My Magic + details ...

[pjammer]

C'mon, are you serious?

You are talking rates that can be three to ten times what similar off-property locations charge. People often pay more for Disney motel rooms that luxury resorts like the Ritz or Waldorf ...BRAND addiction.

And let's not insult anyone's intelligence by stating Disney actually maintains its monorails

perks like free parking, transportation (including DME), EMH, DDP, not having to worry about intangible cost and time saved (like those posted above) and overallresort experiance is what makes it worth the cost to stay on-property. That's why Disney reserves the right to charge above market rate. This is to provide a once in a lifetime experience and hope that the customer comes back. Those rates help them provide these services. And if you're too blind to see that then your never going to understand.

 

[MattM]

When I can stay at Royal Pacific Resort for less money than POP Century then something is priced above it's market.

Well, really it's only priced above the market if people don't pay that rate. But I agree with what you're saying.

 

[Nubs70]

Your logic completely ignores the idea of cost savings or other budget roll-ups like money that would have been spent otherwise maintaining other systems, etc.

Consolidation alone of the various platforms they had previously could be worth tens of millions.. if not even another zero on there... in annual costs.

When you can provide concrete evidence and the associated numbers, I would be happy to take them into occount. Consolidation of previous platforms is a sunk cost. Did I not state that this was an exercise that was limited in scope based on a lack of real time numbers and was based on limited public information? Was it not obvious that the calculations were based on a fixed margin? This example was also based on expanding revenue not expanding margin. How would WDW expand margin other than increasing revenue?

 

[Calvin Coolidge]

For what it's worth, over the course of four days in the parks last week I talked to about a dozen families with Magic Bands and didn't come across a single unqualified positive review. I saw one little boy in tears because the rest of his family's fastpass+ reservations worked and his didn't, and the CM said he couldn't ride with his family. I sat next to a guy on Test Track who had to keep his band in his pocket because he said it was giving him a rash.

I talked to some off duty CMs at Epcot who said they didn't understand why people were complaining. They said people must just be afraid of technology, and that greeting guests by name, etc, made it worthwhile. I asked if that was worth more than $2 billion; they were flabbergasted that it cost that much for what little utility it brought.

I realize that some of these kinks just haven't been worked out yet but it seems like an inauspicious start.

 

[englanddg]

For what it's worth, over the course of four days in the parks last week I talked to about a dozen families with Magic Bands and didn't come across a single unqualified positive review. I saw one little boy in tears because the rest of his family's fastpass+ reservations worked and his didn't, and the CM said he couldn't ride with his family. I sat next to a guy on Test Track who had to keep his band in his pocket because he said it was giving him a rash.

I talked to some off duty CMs at Epcot who said they didn't understand why people were complaining. They said people must just be afraid of technology, and that greeting guests by name, etc, made it worthwhile. I asked if that was worth more than $2 billion; they were flabbergasted that it cost that much for what little utility it brought.

I realize that some of these kinks just haven't been worked out yet but it seems like an inauspicious start.

My kid wouldn't wear it all day (I didn't expect that she would)

I had a CM tell me that I'd "already used my FP" for PotC...and it wasn't until I questioned him that he looked up my usage and saw that "Mickey had turned green" before he had noticed.

The rash is a valid concern...but I also saw a lot of people wearing them of their own accord.

I will say, the one thing CM's are not prepared for, and I noticed this both with the bands and the RFID cards used with poles, is how fast the system works.

They do have either handhelds or computers they can access, but a guest used to the system looking for the green "mickey" confirmation (like me) was far faster then them both at POS locations and at the poles...and many times this slowed things up.

So, if anyone is having trouble "accepting the new technology"...I'd say it's the CMs. I got pretty quickly what is going on (mickey turns blue when it's making a call to the Database, and green with confirmation...case closed, simple UI)....

The fact is...with this, guests can check themselves in faster than the CMs can keep up, and with no turnstyle or other obstacle to artificially slow the guest down, or in the case of POS where they have to "activate" the scanner...it's become a much harder job for them...

