My Magic + details ...

[lazyboy97o]

I understand but when you tell people flat out you don't have a clue what you should be spending your money on, there lies the problem. You can go anywhere and spend less off property I get that. But when you are calling most of the group clueless because they are spending the money they earned not the way you would spend it is a joke. Would you like someone to tell you that you are spending money the wrong way? Plus would you like to be called clueless on how you should be spending your family's vacation money? Like I said, be angry at the rides,the management, the system, but not the people who spend their hard earned money on a vacation. It makes no sense to me.

But there are clueless people who continue to praise Disney's mediocrity because they have no clue about what else is out there because they're too afraid to leave the comfort zone...

 

[nytimez]

I understand but when you tell people flat out you don't have a clue what you should be spending your money on, there lies the problem. You can go anywhere and spend less off property I get that. But when you are calling most of the group clueless because they are spending the money they earned not the way you would spend it is a joke. Would you like someone to tell you that you are spending money the wrong way? Plus would you like to be called clueless on how you should be spending your family's vacation money? Like I said, be angry at the rides,the management, the system, but not the people who spend their hard earned money on a vacation. It makes no sense to me.

Many have never considered and refuse to know what the other options are - they are quite literally clueless, as in uninformed and unwilling to become informed.

These are not people who made a choice. They are people who either didn't realize they had a choice or had no interest in learning what the choices are.

Yes, I'd say clueless is a very accurate word here.

 

[tirian]

I think his point is that WDW deluxe resorts are extremely overpriced for what they are. For a fraction of the cost, you can stay at a Westin, W, or Omni in a major city and enjoy amenities that Disney doesn't begin to offer.

I primarily stay at deluxe resorts on deep discounts, and although they are decent as 3-1/2 to 4-star hotels, their rack rates are obscene.

So,you are now the authority on how people should spend their money? I've been reading your posts and see that you are frustrated with Disney and the decisions that they have made. I get that your frustrated and you can vent those frustrations anyway you want. However, when you start telling people what they should get for their money is a joke. Spend your money how you want but don't demean a person for spending their money how they want. I'm sure there are things you have purchased or money you have spent that was improper but to group it as to all,wdw1974 people who spend money this way don't have a clue is a joke. Stick to demeaning disney and stop insulting people here. This is my opinion but I had to express it. Im sure you will come back with a witty comeback but really I would like to think that you just take a step back and realize its not everyone else who is wrong. But to each their own.

 

[englanddg]

I understand but when you tell people flat out you don't have a clue what you should be spending your money on, there lies the problem. You can go anywhere and spend less off property I get that. But when you are calling most of the group clueless because they are spending the money they earned not the way you would spend it is a joke. Would you like someone to tell you that you are spending money the wrong way? Plus would you like to be called clueless on how you should be spending your family's vacation money? Like I said, be angry at the rides,the management, the system, but not the people who spend their hard earned money on a vacation. It makes no sense to me.

Well, sortof. With respect to forums, I buy the Deluxe Dining every year. I am told I wasted my money. This year I did a receipt by receipt detail, and I found...they were not correct.

I go every year...and it's not Disney fans on a forum who tell me I'm wasting my money...it's people who DON'T go to Disney who imply that.

I get told often that it's a silly place to go, it's a beefed up amusement park, and that it is a waste of time and money.

And that is what Disney is trying to combat...and I think they are doing it in the wrong way, but that is my opinion.

But, the people who dislike Disney, well, they aren't those who argue about it on forums...they are your co-worker, who thinks that you are nuts to go to WDW every vacation day you can scrap up.

So, if Spirit wants to say he thinks I'm wasting money, I really don't care. It's a value to me, and something I wish to spend. He may say I'm silly for spending it, but he's also not me.

So, I appreciate what he has to say, and his viewpoint, and don't take it personally (and many times agree)...

 

[Grumpy21]

Many have never considered and refuse to know what the other options are - they are quite literally clueless, as in uninformed and unwilling to become informed.

These are not people who made a choice. They are people who either didn't realize they had a choice or had no interest in learning what the choices are.

Yes, I'd say clueless is a very accurate word here.

