News New Gondola Transportation - Disney Skyliner -

[flynnibus]

This doesn't solve that problem at all. This just allows the omnimover to run at two speeds. If there is a slow down in the station the cable is going to need to slow down or stop because it can't keep sending gondolas into a station that doesn't have room to handle them.

Not really... unlike an omnimover that has no spacing between vehicles, this system runs with cars at distances that can be full or not.

The main line runs at full speed... gondolas come off that line... and as long as they dispatch at the rate they arrive.. there is no backup. When a gondola can't dispatch in time.. you start eating into your capacity buffer at the station. If you are able to move a vehicle off the main spur.. your limit is how many you can move off before you become full. If you don't have any off-line capacity, you have a built in buffer that allows for late dispatches (system is not at full density). If cascading is at risk... you simply slow the main line to avoid the cascade and full stop. If worst comes to worse... you stop the line.

But unlike a vehicle based system that is trying to maintain min distances... there is no ripple effect when you stop or slow the system.. everything is back to speed/gap at the same times.

 

[Kamikaze]

Again, your logic is severely flawed. First, for some reason you have no problem assuming each gondola can achieve the maximum 8 person capacity while dispatching every 7.5 seconds (hardly likely with strollers and ecvs) and yet dismiss the monorails maximum capacity. Second, the monorail does in fact cycles much faster than every 5 minutes and 30 seconds. By way of random example - literally first video I pulled up on Youtube, here you see a monorail open the exit doors, unload, load, and leave station in 1 minute, 30 seconds.

Just because it has to leave every 7.5 seconds does not mean it only has 7.5 seconds to load. The station moves far slower than the actual line.

Monorail capacity is 360 per train. Roughly, it is 5 minutes between trains on the resort line. 60 minutes at 5 minute intervals is 12 trains per hour. That gives you capacity of 4320. On the gondola side, lets say its 8 passengers, 10 seconds between cabins, so 80 per minute. 80 x 60 is 4800.

Rough math on both sides. Gondola wins. Even if you added an entire extra monorail train to each hour, it wouldn't meet the Skyliner numbers.

You also neglect to mention that getting strollers and ECVs on the monorail is actually more of a procedure than it will be on the Skyliner.

I really wonder what @Lift Blog thinks when he sees how in the weeds we get on all this. Probably 'JFC guys, its just a gondola system'.

 

[SLUSHIE]

Actually...this is what gondola systems do to each cabin basically. Each cabin, as it comes into the station, is taken off the line and slowed. Once loaded, it goes back on the cable as it leaves the station. Any additional slowing is typically unnecessary.

Fine, but that's not what they were talking about. They were talking about something similar to toy story mania or whatever where the is a separate loading area for wheelchairs and then it gets merged back in with all the other traffic.

 

[SLUSHIE]

That's literally how all these systems work in the real world...The cabins are disconnected from the rope at the station and placed onto a track for loading. This is exactly how it works. A normal load is a very slow cabin and a special track at load can be used to load people needing a stationary load.

This is not a ski-lift with always attached cabs, the system functions by inserting cabs onto the rope and detaching them at load.

That was you I was replying to, you should know what I meant.

I even said that the line moves at a different speed than the loading area in my post.

"special track at load can be used to load people needing a stationary load."
That is what I was referring to, that is not going to be the case at all.

 

[DisneyJeff]

I don't see removing cabins from the line happening much at all, except for maintenance. There will be plenty of time to board the cabin at the stations. This includes the time it takes to load strollers, wheelchairs and ECVs. If there are any problems loading in time, you just go back and try again.

 

[Minthorne]

This thread will be so much gold to quote once the Skyliner as been operational for awhile. I'm not predicting what posts will be quoted - but it should be fun.

 

[SLUSHIE]

When I operated a gondola, whenever we added or removed a gondola from the line the lift had to be stopped. So I don't see how having a separate loading area would really speed things up if the lift is going to be stopped anyways.

 

[Bender123]

That was you I was replying to, you should know what I meant.

I even said that the line moves at a different speed than the loading area in my post.

"special track at load can be used to load people needing a stationary load."
That is what I was referring to, that is not going to be the case at all.

Except the technology exists already and is in use...Even with out a siding, the Emrites Air Line in London has been running since 2012 and is fully able to handle wheelchair traffic without stoppage.

