News New Gondola Transportation - Disney Skyliner -

[Bender123]

You're way off.

Cars could take on average 96 guests and cycle time was 32 minutes, with a 24 minute ride time, and 4 minutes each for load and unload.

Sources 1982 WED specification, 1982 SoP and 2015 SoP.

We are now on to UoE...its actually kind of fun to do this math and how things move in these types of systems. As a math researcher (stats guy), its really cool to work real world problems. UoE having a near 2000 person capacity doesn't change that it is still effectively slower at getting people processed through a system as a much smaller, but more frequent dispatch cycle.

Im guessing the Disney folks looked at monorails, did the math and figured they can move more people, with less "down time"/batch waiting for guests and save a metric ton of money by going with the Gondola system. We all know the insane costs of adding monorail service, so the reasonable solution, even if monorail were more efficient in a minor degree, which it is not by any stretch, would be to go with a slight reduction in efficiency for a 10x savings on cost.

I just get a lot of feeling that we are all so connected to the history of monorails and old WDW that we really will fight losing battles just to keep out memories in tact. Disney is a business...they didn't do this in a vacuum and I am sure they know what throughput is for every mode of transport they can imagine.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

You're way off.

Cars could take on average 96 guests and cycle time was 32 minutes, with a 24 minute ride time, and 4 minutes each for load and unload.

Sources 1982 WED specification, 1982 SoP and 2015 SoP.

Oh yeah? Well my source is Biff, cleaner 2011-2012. Take that!
I did think the number was awfully low, not in line with the EPCOT goal of only mega high-capacity E-tickets.

As an aside, the numbers yield 2160 rather than 1930?
((96*6)32/60)*2=2160

Aside II, so the audiences have been scared into thinking they could not leave their cars for 38 minutes for all these years. I wonder if Energy could've had more riders and better satisfaction if the announcement had been "you can't leave your vehicle for 24 minutes".

 

[marni1971]

As an aside, the numbers yield 2160 rather than 1930?".

There was a certain amount of slack due to size of guest, wheelchairs (max two per car which would lift each car to 98 guests if they were average sized) and amount of wheelchair companions.

 

[TiggerDad]

Oh yeah? Well my source is Biff, cleaner 2011-2012.

I heard that Biff got promoted to bus driver....

 

[Kamikaze]

Here are some stats from 5:00 pm-midnight last night at one of the gondolas where I work:

1,946 total riders
133 elderly folks
14 strollers
4 wheelchairs
9 people with canes
Tons of small children

1 minute 20 seconds total stoppage time (0.3%)
10 seconds of slow time (0.04%)

This is on a gondola without level walk-in so each wheelchair load/unload requires a stop.

How does your system (besides the it not being level loading) compare to what WDW is getting?

 

[Lift Blog]

How does your system (besides the it not being level loading) compare to what WDW is getting?

Other than manufacturer and no level-walk in, it's very similar. 8-passenger cabins, 1000 feet per minute, 2,400 pphpd capacity. We only ran with half the cabins last night and there were never any lines.

The 8-passenger 2016 Doppelmayr here only runs in the winter but is exactly what Disney ordered. We are going to run it for the upcoming eclipse which should be interesting.

 

[Kamikaze]

Other than manufacturer and no level-walk in, it's very similar. 8-passenger cabins, 1000 feet per minute, 2,400 pphpd capacity. We only ran with half the cabins last night and there were never any lines.

The 8-passenger 2016 Doppelmayr here only runs in the winter but is exactly what Disney ordered. We are going to run it for the upcoming eclipse which should be interesting.

Interesting. What percentage of totality are you getting from the mountain?

 

[Lift Blog]

Interesting. What percentage of totality are you getting from the mountain?

100 percent for 2:21 just before noon.

 

[Kamikaze]

100 percent for 2:21 just before noon.

Awesome!

 

[MiddKid]

Other than manufacturer and no level-walk in, it's very similar. 8-passenger cabins, 1000 feet per minute, 2,400 pphpd capacity. We only ran with half the cabins last night and there were never any lines.

The 8-passenger 2016 Doppelmayr here only runs in the winter but is exactly what Disney ordered. We are going to run it for the upcoming eclipse which should be interesting.

Jackson Hole?

 

[Lift Blog]

Jackson Hole?

Yep.

 

[Goob]

I'm in Chattanooga and we are getting 100% too. Gonna be sweet, can't wait.