So I'm not going to argue all day but are you really going to tell me that people who spend thousands of dollars are mostly clueless? Or let me guess they think only disney has hotels in Orlando? Yep it's disney or bust in orlando. No other choices here.

I'm not trying to interpret what he should have said or should have put it in his statement. I'm appalled at how it was written. The majority at a deluxe resort don't have a clue on what they should be getting for a their money. That is a statement that is far fetched and judge mental.

Does Disney charge more, I'm going to go with yes. And because I choose to stay at the deluxe resorts I'm clueless? So be it I'm clueless.

 

[nytimez]

are you really going to tell me that people who spend thousands of dollars are mostly clueless?

I've never found the amount of money spent to be any sort of guarantee of common sense. Or good taste, for that matter.

 

[Grumpy21]

I've never found the amount of money spent to be any sort of guarantee of common sense. Or good taste, for that matter.

Clueless definition

: completely or hopelessly bewildered, unaware, ignorant, or foolish

Yep most people who have the money to spend fall in this category. All lottery winners at disney. Lol.

 

[nytimez]

Clueless definition

: completely or hopelessly bewildered, unaware, ignorant, or foolish

Yep most people who have the money to spend fall in this category. All lottery winners at disney. Lol.

I'd say that's largely accurate. Minus the part about the lottery winners - I can't speak to that.

Glad we agree.

 

[Grumpy21]

Lol. Agree to disagree.

 

[Longhairbear]

I'll drop back to my last post. Nothing you wrote changes any of it.

The DDP is worth it only if you would go to those restaurants, and order the same items if you were not on the DDP. I know a lot of guests would never go to those restaurants, or order those items if they weren't getting them through some type of deal, or for "free". The DDP cannot be compared by adding up the cost of meals, and say you saved money, if you never would have ordered it in the first place unless it was "Free".

 

[WDW1974]

Clueless definition

: completely or hopelessly bewildered, unaware, ignorant, or foolish

Yep most people who have the money to spend fall in this category. All lottery winners at disney. Lol.

I have opted to not use contractions as a favor to a friend, but I have also opted to not go after your 3-4 emotional, sharply worded retorts to my post.

But this really deserves a response, a common sense one at that. No pixie dust included.

You overlooked my qualifier of the word 'most' in explaining the guest expectation whether staying at a WDW resort or any hotel. There are many reasons why guests opt to stay on property at Disney owned and operated lodgings.

It is their choice, it is their money.

I would ask, however, that you review the below scenario for a visit to WDW starting on 8/27 and ending on 8/30.

You could stay at the CBR in a standard view room for $170 plus tax. Or, you could consider staying at the Waldorf Astoria, just behind the CBR's tree line, for $171 per night (best available non-suite).

OK, you say that just isn't Disney enough? Fair enough, I can do better. Let's move over to the EPCOT resort area. I can put you in a room at the WDW Dolphin for $129 a night or, if you prefer, you can have the Swan for $139 a night.

Contrast that with Disney's lowest available rate at the Beach Club for these nights -- $360. For a hotel that's on the same transport network, the same perks including EMH and DME, and one thing that Disney will not offer you because it can't (or it refuses to) the loyalty perks of Starwood.

And, now, if you really want to be adventurous you can stay at the Ritz Carlton for $219 a night (the lowest available rate at the Grand Flo for these nights is $480).

As @englanddg explained, he has his reasons for booking on property. But he does so as an informed consumer who knows that he is paying far more for a less than product. That is his choice and I'm not questioning or criticizing that choice. Most folks, however, are buying into the Disney vacation without the savvy or knowledge of what is out there.

To me, the above example is sobering. To you?

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

. But he does so as an informed consumer who knows that he is paying far more for a less than product. That is his choice and I'm not questioning or criticizing that choice. Most folks, however, are buying into the Disney vacation without the savvy or knowledge of what is out there.

To me, the above example is sobering. To you?