Adding a link too: http://www.emiratesairline.co.uk/faqs/

It just seems like some people are pixiedusting the monorail to make them seem better than they are. Don't get me wrong, the monorail is a significant part of WDW and I never want to see it go away, but the efficiency speed of a gondola system is just far and away a better option at a fraction of the cost. Move more people in a "magical" highway in the sky and do it with a cost that magnitudes less expensive. I fail to see why we are continuing to beat on the ECV issue, when its a system that has been real world tested for decades and has not been an issue.

 

[SLUSHIE]

Anyone want to help me respond to him? I'm done.

 

[Grimley1968]

Pictured below is the most likely grip model for the Skyliner system, but there are three different options. This one opens and closes immediately rather than staying open the entire way through the terminal. You can see the two rollers (white) on the primary rail and the traction plate (black) that allow the tires to move the gondola through the station. There is a third 'lateral' roller outside of the picture. The big roller up top is the one that gets compressed allowing the jaw to open each time a gondola enters and leaves a station.



Here it is at slower than normal speed:

For anyone who does not understand how the gondola system will detach from the rope line, please watch this video. It's actually a fairly simple system mechanically, and allows the rope line to maintain constant speed while allowing all cabins to decelerate at the station into the unloading and loading areas, once detached from the rope line. The process is pretty much reversed when it gets put back on the rope line. It is potentially an incredibly efficient way of transporting guests from a to b, and I personally don't think it's going to be a close comparison between this and the monorail.

 

[Grimley1968]

I have a question: do the gondola doors open and close mechanically, by a spring being compressed/uncompressed somewhere in the station, or it a manual thing done by CM's?

 

[Lift Blog]

I have a question: do the gondola doors open and close mechanically, by a spring being compressed/uncompressed somewhere in the station, or it a manual thing done by CM's?

All automatic. The door mechanism is in the roof of each cabin and actuated by a cable.

 

[Bender123]

I have a question: do the gondola doors open and close mechanically, by a spring being compressed/uncompressed somewhere in the station, or it a manual thing done by CM's?

If its based on a similar system to the London one, the doors are automated.

 

[Bender123]

Also just injecting this video in regarding the load speeds...The station speed is greatly reduced to load an elderly man in a wheelchair. If you cant get in one at these speeds, then there are serious problems.

You can see how the station has excess space to allow gondolas to back up without affecting the cabs on the rope.

 

[Lift Blog]

I would have to defer to @Lift Blog as to the feasibility and whether Disney plans to do this with their system design, or whether gondolas are just typically left on the line. However, I dispute your assertion that adding monorails has to be lengthy or disruptive. I agree with the current system it is, but with a properly designed system with automation, it's a simple as a switcher track letting another train onto the line. Mass transit systems do this all the time. I agree, Disney would need to have some redesign here. But, to be clear, this is a flaw with Disney's current set up -- not monorails in general.

One of the gondolas where I work has three modes... all cabins, half cabins or 16 cabins in what is called pulse mode. We take all cabins off at the end of each day and start fresh every morning with the mode based on expected demand.

I suspect Disney will have almost all their cabins in service at all times. With long operating hours, they may only park all the cabins for a rare occasion like a hurricane. It is normal to have a few cabins out of service for maintenance at any given time and Disney may opt to buy extras. It looks like there will be one central cabin parking and maintenance facility at CBR South.

 

[jakeman]

So...have we figured out how it's going to break and kill us all yet?

 

[becca_]

So...have we figured out how it's going to break and kill us all yet?

Between all the slow ECVs loading, no A/C, and the fact that we're 100% going to be struck by lightning, I'd say it's a death trap!

 

[Grimley1968]

So...have we figured out how it's going to break and kill us all yet?

There is a sensor at the top that drops a guillotine when it hits the last tire in the station.

 

[Goob]

Also just injecting this video in regarding the load speeds...The station speed is greatly reduced to load an elderly man in a wheelchair. If you cant get in one at these speeds, then there are serious problems.

You can see how the station has excess space to allow gondolas to back up without affecting the cabs on the rope.

I don't know, I've seen several "Wall-E people", that have no experience with these ECV's, have significant trouble maneuvering into the stationary buses. It should popcorn eating worthy to watch while waiting for my gondola.

But for people that actually need ECV's and have plenty of experience with them, it should be no problem.

 

[orky8]

Also just injecting this video in regarding the load speeds...The station speed is greatly reduced to load an elderly man in a wheelchair. If you cant get in one at these speeds, then there are serious problems.

You can see how the station has excess space to allow gondolas to back up without affecting the cabs on the rope.

That video shows the entire line (cable wheel) being slowed as well. You can hear and see the flywheel is moving slower when they accommodate the wheelchair.