 

[Nubs70]

For what it's worth, over the course of four days in the parks last week I talked to about a dozen families with Magic Bands and didn't come across a single unqualified positive review. I saw one little boy in tears because the rest of his family's fastpass+ reservations worked and his didn't, and the CM said he couldn't ride with his family. I sat next to a guy on Test Track who had to keep his band in his pocket because he said it was giving him a rash.

I talked to some off duty CMs at Epcot who said they didn't understand why people were complaining. They said people must just be afraid of technology, and that greeting guests by name, etc, made it worthwhile. I asked if that was worth more than $2 billion; they were flabbergasted that it cost that much for what little utility it brought.

I realize that some of these kinks just haven't been worked out yet but it seems like an inauspicious start.

When I take part in a vacation and I interact with I do not know nor do they know me, I expect to be addressed as sir and I address people I do not know in a like fashion. I only address by first name after introducing myself, giving my name, and the opposite party responds in kind. To address by first name prior to proper and reciprocal introduction seems, in my mind, a little presumptuous and maybe a bit rude.

 

[englanddg]

When I take part in a vacation and I interact with I do not know nor do they know me, I expect to be addressed as sir and I address people I do not know in a like fashion. I only address by first name after introducing myself, giving my name, and the opposite party responds in kind. To address by first name prior to proper and reciprocal introduction seems, in my mind, a little presumptuous and maybe a bit rude.

They are just repeating the "Staggs" matra...

And, while testing, I was referred to as "Mr. <lastname>" many times, even when checking in for FP+...

 

[Nubs70]

What happens when a no vowel Czech or Pole family comes in? Watch them get flustered. I have a very unique last name and I really do not care to correct individuals I have no plans to develop any type of relationship.

 

[1023]

The Value of Disney:

Simple inflationary adjustments from 1971 to 2013 (averages 4.26% per year during that time frame).
Using a Single Park, Adult Ticket. Comparing an 11 ride Ticket book to today's General Admission. ( I figure it will be hard to utilize more than 11 attractions with MyMagicMinus but hey buy two books if you want.)


For just the Magic Kingdom:

Parking in 1971: $0.50 adjusting to $2.88 in today's dollars
Actual Current Price: $15.00

Eleven Adventure Ticket Book in 1971: $5.75 adjusting to $33.17 in today's dollars
Actual Current Price: $95.00

Notes from 1971: With General Admission, Seven Adventure book, and Eleven Adventure book, you got free use of transportation, all Free shows, exhibits and entertainment.

So my query is this, what are the differences in value? I agree it is hard to judge based on a per attraction price system. Even if you allow for the purchase of two "11 Adventure" ticket books, there is still almost a 1/3 in differential "value". Parking is now 5 times a greater value. They ran trams in 1971. They ran monorail in 1971.

Now I will say, the value is far better when purchasing a ticket for more days but that is not today's exercise.

Differences in 1971 and now:

Show quality is down. Maintenance is down. Technology is up. Prices are up.

Disney's mission statement then: "Make People Happy." ( I am not kidding.)

Disney's mission statement now: "...to be one of the world's leading producers and providers of entertainment and information. Using our portfolio of brands to differentiate our content, services and consumer products, we seek to develop the most creative, innovative and profitable entertainment experiences and related products in the world." ( I am also not kidding.)

I am sure there are those that will look at this as a very simplistic view of things and as I said at the top it is. When you relate it to MyMagicMinus and the financial goals tied to it, things like "value" will take a hit. I do not consider paying a "premium" to stay some place a "value".

When I pay a premium, I expect more than value.

If Disney is considering getting rid of "Extra Magic Hours"(and by many reports they are), that will take some "Value" out of staying in their resorts. Will they consider reducing their rack rates to make up for that "value"? Unlikely. Disney is currently planning to limit FastPasses to 4 (or less) in the Magic Kingdom. Will this reduction in, let's call it "service", be replaced by some corresponding "value"? Also, unlikely.