As an informed customer I have stopped visiting WDW annually, we used to stay for around 14 nights, on our last trip we changed our dining habits as we were dissatisfied with the standards of food and dumbed down menus but especially the prices, hell I could eat at Gordons or Hestons places for less than a Disney signature restaurant. We will be missing WDW again this year and having a few days in the park on the other coast. Disney which used to earn/get approx 75% of my annual trip spend will now get 15%.
We are planning to go as a family next year, partly driven by our banked DVC points and largely driven by my daughters desire to see Potter plus. However they have all said they would rather eat off site more, we are reducing the days in Disney parks to visit other Orlando attractions and we will be increasing the days we spend at a Uni resort hotel. All of this means of course we will be giving the mouse less.
What it also means, as someone who is known for holidaying in Florida when people ask for guidance, my advice has shifted too.
I was always told on this site if your not happy dont go. Well I havent and you know what my trips have been fantastic. Theres a big old world out there and Im really enjoying seeing it. I stopped visiting these pages because Iike the parks I was no longer getting enjoyment from being here, far too many taking too much too seriously, and to be frank too many infantile and puerile threads burying genuine information. However what bothers me most is that no matter how much you argue about personal tastes etc there are some who would make an excuse if Disney served up a freshly dropped logged and called it Une tasse filles Chocolate providing said tasse had a Mickey logo on it.

 

[devoy1701]

You seem to forget that this "overhead" helps pay for perks that most people forget about. Disney transpiration does not generate revenue and this helps pay for all the cost of bus drivers to fuel to monorail or boats maintenance. Also extra magic hours which is a current perk. The labor to staff these extra hours is helped by this cost. Not to mention things like lifeguards and special activities at the resorts. DDP is a perk that if is utilized correctly can save money if you plan on not leaving property.

A few things on this. Even though the transportation system is for resort guests, it's not restricted to resort guests only, and it's by no means the most efficient way to travel. So I'm not sure if this is a valid way to justify a 50%+ price above market value for their rooms. And it does generate revenue by means of parking fees. With roughly 30,000 parking spots between the 4 major theme parks, assuming an average of 75% occupancy over a 1 yr period would bring in about $123M in revenues.

EMH, while very true that this is an on-property perk, is one whose costs are spread over the 45,000+ hotel rooms on property. Not to mention this perk gets diluted every time they add more resorts and hotels to WDW (it has doubled over the last 15 years). In addition, the frequency of EMH has diminished as well. Not as many attractions remain open, EMH not available at each park as frequently as before or as late as before. Evening hours being cut from 3 to 2 hrs in some cases.

As for lifeguards and special activities? it costs next to nothing to play a movie on a big screen on the beach at the Yacht Club, and the same could be said for the Lifeguards making minimum wage. Unless you're able to get a great PIN code and whatnot, I don't think you'll be saving any money by opting to stay on property versus staying off (or staying at the S&D which as '74 has pointed out, have just about all of the same perks).

I understand but when you tell people flat out you don't have a clue what you should be spending your money on, there lies the problem. You can go anywhere and spend less off property I get that. But when you are calling most of the group clueless because they are spending the money they earned not the way you would spend it is a joke. Would you like someone to tell you that you are spending money the wrong way? Plus would you like to be called clueless on how you should be spending your family's vacation money? Like I said, be angry at the rides,the management, the system, but not the people who spend their hard earned money on a vacation. It makes no sense to me.

So,you are now the authority on how people should spend their money? I've been reading your posts and see that you are frustrated with Disney and the decisions that they have made. I get that your frustrated and you can vent those frustrations anyway you want. However, when you start telling people what they should get for their money is a joke. Spend your money how you want but don't demean a person for spending their money how they want. I'm sure there are things you have purchased or money you have spent that was improper but to group it as to all,wdw1974 people who spend money this way don't have a clue is a joke. Stick to demeaning disney and stop insulting people here. This is my opinion but I had to express it. Im sure you will come back with a witty comeback but really I would like to think that you just take a step back and realize its not everyone else who is wrong. But to each their own.

Whether you take it as demeaning or not is your prerogative. It's also your prerogative to spend $400/night at the Poly if you chose to (location is about the only justifiable reason to spend that much, and even still I don't think it's worth the premium). My wife and I used to love staying at the WL a few times year (granted, we would do so for $144-175/night) or do long weekends at CBR (for $99/night). But after traveling to a few other places and staying at resorts such as Hyatts, Sheratons, Waldorfs, shoot even Loews Resorts (read Uni On-Property) give you better experiences for your money, has opened our eyes to the value of our dollar at WDW.

