News New Gondola Transportation - Disney Skyliner -

[Bender123]

There is a sensor at the top that drops a guillotine when it hits the last tire in the station.

Universal has some ideas on this...

 

[orky8]

One of the gondolas where I work has three modes... all cabins, half cabins or 16 cabins in what is called pulse mode. We take all cabins off at the end of each day and start fresh every morning with the mode based on expected demand.

I suspect Disney will have almost all their cabins in service at all times. With long operating hours, they may only park all the cabins for a rare occasion like a hurricane. It is normal to have a few cabins out of service for maintenance at any given time and Disney may opt to buy extras. It looks like there will be one central cabin parking and maintenance facility at CBR South.

Thank you. As I suspected - @flynnibus it's not a simple matter to just pull off a gonodola or put them back on.

 

[Bender123]

That video shows the entire line (cable wheel) being slowed as well. You can hear and see the flywheel is moving slower when they accommodate the wheelchair.

Its also not stopping the whole system...

 

[orky8]

Its also not stopping the whole system...

What's your point? The argument was that the system can just run normal on the cable and make up the space in the station -- that was clearly not the case. When they slowed the station speed they slowed the rope speed. And, when they inevitably need to stop the station on occasion, it appears they will need to stop the cable. There simply isn't enough buffer to run the two independently.

Moreover, this just goes to show why this is a great system for some uses, but has capacity and surge far less than the monorails. You can't cite every flaw in the monorails, some easily fixed, and then use pixie-dust goggles to view the gondolas. Treat them the same. Oh, and the monorails are air conditioned

 

[danlb_2000]

So...have we figured out how it's going to break and kill us all yet?

There are so many possibilities it's hard to narrow down which one it will actually be.

 

[_caleb]

That video shows the entire line (cable wheel) being slowed as well. You can hear and see the flywheel is moving slower when they accommodate the wheelchair.

You're right- in the video you can clearly see that they slowed the entire line to give the passenger more time to load. But take a look at the ceiling- there is another track for gondolas to be pulled out of line for stationary boarding. If this were being utilized, the line would not need to slow down at all.

 

[DisneyJeff]

Maybe we should start a poll on the most likely way to die on the Disney Magical Death Traps in the Sky . My vote is: Because Disney hasn't done transportation like this before, there is no guarantee that the cars will stay on the line. I'm thinking they will hit a bump on one of the tower wheels and the cabin will come crashing to the ground below. At least for those few moments while falling, the guests will be happy because of the extra ventilation.

 

[Lift Blog]

You're right- in the video you can clearly see that they slowed the entire line to give the passenger more time to load. But take a look at the ceiling- there is another track for gondolas to be pulled out of line for stationary boarding. If this were being utilized, the line would not need to slow down at all.

The use of parking/maintenance rails for stationary loading has never been done before to my knowledge. The problem is where do you find space to re-inject the cabin on an already closely-spaced line?

 

[flynnibus]

Thank you. As I suspected - @flynnibus it's not a simple matter to just pull off a gonodola or put them back on.

Nice selective memory... I'll refresh it for you

If you don't have any off-line capacity, you have a built in buffer that allows for late dispatches (system is not at full density). If cascading is at risk... you simply slow the main line to avoid the cascade and full stop. If worst comes to worse... you stop the line.

What Liftblog outlined is what I said above. Running the cabin load at different levels alters your timing sensitivity. The fuller you are, the less variance you have. But I'm sure the system tries to balance the spacing as much as possible.

At the end of the day, slowing the line isn't a big deal.

For all we know Disney could be ordering special ECV friendly cabins too...

 

[flynnibus]

The use of parking/maintenance rails for stationary loading has never been done before to my knowledge. The problem is where do you find space to re-inject the cabin on an already closely-spaced line?

Same thing you do in Disney's side loading attractions now... leave gaps.

Personally I think it's just too cumbersome of a process to rely on for this kind of frequency. They'll address the loading problem first I'm sure.

