News New Gondola Transportation - Disney Skyliner -

[xdan0920]

6/19/2019 - International Gateway
View attachment 291163

How many minutes ago?????

 

[Coaster Lover]

6/19/2019 - International Gateway
View attachment 291163

I hope it's further along by then!

 

[tirian]

After reading this thread, I am really excited about these gondolas. They're going to have everything!

-lightning strikes
-alligators
-hurricane winds
-suffocation
-dying riders
-Roman J. Israel, Esq.

A human stroller, which is when...

 

[HauntedMansionFLA]

I hope it's further along by then!

Sorry. Fixed

 

[Disone]

They can’t raise the prices for the gondola until the gondola is operational. You gonna raise the price at POP by 30% for let’s say, September 19. But then the gondola hits some delays and is not up and running. You have to wait. Even Disney has to make sure the system is finished and working before they start charging for it.

There are plenty of examples of ticket prices going up before the opening of a major expansion or E ticket. They typically don't wait until after the expansion or E ticket opens, and is a proven success to raise the ticket prices.

Ticket prices, and hotel rates, are raised when they believe the demand is there to do so.

While I do understand the theory to connect raising the rates to the opening of the Skyliner system, I've also never fully subscribed to that theory.

We didn't see a big jump in 2019 at just these Resorts, and I don't think you're going to see it in 2020 either. You might see it Resort wide as we get closer to the 50th but you're not going to see it at just the Skyliner specific resorts.

 

[xdan0920]

There are plenty of examples of ticket prices going up before the opening of a major expansion or E ticket. They typically don't wait until after the expansion or E ticket opens, and is a proven success to raise the ticket prices.

Ticket prices, and hotel rates, are raised when they believe the demand is there to do so.

While I do understand the theory to connect raising the rates to the opening of the Skyliner system, I've also never fully subscribed to that theory.

We didn't see a big jump in 2019 at just these Resorts, and I don't think you're going to see it in 2020 either. You might see it Resort wide as we get closer to the 50th but you're not going to see it at just the Skyliner specific resorts.

Ok

 

[cosmicgirl]

I think you nailed it. The expected price increase is due to both the new mode of transport and the fact that it takes you to SW Land. Since SW is not expected to open until “late fall” it makes a lot of sense that early fall hotel rooms would not see a price increase. Historically there is a small dip in attendance prior to a major new opening as people who are planning to attend near the time of opening tend to delay their vacation in the hopes of catching the new land/ride. I think this will be especially true for SW. Late fall into winter rates will probably move up as we get closer to an opening date and supply starts to get reduced.

Someone can correct me if this isn’t tue anymore, but hotels can be booked online up to 499 days in advance so we still can’t see Nov and Dec 2019 rates online. The room rates for the whole year are released sometime the year before. If people want to look for increased prices at the impacted resorts I would expect to see it in the 2020 rates when both SW land and the gondolas are definitely open.

Another thing to watch for is reduced discounting. In the fall they often offer free DDP and/or bulk rate discounts (something like 30% off packages). They may not increase the rack rate right away in 2019 when the gondolas open but rather cut the discounts down to account for any increase in demand. They could also reduce or eliminate CM and AP discounts as well.

Up to now I've read more posts from people trying to avoid SWL by planning their trip before the opening than posts from people who are trying to catch SWL. Whether there will be a pre-opening dip in attendance is left to be seen. Don't forget that the Mickey ride should be there to draw some crowds in September.

You are correct about the 499-day rule, however, you can in fact already see prices for the whole year by looking at the rate calendars for individual room types. Those rate calendars for all of 2019 are what I based my original post on. Even December, the safest bet for the average Joe who only knows about Disney's "late Fall" announcement, is not showing any out of the ordinary increases at the resorts I checked. I do agree that cutting discounts is a simple measure to keep up with increased demand, but the existing gondola resorts never get more than 10-20% anyway, especially not after September. I don't think it would have a huge impact on those resorts for that reason.

One thing to consider is the average guest doesn’t know the gondolas are rumored to be open in late spring 2019. I don’t think Disney would want to raise rates based on that without also announcing the opening. In other words if I’m “average Joe” the tourist and I look to book a Sept 2019 WDW trip and I see CBR is significantly more than the other moderates I’m likely to book elsewhere in the category. If Disney announces an official opening date or even opening season it becomes much more likely they would also raise rates with it to catch the guests booking at that resort just because of the new transport. This does leave the door open for people in the know to book now before it’s announced.

I do also think they may have a fear of the pre SW Land attendance dip for early fall 2019. People may look to delay booking until a more firm opening date for the new land is better known.

CBR is the cheapest of the moderates, so even if they had brought it in line with the others it wouldn't stand out to the average potential guest. You're right that only a very small percentage of guests are following the Skyliner progress close enough to know it'll likely open in about a year. However, the overall Disney fan base is expecting the gondolas to be operational when SWL opens, which brings us back to late Fall 2019. It would've been a safe bet to increase rack rates for that time of year, because that whole market is confident that the Skyliner will be open then. Therefore, at least some of them would be willing to pay more. I'm not saying that they should have increased the rates, I'm just saying that I'm surprised that they didn't.