 

[flynnibus]

What happens when a no vowel Czech or Pole family comes in? Watch them get flustered. I have a very unique last name and I really do not care to correct individuals I have no plans to develop any type of relationship.

Greeting customers by name is not a new invention by Disney. Employees are trained to have fall back phrases if you feel like you are going to mangle the name. It even makes for a conversation tool when people have interesting names/locations... just like the CM name badges.

So lets not think these issues are going to torpedo the whole idea.

 

[flynnibus]

If you have a better case study, please put it to "paper" and show us.

Back to the original point.. the 'projection' you are working up.. is based on YOUR idea of how the ROI of the project will be evaluated. You can pull out all kinds of numbers.. but if you plug them into the wrong equation none of it matters. So much for 'concrete'. The flaw is in your notion of the contributing elements of the ROI - it only focuses on increased revenue, not improvements elsewhere.

When a business replaces their problematic car with a new one, they don't rely solely on the idea the new car is going to increase their revenues - the new car is in part justified by the increased efficiencies and reduced expenses. The same thing applies to technology - even if the replacement doesn't add new opportunities for revenues. A project like NextGen is likely to provide multiple beneficial paths for the company -- not just rely on increasing guest revenues for it's sole justification.

 

[flynnibus]

Please Re-Read the post... It specifies 1 park...1 day.....( Magic Kingdom specifically)...in the top half of the post....I then went on to contrast the differences of then and now....

But the parks do not operate as islands - nor is the pricing model of WDW setup as independent islands. The price a customer pays for something is the price decided for the ecosystem of WDW - not that product in isolation.

I did not reference anyone's post in my refrain. Since you have had thoughts on this subject I would ask you, do admission prices help cover the hotels or do the hotels help cover the admission prices? It's either one or the other. It can't be both. I would argue it's neither. The relationship is symbiotic to be sure, but one shouldn't have to cover for the other.

Sure it can be both - both are contributing to the WDW operating model as a whole. WDW is not setup as a 'pay per consumption' model. The 'who supports who' to what degree is entirely up to the business to decide - there are no laws of the universe here. Everyone is owned and consolidated together eventually. Pricing and subsidies is what they decide it will be.

 

[flynnibus]

So I'm not going to argue all day but are you really going to tell me that people who spend thousands of dollars are mostly clueless? Or let me guess they think only disney has hotels in Orlando? Yep it's disney or bust in orlando. No other choices here.

Very simple... the difference... 'someone who pays thousands for a product because they chose to' vs 'someone who pays thousands for a product because they know no better'

The difference between being informed and not.

Ultimately people can chose their own path - the adjective applies to if they made that choice with a full understanding or not.

 

[asianway]

Very simple... the difference... 'someone who pays thousands for a product because they chose to' vs 'someone who pays thousands for a product because they know no better'

The difference between being informed and not.

Ultimately people can chose their own path - the adjective applies to if they made that choice with a full understanding or not.

And most of the people who do scrimp and save every dollar throughout the year to do so - see the "Budget Boards"

Aulani, DCL, Disneyland, Tokyo...all better places to get more value for your money, and thats not even counting the entire non-Disney "world" out there.

So yes, theyre rubes.

 

[luv]

Clueless definition

: completely or hopelessly bewildered, unaware, ignorant, or foolish

Yep most people who have the money to spend fall in this category. All lottery winners at disney. Lol.

I stopped staying in WDW hotels because I could get so much more elsewhere. It happens to cost less, but that wasn't even the major reason I switched. I just wanted to stay somewhere better.

I wish that saying offsite made me smarter, lol. It didn't. It doesn't. It won't. It's just the right choice for me.

If you want to stay in a Disney hotel...if you like being in the bubble...then that is the right choice for you. It really doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.

 

[YankeeMouse]

I'm all in for the Bubble! Not seeing billboards and tee shirt shops is a good part of the appeal for being in WDW for me.