Muppets Mini-Land / Muppets Courtyard Additions & Refurbishments

[Goofyernmost]

That's not what they're talking about, and you know it.

I shouldn't be able to see anything from Fantasyland in Liberty Square- it breaks immersion. That's why the MK is built on top of a tunnel system, because Walt didn't like seeing a Frontierland Cowboy in Tomorrowland. This is not just a theme park where we throw some rides together and call it a day. They aren't complaining you can see the HM from Liberty Square. They're complaining that you can see a European (fantasy/annimation accented) tower from the Haunted Mansion and Frontierland.

Of course that is what you are talking about. You somehow think that it is necessary for the place to separate time and space to create some kind of immersive atmosphere. If that were true, what the hell is HM doing in Liberty Square. You are trying to force what you think should happen park wide against what has been happening from day one of any Disney park. There were different vague areas and within those areas were separate attractions that to some degree tied in with others. However, you can see Space Mountain from almost anyplace in the park as well as Thunder Mtn. and Splash Mountain. There is no divide when space requirements made it impossible to keep them apart visually. You are placing an unnecessary requirement on something that is almost impossible to separate.

You can stand in front of Cinderella Castle and look into just about every other land in the park. The immersion comes from the individual attraction and how it is themed. You have to shift gears if you want immersion. When you walk through the tunnels under the train station at MK, you have immersed yourself into the Magic Kingdom. You are immersed in that world of make-believe and fun. They do not issue blinders when you walk in so that you only can focus on one place or thing. As was said, at some point, if a hurricane doesn't knock them down, the trees will block it's view from some angle, but, there will always be a direction that it can be seen from. It is in an open park and one of the things about those parks is what Walt called "wienies". They were there to attract you attention and draw you in to that area. If you cannot see them, you will not be drawn in.

 

[Mike S]

what the hell is HM doing in Liberty Square.

http://passport2dreams.blogspot.com/2010/05/history-and-haunted-mansion.html?m=1

 

[Goofyernmost]

Well, I suppose I could make up a story line that would completely negate that story. Don't forget that fantasy is not only in theme parks but in theme park justifications. Anyone, which would be most people, are unaware of that story and even if they were, would still question that it might be a stretch. But, that wasn't the point of my statement anyway. It was trying to show the reasons that not all thoughts about theming and immersion are correct or even reasonable. It doesn't matter what land HM is in because it is in a different one in every park (with a different story). It is the fact that the Tangled theme on the edge of a different land is causing a distraction that ruins the immersion of HM, which doesn't happen until you are right there at the building, and you cannot see it unless you really try from there anyway.

 

[CrescentLake]

Of course that is what you are talking about. You somehow think that it is necessary for the place to separate time and space to create some kind of immersive atmosphere. If that were true, what the hell is HM doing in Liberty Square. You are trying to force what you think should happen park wide against what has been happening from day one of any Disney park. There were different vague areas and within those areas were separate attractions that to some degree tied in with others. However, you can see Space Mountain from almost anyplace in the park as well as Thunder Mtn. and Splash Mountain. There is no divide when space requirements made it impossible to keep them apart visually. You are placing an unnecessary requirement on something that is almost impossible to separate.

You can stand in front of Cinderella Castle and look into just about every other land in the park. The immersion comes from the individual attraction and how it is themed. You have to shift gears if you want immersion. When you walk through the tunnels under the train station at MK, you have immersed yourself into the Magic Kingdom. You are immersed in that world of make-believe and fun. They do not issue blinders when you walk in so that you only can focus on one place or thing. As was said, at some point, if a hurricane doesn't knock them down, the trees will block it's view from some angle, but, there will always be a direction that it can be seen from. It is in an open park and one of the things about those parks is what Walt called "wienies". They were there to attract you attention and draw you in to that area. If you cannot see them, you will not be drawn in.

I had this lengthy typed up response, but honestly, I do not wish to derail the thread any further. All I'll say is, that if you really think and feel all of that, you do not understand what it means to be in a Disney park.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I had this lengthy typed up response, but honestly, I do not wish to derail the thread any further. All I'll say is, that if you really think and feel all of that, you do not understand what it means to be in a Disney park.