As many here have pointed out, ad nauseam, TWDC is a multinational, for profit, business with diversified holdings, etc. They are in existence to make a profit and are doing a bang up job at it. They also project an image of a family friendly, affordable vacations with the best the theme park industry has to offer. They sell "value" in all their offerings at WDW. Will they stop marketing that approach with the loss of the aforementioned "perks"? I doubt it.

And in order to placate certain entities perusing these forums, it all remains to be seen.

*1023*

P.S. Out of my altruistic nature, I often give sets of fast passes for attractions to the unsuspecting father and son or daughter and mother. I am sure many here do this when they are just "done for the day". I am more than a little saddened that this practice of mine will be eliminated under the new system. At least, I can still do it at Disneyland.

 

[Nubs70]

2.5B is a projected number and used for demonstrative purposes.
Revenues and Operating Income are from 2012 annual report
Margin is derived from 2012 annual report
PRGS is from 2012 annual report.
Projected PRGS is based on the ratio needed to support 5 years of payments on the projected/demonstrative project cost.

To think that PRGS will remain the same and not increase significantly, is naive as it is WDW's stated goal. It very well not increase as significantly in this demonstrative case, but I would suspect PRGS will increase much more rapidly than in years past if NGE meets the planners expectations.

If you have a better case study, please put it to "paper" and show us.

 

[englanddg]

The band offers very little that the previous KTTW system did not.

1) Serves as to park tickets (yep)
2) Serves as hotel key (yep)
3) Linked to room charges / credit card (yep)
4) Linked to FP system (yep)
5) Waterproof (yep)
6) Easy to keep track of (yep)
7) Tracks Dining Plan allotments (yep)

The only things I can think of that the Magicband / RFID system does that the older KTTW system didn't...?

1) Integration with Photopass (not ready yet)
2) Integration with the website (wonky)
3) Easy wear on the wrist (done)

So...from a Guest's view, the "new system" really doesn't do all that much.

Is it neat? Yes. Does it work well? Yeah, it's pretty cool, I enjoyed it (even missed it after I checked out of testing)...

But, are the vast majority of things being touted that it does really "revolutionary"? Well, I can't speak for experiences before 2010 since I had a long hiatus from the parks, but since 2010...nope...not so much.

 

[pjammer]

The Value of Disney:

Simple inflationary adjustments from 1971 to 2013 (averages 4.26% per year during that time frame).
Using a Single Park, Adult Ticket. Comparing an 11 ride Ticket book to today's General Admission. ( I figure it will be hard to utilize more than 11 attractions with MyMagicMinus but hey buy two books if you want.)


For just the Magic Kingdom:

Parking in 1971: $0.50 adjusting to $2.88 in today's dollars
Actual Current Price: $15.00

Eleven Adventure Ticket Book in 1971: $5.75 adjusting to $33.17 in today's dollars
Actual Current Price: $95.00

Notes from 1971: With General Admission, Seven Adventure book, and Eleven Adventure book, you got free use of transportation, all Free shows, exhibits and entertainment.

So my query is this, what are the differences in value? I agree it is hard to judge based on a per attraction price system. Even if you allow for the purchase of two "11 Adventure" ticket books, there is still almost a 1/3 in differential "value". Parking is now 5 times a greater value. They ran trams in 1971. They ran monorail in 1971.

Now I will say, the value is far better when purchasing a ticket for more days but that is not today's exercise.

Differences in 1971 and now:

Show quality is down. Maintenance is down. Technology is up. Prices are up.

Disney's mission statement then: "Make People Happy." ( I am not kidding.)

Disney's mission statement now: "...to be one of the world's leading producers and providers of entertainment and information. Using our portfolio of brands to differentiate our content, services and consumer products, we seek to develop the most creative, innovative and profitable entertainment experiences and related products in the world." ( I am also not kidding.)

I am sure there are those that will look at this as a very simplistic view of things and as I said at the top it is. When you relate it to MyMagicMinus and the financial goals tied to it, things like "value" will take a hit. I do not consider paying a "premium" to stay some place a "value".