 

[chiefs11]

I'm pretty sure the spacing between cabins is a set interval... any slowdown on the loading platform would have a proportional slow down of the cable to maintain the same interval.

ETA: Just watched the video above.....that's exactly how it works.

 

[orky8]

Nice selective memory... I'll refresh it for you

Selective memory? Flynn, you said the following, which is what I was referring to (bold added):

Your skewed this to your view

Both systems are capable of variable capacity... both systems have a max capacity as well.

The difference is in vehicle capacity, loading times, and minimum spacing required. These factors limit the dispatch intervals and ultimately the total throughput and average wait times.

You also ignore how fast the system can adapt. Monorails can be added or removed, but it is a long disruptive process that impacts existing traffic. Gondolas can be added or removed with almost zero disruption.

....

Which, by the way is not true, as state below

One of the gondolas where I work has three modes... all cabins, half cabins or 16 cabins in what is called pulse mode. We take all cabins off at the end of each day and start fresh every morning with the mode based on expected demand.

Furthermore, monorails actually could be very easy to add or remove capacity. The below video shows how quickly a switch (such as to a spur with additional trains on standby) could be used.

 

[chiefs11]

You're right- in the video you can clearly see that they slowed the entire line to give the passenger more time to load. But take a look at the ceiling- there is another track for gondolas to be pulled out of line for stationary boarding. If this were being utilized, the line would not need to slow down at all.

I assume you are referring to the 15:30mark in the video, I assume that track goes to the storage/maintenance area.. it wouldn't be used for loading or unloading guests.

 

[Bender123]

Nice selective memory... I'll refresh it for you


What Liftblog outlined is what I said above. Running the cabin load at different levels alters your timing sensitivity. The fuller you are, the less variance you have. But I'm sure the system tries to balance the spacing as much as possible.

At the end of the day, slowing the line isn't a big deal.

For all we know Disney could be ordering special ECV friendly cabins too...

If you look at any omnimover ride, there is a "slow" button that slows the system temporarily to load a difficult person. The ride stops in rare situations, but we know that. We also stand outside a bus for two minutes and have seen the monorail platform staff need to bring out the ramps, because the MarkVI trains have a good six inches of height over the platforms. All of these come with some sort of trade off, but to act like this problem doesn't exist (or is more severe) on other Disney transport vehicles is simply ignoring the current reality.

http://www.rollingwiththemagicblog.com/walt-disney-world-monorail/

 

[G00fyDad]

Throw the whole system in the trash then. Because it is just so darn complicated and people are just so darn stupid for it to ever work.

Do you hear yourself? Coming up with every excuse as to why it won't work. If everyone thought like this, we would still be living in the stone age. Goodness...

There are going to some people here and there that struggle from time to time. The system will be able to handle this with little impact if CMs are trained in appropriate best practices.

Do you hear yourself? I even said that the majority of people will be able to handle this. I just think it is pretty stupid to say that no one is going to have trouble with this because it is foolproof. But of course you're not going to see that I said that because you want to argue about this. So I will say this and leave you to yourself to argue with...

1) There are going to be people that cannot handle this very simple thing of getting their stroller or ECV on the ride.
2) Most people will be able to deal with it fine.
3) I am still looking forward to the Skyliner and look forward to trying it out.
4) I do not have the time to keep stating the obvious or restating my points that go on being missed.

Good day.

 

[flynnibus]

Selective memory? Flynn, you said the following, which is what I was referring to (bold added):



Which, by the way is not true, as state below

Try stepping back from the leap you just made from Liftblog's comments. Understand the difference between what can be done, and what their choice of operating model is. Because they chose their mode at the start of the day, does not mean it's not possible to change it. In Disney's case, they would likely run full capacity anyways.. because there is less to gain from NOT running vehicles (compared to the cycles monorails take)

Furthermore, monorails actually could be very easy to add or remove capacity. The below video shows how quickly a switch (such as to a spur with additional trains on standby) could be used.

