the pricing and I'm not upset at Disney in the slightest. In fact, I'm happy to see them exploring this mode of transportation.

WDW1974 reported ages ago there was a specific plan where the marketing of the resorts would change from the 3 current tiers, to be the '<area> resorts' and the pricing models would adjust as part of that. The skyliner will be part of the justification of the pricing of these resorts which will result in a shift of the price point people expect now of these resorts. @marni1971 has also confirmed that pricing will adjust as part of this skyliner effort.

To come along and say "well, maybe the pricing WILL go up because of increased demand... not a plan to specifically alter the pricing models" tries to directly counter, or simply ignore these trusted sources and discount the outcome as some convenient coincidence. These folks don't share 'just to be right..' they share so we can all be better with greater information. Personally I think it's disrespectful to try to discredit their leaks with trivial dismissals like "well prices go up anyways" or "demand will be up, so of course prices will go".

You don't have to believe them... that's your own choice, but the dimissals over "the sun always rises.." kind of rebuttals are disrespectful IMO. And personally I'd rather they continue to share for all our benefits... vs leave frustrated because some people can't see past the tip of their noses.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I'm not sure why you seem mad at me. I think it's likely that prices will go up and I don't think it's unreasonable, but I'm perfectly happy to wait and see what happens because I'm a DVC owner and hope I'll be able to get into the Riviera at the 7-month window at some point.

The purpose of my post was to point out why I think using the term "excuse" isn't reasonable, but perhaps I'm misunderstanding why this infuriates you? What do you want me to do or what do you want me to believe? I'd be happy to entertain your proposal. As I said above, I'm happy to wait and see what happens with the pricing and I'm not upset at Disney in the slightest. In fact, I'm happy to see them exploring this mode of transportation.

Because apparently you didn’t take the rumors as gospel...there are several around That get mad at everything not accepted as face value on a Fan board.

And Flynn shouldn’t lecture you on DVC or WDW...based on the 20,000 word mission statement about a trip published last week...it seems that the place is foreign. Which opened my eyes after I gave lots of benefit of the doubt on DVC matters.

 

[MisterPenguin]

WDW1974 reported ages ago there was a specific plan where the marketing of the resorts would change from the 3 current tiers, to be the '<area> resorts' and the pricing models would adjust as part of that.

Well, we're still waiting for that inside rumor to actually happen. Next time someone has lunch with him in the Haunted Mansion restaurant, ask him when it's going to take place.

There's a difference between inside talk of what they may do and what they have definite plans to do. I'm sure raising rates to pay for the capital investment of the gondolas over and above the what the resorts have paid for bus service is something they have a definite plan for.

Getting back to 'tiers,' the 'tiers' designation is pretty useless as it is right now since there are huge swings in prices within each tier. You also need to know if the quoted cost from a value tier category is for a campground lot, a regular room, or a suite, and what its view is. Will that be $47/night or $247/night? When I select a tier on the WDW website for pricing, the result shows all just the resorts for that tier. But, when I input the dates, then bam!, tier designation is gone and I'm being shows all the resorts. Not to mention WDW keeps adding and moving around resort 'tiers' designations without any announcements (oh, hello Gateway Hotels, and the Swolphin and campgrounds are their own category now, and Good Neighbor...).

As far a rate increases, what if they went up 20%! For the basic Pop room at its usual $120 discounted rate, that would mean it would be $142. Which isn't too bad. I don't see the values jumping all the way up to what had traditionally been moderate pricing. But, just a guess on my part.

 

[Bender123]

I’m curious as to why you think a place that prices direct access to parks at $350-$600 a night standard will allow a place with the closest direct link to be $180 a night?

Because there is a huge room, amenity, resort theme and restaurant difference between the Poly and Pop...If they charged near $350/night for a Pop room, that would basically render the current "deluxe" resorts in the MK area as either garbage or they would need to raise room rates to an insane level, just to keep the distinction alive.

 

[Lets Respect]

I'm late to this and I'm sure this has already been stated somewhere in here, but do the gondolas stop completely to load riders?

 

[flynnibus]

Well, we're still waiting for that inside rumor to actually happen. Next time someone has lunch with him in the Haunted Mansion restaurant, ask him when it's going to take place.

There's a difference between inside talk of what they may do and what they have definite plans to do

Yes, but the talk of the last few days has been akin to saying "no there won't be any changes due to SWL because they haven't made any changes as of today!" - Well, it's not even DONE yet, so jumping to the conclusion now is pretty short sighted. No, releasing 2019 availability doesn't change that.

Everyone is quick to say "see, told ya!!" - when the music hasn't even stopped yet. Wait for it....

 

[flynnibus]

I'm late to this and I'm sure this has already been stated somewhere in here, but do the gondolas stop to load riders?

Stop completely... no. Slow down and change speed vs their 'on route' speed. Yes. It's possible for the gondolas to stop.. and we are still waiting to see how Disney leverages these extra paths in the stations.. if they will be used for loading those who need extra time.