I've been going to Disney Parks for 34 years as an adult. 44 trips to WDW, 1 to DLR and 1 to DLP. I think I know a little something about Disney Parks. I have read the books, followed the ideas of Imagineers. I think I know a little something about Disney Parks. I watched the Mickey Mouse Club original cast frolic around DL when it first opened. I watched Disney full length features when I was 6 years old... 62 years ago... I think I know a little about Disney. I also know locally interpreted ideas of theming and immersion are not necessarily what the original intent was or even putting it in a position of nearly impossible. I know what the parks looked like when they were first opened and almost everything was visible from every place. Unless your real name is Walt Disney and you have somehow managed to communicate from beyond you don't know either. So lets just let it drop.

 

[doctornick]

That's not what they're talking about, and you know it.

I shouldn't be able to see anything from Fantasyland in Liberty Square- it breaks immersion. That's why the MK is built on top of a tunnel system, because Walt didn't like seeing a Frontierland Cowboy in Tomorrowland. This is not just a theme park where we throw some rides together and call it a day. They aren't complaining you can see the HM from Liberty Square. They're complaining that you can see a European (fantasy/annimation accented) tower from the Haunted Mansion and Frontierland.

You can see the Matterhorn from pretty much everywhere in Disneyland and Walt seemed to be fine with that.

 

[andysol]

There is no basis for the upset about Tangled being in line with HM. So let's find something legitimate to be upset about, like the fact that I am not there right now.

As the resident Disney apologist, I find it unlikely anything legitimate in your eyes exists. And since when do you determine what is a legitimate gripe for someone?

However, you can see Space Mountain from almost anyplace in the park as well as Thunder Mtn. and Splash Mountain.

I would love to see some pictures of Splash and Thunder from "almost anyplace in the park".

You can see the Matterhorn from pretty much everywhere in Disneyland and Walt seemed to be fine with that.

That was the point of the (derailed) discussion- that MK was designed to overcome many of the flaws that Walt strongly disliked at Disneyland- specifically the breaks in immersion.

I don't care about seeing Rapunzel's Tower- whatever. But I also don't discredit other's opinions just because they speak negatively about my precious Disney (this isn't directed at you @doctornick).

 

[maroonmol]

As much as I love talking about the HM, isn't this thread is supposed to be about the Muppets?

 

[Marty Rotondo]

Of course that is what you are talking about. You somehow think that it is necessary for the place to separate time and space to create some kind of immersive atmosphere. If that were true, what the hell is HM doing in Liberty Square. You are trying to force what you think should happen park wide against what has been happening from day one of any Disney park. There were different vague areas and within those areas were separate attractions that to some degree tied in with others. However, you can see Space Mountain from almost anyplace in the park as well as Thunder Mtn. and Splash Mountain. There is no divide when space requirements made it impossible to keep them apart visually. You are placing an unnecessary requirement on something that is almost impossible to separate.

You can stand in front of Cinderella Castle and look into just about every other land in the park. The immersion comes from the individual attraction and how it is themed. You have to shift gears if you want immersion. When you walk through the tunnels under the train station at MK, you have immersed yourself into the Magic Kingdom. You are immersed in that world of make-believe and fun. They do not issue blinders when you walk in so that you only can focus on one place or thing. As was said, at some point, if a hurricane doesn't knock them down, the trees will block it's view from some angle, but, there will always be a direction that it can be seen from. It is in an open park and one of the things about those parks is what Walt called "wienies". They were there to attract you attention and draw you in to that area. If you cannot see them, you will not be drawn in.

Well considering the haunted mansion is listed under Liberty square in the park map, its probably okay to see it from there. The architecture is also that of a new england mansion. I agree with you though for the record.

 

[Princess Leia]

As much as I love talking about the HM, isn't this thread is supposed to be about the Muppets?

Thanks. The discussion sort of started with the eventual demo of the Kermit balloon, since it would be seen from Star Wars (nothing like a giant green smiling Muppet floating in the air to remind you of the Star Wars universe- and I'm not talking about Yoda), I mentioned the Rapunzel tower being seen from non FL areas, and it sort of derailed from there. My bad.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Well considering the haunted mansion is listed under Liberty square in the park map, its probably okay to see it from there. The architecture is also that of a new england mansion. I agree with you though for the record.

