News New Gondola Transportation - Disney Skyliner -

[marni1971]

But is there going to be a/c in any new monorails ?

Open the windows. They learnt from Anaheim.

 

[MisterPenguin]

13. Pedestrian walkways or redesign/construction to all the new stations.
...
16. Are they having this project pay for the new bus stations at the Studios and the redesigned entrance configuration?

The CBR station is getting a whole new roadway and bus station reconfiguration. And the Riviera station has the cost of the pedestrian walkway from hotel to station.

And the gondolas are each getting wraps.

 

[cbconglom]

There's a dedicated thread to discuss its veracity.

thanks! I acutally posed the question to Martin before the thread started. I checked for a thread first. I am following the new thread now.

 

[truecoat]

Lets say it costs $500k to operate one bus for a year. Double what you said.
Lets also say this takes 50 buses off the road. Also high.
Thats a full 10 years before this breaks even at $250m.

Can't put a price on less traffic.

 

[GoofGoof]

It’s more than rumour amazingly.

There has to be some funny math going on there. Someone’s burying costs for other things in this project or something.

 

[GoofGoof]

Sinking the towers would, in theory, cost more here than at a mountain.

If we're napkin'ing, we need to cost:
1. 3 single terminal stations.
2. 1 through on/off station. not custom, but not usual
3. 1 turn station. not usual
4. 1 triple terminal station. This might actually just be 3 terminal stations under one roof.
5. 3 drive systems (assuming the 3 segments of the Epcot line will share one drive system.
6. 3 miles of cable and towers.
7. Enclosing structure for certain stations - Pop and CBR, not sure about the others since the *might* be plain (yuk!)
8. Extra work to put Pop station in the middle of the lake.
9. Extra work to put Studios station partway into its lake.
10. Extra work to put the Boardwalk turn station into the pond. (Why are so many structures being built in water?)
11. Florida swamp footings for all towers. I'm assuming this costs more than the footings at ski resorts since those are usually right on top of granite.
12. Clearing the land under the guideways and reinforcing them for construction and emergency vehicle use.
13. Pedestrian walkways or redesign/construction to all the new stations.
14. Other upfront total cost of ownership stuff like training for operations and maintenance. Also, are they paying upfront for a Doppelmayr maintenance contract?
15. Redesign and construction of new International Gateway entrance.
16. Are they having this project pay for the new bus stations at the Studios and the redesigned entrance configuration?
17. $3.8 million for the electrical work.
18. Cost of additional retention pond capacity.

After you account for all this, you add 20% for overage. Even then this doesn't account for things that we haven't thought of - usually you double the cost estimates to account for those overages. lol

I get that there are some unique challenges to building in FL, but these gondolas are most often installed literally on the side of a mountain. Many systems have significantly taller towers and stretch over longer distances as well. Building lower towers on flat land should make it quicker and cheaper. I assume building multiple stations is what’s mostly driving the costs up, but even the stations don’t appear all that elaborate or unique. It’s puzzling how the cost could get up into the hundreds on millions.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I may have had to look up Nowt...lol

Northern English meaning "nothing". He forgets from time to time that we have our own language over here and nowt, is not part of it. Just another weak attempt to hang onto the colonies. Not sure why they would want them at this time, but, it has been a British quest for a couple of centuries now, however, nowt has come of it.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I get that there are some unique challenges to building in FL, but these gondolas are most often installed literally on the side of a mountain. Many systems have significantly taller towers and stretch over longer distances as well. Building lower towers on flat land should make it quicker and cheaper. I assume building multiple stations is what’s mostly driving the costs up, but even the stations don’t appear all that elaborate or unique. It’s puzzling how the cost could get up into the hundreds on millions.

Other then the actual cost of a Gondola that someone says runs 3 plus miles (I'm guessing 6 miles round trip)... Cars, cable, drive motors, etc., the setting of all kinds to footings, some requiring deeply driven pilings so that they don't tip over in the damp soil would cost a lot. Very few companies would build it at a loss, so, what it really boils down to there is a lot more to construction then just the thing that gets constructed. The engineering and planning alone would also be included in those costs even if they do it themselves. Just about every department under the Disney umbrella is it's own profit center and has to get paid for their efforts.

 

[GoofGoof]

Other then the actual cost of a Gondola that someone says runs 3 plus miles (I'm guessing 6 miles round trip)... Cars, cable, drive motors, etc., the setting of all kinds to footings, some requiring deeply driven pilings so that they don't tip over in the damp soil would cost a lot. Very few companies would build it at a loss, so, what it really boils down to there is a lot more to construction then just the thing that gets constructed. The engineering and planning alone would also be included in those costs even if they do it themselves. Just about every department under the Disney umbrella is it's own profit center and has to get paid for their efforts.