Nice video that shows the switch action - but fails to address what it takes to allow that switch to be operating and what it does to the normal traffic pattern on that beam (and all the zones/blocks leading UP to that switch).

The problem with the monorail beam switching was highlighted with the recent fatal crash. Things like the switch only allows traffic in one direction... use of the switch blocks all other adjacent blocks. It's a significant orchestrated process that disrupts far more than just that one piece of track. Now try to have a system that switches all over the place like you described... and complexity (and cost) go through the roof. There is are reasons no monorail in the world is built like your suggested...

 

[orky8]

If you look at any omnimover ride, there is a "slow" button that slows the system temporarily to load a difficult person. The ride stops in rare situations, but we know that. We also stand outside a bus for two minutes and have seen the monorail platform staff need to bring out the ramps, because the MarkVI trains have a good six inches of height over the platforms. All of these come with some sort of trade off, but to act like this problem doesn't exist (or is more severe) on other Disney transport vehicles is simply ignoring the current reality.

http://www.rollingwiththemagicblog.com/walt-disney-world-monorail/

I'm aware of the design flaw with the Mark VI trains that requires the use or ramps for ECVs/wheelchairs. There is no reason that flaw needs to continue on the next generation of rolling stock. But, even so, that adds little to the overall dispatch time as there are only a few allowed per monorail.

 

[becca_]

There are so many possibilities it's hard to narrow down which one it will actually be.

It's a good thing we have 800 gondola experts in this thread! They can help narrow down to the top 3 causes of death by Disney Gondola!

 

[orky8]

Try stepping back from the leap you just made from Liftblog's comments. Understand the difference between what can be done, and what their choice of operating model is. Because they chose their mode at the start of the day, does not mean it's not possible to change it. In Disney's case, they would likely run full capacity anyways.. because there is less to gain from NOT running vehicles (compared to the cycles monorails take)



Nice video that shows the switch action - but fails to address what it takes to allow that switch to be operating and what it does to the normal traffic pattern on that beam (and all the zones/blocks leading UP to that switch).

The problem with the monorail beam switching was highlighted with the recent fatal crash. Things like the switch only allows traffic in one direction... use of the switch blocks all other adjacent blocks. It's a significant orchestrated process that disrupts far more than just that one piece of track. Now try to have a system that switches all over the place like you described... and complexity (and cost) go through the roof. There is are reasons no monorail in the world is built like your suggested...

I don't care about what can be done -- there is nothing to indicate the Disney is using or designing a system that will be allowing for stationary boarding or variable gondola introduction. All intel is this is a commercial off-the-shelf gondola system.

Moreover, the issues with monorail beam switching is easily alleviated by automating the system (as is the case for the monorail in Las Vegas).

But the biggest issue is what you seem to give the gondola pixie dust assumptions based on what the system can do, but refuse to do so based on what the monorail can do. And, the biggest difference is there are actual examples of monorails doing what I'm saying. Not so for your gondola "operating models." Again:

The use of parking/maintenance rails for stationary loading has never been done before to my knowledge. The problem is where do you find space to re-inject the cabin on an already closely-spaced line?

 

[SLUSHIE]

The use of parking/maintenance rails for stationary loading has never been done before to my knowledge. The problem is where do you find space to re-inject the cabin on an already closely-spaced line?

Exactly.

Granted the lift I worked on was much older, but the process for adding or removing a cabin during normal operation generally went like this...

• Make space to drop the rail
  • Manually push all the cabins forward to feed the launch to create a gap. Generally, there is more space between cabins than there actually needs to be, so in order to create a gap, you would push all the cabins forward for a few minutes to make the gap between those cabins as small as possible, creating a bigger gap behind them.
• Stop the lift completely
• Drop the rail
• Load the cabin
• Lift the rail
• Start the lift