Please read the words I said it was in Liberty Square and questioned why it was there, obviously it is in Disney speak, visible in LS. There is no connection known widely that would justify it being there, yet, there is no righteous outcry. Want to know why? Because it doesn't freaking matter. I can be called an apologist, which is a stupid name anyway and means nothing, all day long. It doesn't stop the idea that the Pixie Dusters must have a perfect setting and are unable to use their own underdeveloped imagination to create the scene that they want. Everything distracts them. Reality must not enter that little fantasy pod in the brain. But, like someone suggested rightfully, we shouldn't even be talking about HM in a Muppets thread, so what say we stop. OK?

 

[CrescentLake]

Thanks. The discussion sort of started with the eventual demo of the Kermit balloon, since it would be seen from Star Wars (nothing like a giant green smiling Muppet floating in the air to remind you of the Star Wars universe- and I'm not talking about Yoda), I mentioned the Rapunzel tower being seen from non FL areas, and it sort of derailed from there. My bad.

It happens! I think you made a good point. Can you imagine seeing a giant smiling Kermit from Star Wars Land? That would totally crush the suspension of disbelief. When I go to a Disney park, I go to be immersed in the land. That's the beauty of a Disney park. Maybe it wasn't always that way, but that standard is what defines Disney today. That is why we have to hold them accountable for that. That is why I am upset if I see a show building or something that doesn't thematically fit.

So imho, you didn't derail a thread, you made a very important point.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

Considering ToT's backside is themed to fit in with Morocco from the distance, its fair to complain about Rapunzel's tower peeking out into LS.

 

[FigmentJedi]

It happens! I think you made a good point. Can you imagine seeing a giant smiling Kermit from Star Wars Land? That would totally crush the suspension of disbelief. When I go to a Disney park, I go to be immersed in the land. That's the beauty of a Disney park. Maybe it wasn't always that way, but that standard is what defines Disney today. That is why we have to hold them accountable for that. That is why I am upset if I see a show building or something that doesn't thematically fit.

Considering the reports from MiceChat of the scope of the Battle Escape ride and the inability to build the huge basement the ride will have in California out in Florida, I think the ride building and rock towers will actually do a good job of blocking out balloon views.

 

[roj2323]

Considering the reports from MiceChat of the scope of the Battle Escape ride and the inability to build the huge basement the ride will have in California out in Florida, I think the ride building and rock towers will actually do a good job of blocking out balloon views.

Yep, they really can't build down at DHS due to the high water table so they will end up building up. It may however lead to some more interesting elevation changes possibly so I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Marty Rotondo]

Please read the words I said it was in Liberty Square and questioned why it was there, obviously it is in Disney speak, visible in LS. There is no connection known widely that would justify it being there, yet, there is no righteous outcry. Want to know why? Because it doesn't freaking matter. I can be called an apologist, which is a stupid name anyway and means nothing, all day long. It doesn't stop the idea that the Pixie Dusters must have a perfect setting and are unable to use their own underdeveloped imagination to create the scene that they want. Everything distracts them. Reality must not enter that little fantasy pod in the brain. But, like someone suggested rightfully, we shouldn't even be talking about HM in a Muppets thread, so what say we stop. OK?

This is true. Also, i mean are we not adults? Dont we all think about the people inside the costumes and how weird it is that they are hugging us and pretending to drink out of my straw? But anyway..... Muppets.

 

[Princess Leia]

Sooo... Anyone know when Pizzerizzo could open up? I'm guessing it will probably be within the month (I don't have any hard facts on that, just speculating).

 

[elchippo]

It happens! I think you made a good point. Can you imagine seeing a giant smiling Kermit from Star Wars Land?

If they'll tear down the Earfull Tower then nothing is really safe. No matter how good whatever is coming may be, literally everything I love(d) about this park has been destroyed or is up for it.

 

[tl77]

Since the old "Fraggle Rock" episodes are being brought back to HBO any chance the Fraggles might get a spot in Muppet Courtyard? "Bear in the Big Blue House" used to hang out and make appearances in the MGM days

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2016/10/10/fraggle-rock-returns-hbo/91868830/

 

[WhatTheDisney94]

Since the old "Fraggle Rock" episodes are being brought back to HBO any chance the Fraggles might get a spot in Muppet Courtyard? "Bear in the Big Blue House" used to hang out and make appearances in the MGM days

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2016/10/10/fraggle-rock-returns-hbo/91868830/

Fraggle Rock isn't owned by Disney. They're still part of the Jim Henson Company. Bear in the Big Blue House was part of Disney's Muppet acquisition.