When I pay a premium, I expect more than value.

If Disney is considering getting rid of "Extra Magic Hours"(and by many reports they are), that will take some "Value" out of staying in their resorts. Will they consider reducing their rack rates to make up for that "value"? Unlikely. Disney is currently planning to limit FastPasses to 4 (or less) in the Magic Kingdom. Will this reduction in, let's call it "service", be replaced by some corresponding "value"? Also, unlikely.

As many here have pointed out, ad nauseam, TWDC is a multinational, for profit, business with diversified holdings, etc. They are in existence to make a profit and are doing a bang up job at it. They also project an image of a family friendly, affordable vacations with the best the theme park industry has to offer. They sell "value" in all their offerings at WDW. Will they stop marketing that approach with the loss of the aforementioned "perks"? I doubt it.

And in order to placate certain entities perusing these forums, it all remains to be seen.

*1023*

P.S. Out of my altruistic nature, I often give sets of fast passes for attractions to the unsuspecting father and son or daughter and mother. I am sure many here do this when they are just "done for the day". I am more than a little saddened that this practice of mine will be eliminated under the new system. At least, I can still do it at Disneyland.

It's a nice comparison but since 1971 the resort has added 3 parks, 3 water parks (now two), expansion at DTD and 20+ resorts that admissions prices have to help cover. And when you consider that the competition down the road always matches Disney prices and that you consider the size that Disney has maintain over the others then its's understandable.

 

[1023]

It's a nice comparison but since 1971 the resort has added 3 parks, 3 water parks (now two), expansion at DTD and 20+ resorts that admissions prices have to help cover. And when you consider that the competition down the road always matches Disney prices and that you consider the size that Disney has maintain over the others then its's understandable.

Please Re-Read the post... It specifies 1 park...1 day.....( Magic Kingdom specifically)...in the top half of the post....I then went on to contrast the differences of then and now....(specifically to 1971) I then went on to specifically address "value" versus the MyMagicMinus and offerings today.( This puts it in this thread without being off topic.) The MyMagicMinus program directly effects "value" in several ways. I used the FastPassPlus as one example because it reduces the number of FastPasses one guest can use during the day. It in turn also limits FastPasses to one park on a given day. Clearly a loss of "value" on 2 fronts.

I did not reference anyone's post in my refrain. Since you have had thoughts on this subject I would ask you, do admission prices help cover the hotels or do the hotels help cover the admission prices? It's either one or the other. It can't be both. I would argue it's neither. The relationship is symbiotic to be sure, but one shouldn't have to cover for the other.

The hotel business (outside of Disney I guess?) operates without direct support from surrounding attractions. Sure a hotel may be next to the beach and that helps drive traffic but that is merely good location. The hotels near Six Flags Magic Mountain in California, purchased land near the amusement park to reap the benefits of proximity. (Location, location, location....)

The theme park business operates on the revenues from admissions, tours, food and beverage, and merchandise sales ( possibly sponsorship of attractions, parades, etc.). Their guests travel from near and far to visit them and enjoy their offerings. Walt Disney World guests stay on and off property and travel in various ways to get to the park. ( I would prefer to not describe how offering transportation drives revenues, as I can assure you Disney finds a way to make these revenue neutral.)

I am sure you will find that these two units have different budgets,metrics and management structures.Both of which are line item operated to generate a profit. These units co-exist in Parks and Resorts and benefit from unparallelled synergy in both industries. Disney is the master of synergy.

If you would like, I will gladly breakdown "Value" or "Perceived Value" based on the additions you reference using the same simple approach based on inflationary differences. I will let each reader decide if the difference has a "value" to them. Looking over the additions over time versus the inflationary pressures I would say it's similar.

Many have argued that pricing at Disney's many offerings are set at, "Whatever the market may bear". This economic term is usually used when the price is exploitative. I am not saying that in any way. I am saying that at a certain point there are diminishing returns, especially when it comes to squeezing blood from a turnip.