 

[Rob562]

For those concerned about loading/unloading an ECV driven by a first-time ECV driver, I had a thought: remove the driver from the equation.

If the driver is ambulatory enough to transfer from the ECV to the cabin, they can do so with the ECV driving parallel to the cabin. If the guest isn't mobile enough, they transfer to a standard wheelchair, which has been shown can easily be maneuvered into the cabin.
Either way, a CM then drives the ECV into the next (or preceding) cabin and leaves it there by itself. At the other end, a CM backs the ECV out of the cabin and the driver is reunited with it. Yes, it'll ding the throughput by using up an extra cabin for each ECV, but that might be an improvement over any slows or stops they have to make on the line.

Yes, I realize it's not an ideal setup, and it's probably a huge pain when having to transfer between lines at CBR South, but it's an idea they could implement at least for Guests who can't do it themselves.

-Rob

 

[marni1971]

What is a WDW average size, just wondering?

I have no idea.

 

[Movielover]

What is a WDW average size, just wondering?

Thats simple, it's size...

 

[Incomudro]

What is a WDW average size, just wondering?

Larger than the average sized American who is much larger than he or she was decades ago.

 

[MaximumEd]

Meh, I'm 5'7" and 165. My wife and daughter aren't big. There's still a lot of average folk around, but the big ones do seem bigger and I agree with the overall point about our expanding waistline as a whole.

 

[John park hopper]

FYI CDC states 2/3 of US pop is considered overweight, 1/3 of those are considered obese. Guess Disney has to accomodate the larger size Americans.

 

[allgiggles]

For those concerned about loading/unloading an ECV driven by a first-time ECV driver, I had a thought: remove the driver from the equation.

If the driver is ambulatory enough to transfer from the ECV to the cabin, they can do so with the ECV driving parallel to the cabin. If the guest isn't mobile enough, they transfer to a standard wheelchair, which has been shown can easily be maneuvered into the cabin.
Either way, a CM then drives the ECV into the next (or preceding) cabin and leaves it there by itself. At the other end, a CM backs the ECV out of the cabin and the driver is reunited with it. Yes, it'll ding the throughput by using up an extra cabin for each ECV, but that might be an improvement over any slows or stops they have to make on the line.

Yes, I realize it's not an ideal setup, and it's probably a huge pain when having to transfer between lines at CBR South, but it's an idea they could implement at least for Guests who can't do it themselves.

-Rob

I've never driven an ECV so I don't know the answer to this, but how difficult is it to pack up in a straight line? My thought was that the CM would have the person in the ECV all lined up and ready to back in when the empty car approached. I'm thinking that a CM or family member could even help with the steering if needed as the driver backs into the car. I can understand why maneuvering an ECV in to the appropriate space on a bus is challenging for new drivers -- it's not a "straight shot" in to the spot, but for someone using the gondola, they should (in my inexperienced view) be able to back straight in to the car without much difficulty I would think. Offloading would then be a simple straight drive out. I'm sure Disney has this all worked out already but it sure would be nice if they shared that info so we don't have to wonder about it for the next 18 months and could move on to more important issues like: What happens if the doors on the car don't automatically close when leaving the station????

 

[Rob562]

I've never driven an ECV so I don't know the answer to this, but how difficult is it to pack up in a straight line? My thought was that the CM would have the person in the ECV all lined up and ready to back in when the empty car approached. I'm thinking that a CM or family member could even help with the steering if needed as the driver backs into the car. I can understand why maneuvering an ECV in to the appropriate space on a bus is challenging for new drivers -- it's not a "straight shot" in to the spot, but for someone using the gondola, they should (in my inexperienced view) be able to back straight in to the car without much difficulty I would think. Offloading would then be a simple straight drive out. I'm sure Disney has this all worked out already but it sure would be nice if they shared that info so we don't have to wonder about it for the next 18 months and could move on to more important issues like: What happens if the doors on the car don't automatically close when leaving the station????

I'd think many (most?) people are better at driving forward than backing up. Some people on ECV's don't have the easy ability to turn around and look where they're going. And even with someone guiding them and telling them "back up in a straight line", I can imagine would create a bit of anxiety in the driver, leading to potential panic moves.

If they have the ECV owner drive onto the gondola, the drive from a wide-open area to an enclosed area is the more difficult of the two moves. They'd want to make that as easy as possible for the driver, allow them to easily see where they're going. Once you're inside the gondola, the exit is from the already enclosed space out to a wide open space. That move should be easy to do while backing up "blind".

-Rob