Any similar project has engineering, planning and construction beyond the system being installed. We can beat this dead horse all night going back and forth but I don’t want to sidetrack the thread any further so I’ll leave it at this. Even with Disney’s history of bloated project budgets I am having a hard time wrapping my head around this project costing upwards of 10X projects with similar systems. Just my opinion and it’s fine for anyone to disagree or feel that it’s an understandable cost.

 

[SLUSHIE]

I was thinking, since these will likely run late into the night its possible they will have on board lighting. I tried to find a photo of Vail's gondola One at night, but I can't find any. It looks really neat at night though.

They aren't super bright inside, think of the type of light you typically have in a car.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I was thinking, since these will likely run late into the night its possible they will have on board lighting. I tried to find a photo of Vail's gondola One at night, but I can't find any. It looks really neat at night though.

They aren't super bright inside, think of the type of light you typically have in a car.

Almost the entirety of the gondolas' journey will be traveling over parking lots or along roads and will be within 50 feet of light poles. No need for interior lighting, just like buses late at night.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Any similar project has engineering, planning and construction beyond the system being installed. We can beat this dead horse all night going back and forth but I don’t want to sidetrack the thread any further so I’ll leave it at this. Even with Disney’s history of bloated project budgets I am having a hard time wrapping my head around this project costing upwards of 10X projects with similar systems. Just my opinion and it’s fine for anyone to disagree or feel that it’s an understandable cost.

You certainly have the right to your opinion and if it is true that it is 10 times what an absolute comparable project would be costing, I still am puzzled as to how you are so sure that what you believe the amount that Disney is paying for this is actually what they are paying for it. Disney does not give out that information and it is a bear to break down through the different cost module it passes. I also don't understand why it is any of our business what they spend on things. They are making a profit so even shareholders should be OK, with everything. In other words... why does it matter one way or the other?

 

[HauntedMansionFLA]

Good thing you are not being forced to ride them!!!!!

You can’t FP+ them??

 

[TiggerDad]

Lets say it costs $500k to operate one bus for a year. Double what you said.
Lets also say this takes 50 buses off the road. Also high.
Thats a full 10 years before this breaks even at $250m.

Break even is not just on the cost of buses being replaced. Disney gets other benefits from this, including ability to sell all those rooms at a much higher price point.

 

[SLUSHIE]

My estimate for the cost of the gondola system itself, is around $70 million.

Also, while efficient, these things aren't all that cheap to run especially with the way Disney will staff it with security etc. The hourly operational cost could easily be 10k.

Honestly though, if you were in lift maintenance and weren't actually all the fond of skiing, this would probably be a pretty sweet gig.

 

[GlacierGlacier]

Hopefully you can!! I so hate waiting in line for anything....even killer gondolas.

Why would you be able to fastpass something that isn't even in the park?

How would that even count towards your total FP+ count?

And even if it did exist, would it be only one-way? Or even if it was two way, there's three whole lines on the gondolas.

Maybe an alternate line for resort guests? Allow them to get back to their resort faster?

But even then, it would appear that the loading/throughput of these things would only warrant a line like that only on the most insane days.

Any situation I can think of would be a logistical nightmare.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Why would you be able to fastpass something that isn't even in the park?

How would that even count towards your total FP+ count?

And even if it did exist, would it be only one-way? Or even if it was two way, there's three whole lines on the gondolas.

Maybe an alternate line for resort guests? Allow them to get back to their resort faster?

But even then, it would appear that the loading/throughput of these things would only warrant a line like that only on the most insane days.

Any situation I can think of would be a logistical nightmare.

I agree with you 100%... Gondola FPs should be for sale.

 

[GlacierGlacier]

I agree with you 100%... Gondola FPs should be for sale.

My sarcasm detector is flaring up but I can't be quite certain.

 

[azox]

I do hope that the Eiffel Tower is reimagined, to be greater in scale, because it seems dwarfed by the support tower. Also, I wonder how visible it will be from other pavilions within World Showcase.

Maybe they could add a nice lighting package to the Eiffel tower too like we see in the Soarin video.

 

[larryz]

I was thinking, since these will likely run late into the night its possible they will have on board lighting. I tried to find a photo of Vail's gondola One at night, but I can't find any. It looks really neat at night though.

They aren't super bright inside, think of the type of light you typically have in a car.

Ah, yes... Paradise By The Dashboard Light -- Meatloaf.