Or, simply see that I as an individual, on one day at the Magic Kingdom will not realize the same value under MyMagicMinus as I did before it. Possibly far less if I didn't reserve my 3 or 4 FPP 60 days from when my "vacation" was.

*1023*

---end of line

 

[WDW1974]

See, we can agree on some things.

we agree on plenty and disagree on more, but who's keeping score?

 

[WDW1974]

For what it's worth, over the course of four days in the parks last week I talked to about a dozen families with Magic Bands and didn't come across a single unqualified positive review. I saw one little boy in tears because the rest of his family's fastpass+ reservations worked and his didn't, and the CM said he couldn't ride with his family. I sat next to a guy on Test Track who had to keep his band in his pocket because he said it was giving him a rash.

I talked to some off duty CMs at Epcot who said they didn't understand why people were complaining. They said people must just be afraid of technology, and that greeting guests by name, etc, made it worthwhile. I asked if that was worth more than $2 billion; they were flabbergasted that it cost that much for what little utility it brought.

I realize that some of these kinks just haven't been worked out yet but it seems like an inauspicious start.

You should email Jason Garcia of the O-Town Sentinel as I hear he is looking for people to give him fodder for future stories on NGE.

 

[Grumpy21]

Absolutely.

There is little doubt to me that most WDW deluxe guests don't have a clue what they should be getting for their money.

So,you are now the authority on how people should spend their money? I've been reading your posts and see that you are frustrated with Disney and the decisions that they have made. I get that your frustrated and you can vent those frustrations anyway you want. However, when you start telling people what they should get for their money is a joke. Spend your money how you want but don't demean a person for spending their money how they want. I'm sure there are things you have purchased or money you have spent that was improper but to group it as to all,wdw1974 people who spend money this way don't have a clue is a joke. Stick to demeaning disney and stop insulting people here. This is my opinion but I had to express it. Im sure you will come back with a witty comeback but really I would like to think that you just take a step back and realize its not everyone else who is wrong. But to each their own.

 

[englanddg]

So,you are now the authority on how people should spend their money? I've been reading your posts and see that you are frustrated with Disney and the decisions that they have made. I get that your frustrated and you can vent those frustrations anyway you want. However, when you start telling people what they should get for their money is a joke. Spend your money how you want but don't demean a person for spending their money how they want. I'm sure there are things you have purchased or money you have spent that was improper but to group it as to all,wdw1974 people who spend money this way don't have a clue is a joke. Stick to demeaning disney and stop insulting people here. This is my opinion but I had to express it. Im sure you will come back with a witty comeback but really I would like to think that you just take a step back and realize its not everyone else who is wrong. But to each their own.

No, I think you miss the point.

His underlying point is that, for the money spent, one could get a lot more satisfying experiences elsewhere. (and at the deluxe level of spending, you certainly can)...

 

[englanddg]

If you don't think that WDW is chasing away high value guests...take a cruise, and talk to people on it. You'll find that a vast majority of them "used" to love WDW...

That should say something to management...

 

[tirian]

If you don't think that WDW is chasing away high value guests...take a cruise, and talk to people on it. You'll find that a vast majority of them "used" to love WDW...

That should say something to management...

Very, very true. I've talked to many DCL guests who were once WDW regulars and aren't any more.

 

[Grumpy21]

No, I think you miss the point.

His underlying point is that, for the money spent, one could get a lot more satisfying experiences elsewhere. (and at the deluxe level of spending, you certainly can)...

I understand but when you tell people flat out you don't have a clue what you should be spending your money on, there lies the problem. You can go anywhere and spend less off property I get that. But when you are calling most of the group clueless because they are spending the money they earned not the way you would spend it is a joke. Would you like someone to tell you that you are spending money the wrong way? Plus would you like to be called clueless on how you should be spending your family's vacation money? Like I said, be angry at the rides,the management, the system, but not the people who spend their hard earned money on a vacation. It makes no sense to me.