 

[flynnibus]

Disney can change their hotel rates at any time. Sure they'll honor existing reservations, but many will change, it won't be fully booked, etc, and it really doesn't matter in the grand scheme.

Disney wouldn't want to roll out a change in overall scheme until they have the pieces in place to paint the pretty picture and justifications. So making such changes now would be a bit pre-mature. They'll simply roll out the changes when they are ready to announce dates... or when they are ready for a grander change in the model.

It makes more sense to eat the temporary loss in dollars for existing reservations... than it does to try to change your whole sales model and screw it up because you don't have a well delivered story.

 

[MisterPenguin]

The cost of rooms goes up way over rack the closer you get to the date (as long as rooms are selling out). WDW has raised rates over rack based on demand in the past. There's no doubt that cost will go up with the completion of Gondolas, MMRR, and SWL if not for the simple driver of demand pushing up costs.

 

[Disone]

The cost of rooms goes up way over rack the closer you get to the date (as long as rooms are selling out). WDW has raised rates over rack based on demand in the past. There's no doubt that cost will go up with the completion of Gondolas, MMRR, and SWL if not for the simple driver of demand pushing up costs.

Actually rack rate of a room is the legal maximum the hotel can charge for that room. It must be disclosed and the hotel cannot charge higher then that rack rate.

 

[Andrew C]

The cost of rooms goes up way over rack the closer you get to the date (as long as rooms are selling out). WDW has raised rates over rack based on demand in the past. There's no doubt that cost will go up with the completion of Gondolas, MMRR, and SWL if not for the simple driver of demand pushing up costs.

Actually rack rate of a room is the legal maximum the hotel can charge for that room. It must be disclosed and the hotel cannot charge higher then that rack rate.

You're both wrong!

 

[Disone]

You're both wrong!

Except I am really not.

 

[Andrew C]

Except I am really not.

Are you calling below the rack rate? Then yes, you're correct.

I always called that, the rate we never charge except maybe on New Year's Eve.

 

[Disone]

Are you calling below the rack rate? Then yes, you're correct.

I always called that, the rate we never charge except maybe on New Year's Eve.


View attachment 291293

Correct. It is the legal maximum the hotel can charge for the room. Rarely is that rate the actual rate charged.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Actually rack rate of a room is the legal maximum the hotel can charge for that room. It must be disclosed and the hotel cannot charge higher then that rack rate.

If rack rates change by season (which is often determined by anticipated demand), and, if they can be changed at will...

Then, in effect, and practically, wouldn't they be able to raise rates at will, especially if in high demand?

E.g.... https://www.mousesavers.com/2018-pop-century-room-rates-season-dates/

I'm not debating, I just would like to learn what the deal is.

 

[Disone]

If rack rates change by season (which is often determined by anticipated demand), and, if they can be changed at will...

Then, in effect, and practically, wouldn't they be able to raise rates at will, especially if in high demand?

E.g.... https://www.mousesavers.com/2018-pop-century-room-rates-season-dates/

I'm not debating, I just would like to learn what the deal is.

Rack rates are usually for a year. Hotel rates can fluxuate based on the season but can never exceed the posted rack rate for the year.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Rack rates are usually for a year. Hotel rates can fluxuate based on the season but can never exceed the posted rack rate for the year.

So, then, looking at the linked chart, the basic Pop room rack rate is $238 (last week of December) and the rest of those prices are seasonal discounts?

 

[Disone]

So, then, looking at the linked chart, the basic Pop room rack rate is $238 (last week of December) and the rest of those prices are seasonal discounts?

Kind of but not really. Rate racks at reputible establishments are VERY rarely charged. Almost all the time, regardless of season, the actual rate charged lower for any one or perhaps even serveral reason. It is somewhat expected that selling rate will be lower then the rack rate. Think of rack rate like the.published price of a new car. Sure the car can sell for that price but the vast majority of the time it sells for less and for various reasons that differ from buyer to buyer.

 

[Goofyernmost]

You're both wrong!

A hotel can change their rack rate whenever they feel like it. There is no "legal" rate. It is up to them. Where does anyone get the idea of a legal rate. It is the highest that they will charge as long as they don't change it. They can change it at anytime that they want too. They are the ones that determine what it is and when it will be used. It is based on what the public will accept and if they want to stay there they will have to accept it. Simple really. Now it could backfire for the resort if it is too high and no one goes there, but, that isn't likely to happen anytime soon at WDW.

 

[peter11435]

A hotel can change their rack rate whenever they feel like it. There is no "legal" rate. It is up to them. Where does anyone get the idea of a legal rate. It is the highest that they will charge as long as they don't change it. They can change it at anytime that they want too. They are the ones that determine what it is and when it will be used. It is based on what the public will accept and if they want to stay there they will have to accept it. Simple really. Now it could backfire for the resort if it is too high and no one goes there, but, that isn't likely to happen anytime soon at WDW.

That’s actually not true.