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News Morocco Pavilion redevelopment

MisterPenguin

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Premium Member
Imagineers have said as much…

Lake bed conditions dictated it be moved slightly. The plan was for it to be centred .

Interesting. I was walking around with an Imagineer last week and heard a different version that I'm not inclined to believe: They determined the exact centerline of the park itself and used that, not realizing that it didn't line up with the American Adventure and SSE.

So.... I guess Imagineers don't know everything. ;)

And if they're wrong about recent stuff (centering of the Stargate), then how reliable are they to know stuff before their being hired (whether ToT was painted/architected to blend with Morocco)?

It's an epistemological nightmare!!!
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
So.... I guess Imagineers don't know everything. ;)

And if they're wrong about recent stuff (centering of the Stargate), then how reliable are they to know stuff before their being hired (whether ToT was painted/architected to blend with Morocco)?

It's an epistemological nightmare!!!

I'm pretty sure the Imagineers who have said it was designed to blend in with Morocco are the ones who actually worked on it.
 

MisterPenguin

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Premium Member
I'm pretty sure the Imagineers who have said it was designed to blend in with Morocco are the ones who actually worked on it.
I thought they emptied out the Imagineering old timers in the pandemic layoffs.

Oral history is notorious for cementing in fake news.

I'm agnostic on the issue until there's a contemporaneous document to the building of ToT in which an imagineer is on record that that's what they intentionally did.
 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
I thought they emptied out the Imagineering old timers in the pandemic layoffs.

Oral history is notorious for cementing in fake news.

I'm agnostic on the issue until there's a contemporaneous document to the building of ToT in which an imagineer is on record that that's what they intentionally did.
Legendary WDI Joe Rohde “ retired “ in 2020. He’s in better digs. He’s a creative exec with Virgin Galactic spearheaded by billionaire Sir Richard Branson.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
I'm agnostic on the issue until there's a contemporaneous document to the building of ToT in which an imagineer is on record that that's what they intentionally did.

Hasn't @marni1971 said that's what they did as well? If so, I'd assume he's talked to people involved and maybe even seen actual internal documentation.
 

MisterPenguin

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Premium Member
Hasn't @marni1971 said that's what they did as well? If so, I'd assume he's talked to people involved and maybe even seen actual internal documentation.
As pointed out above, imagineers can have faulty info if they weren't the ones on the project. Tho, someone having seen documents purposely including Moroccan architecture would be nice.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
As pointed out above, imagineers can have faulty info if they weren't the ones on the project. Tho, someone having seen documents purposely including Moroccan architecture would be nice.

Sure, that's why I said talked to people actually involved.

It does make a kind of intuitive sense considering the other two versions of the attraction don't include any of those embellishments, but who knows.
 

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
So.... I guess Imagineers don't know everything. ;)

And if they're wrong about recent stuff (centering of the Stargate), then how reliable are they to know stuff before their being hired (whether ToT was painted/architected to blend with Morocco)?

It's an epistemological nightmare!!!
I don't know about the centering of Stargate, but I would be surprised if ToT was painted/architected to blend with Morocco turned out to be fake news after all these years.

We know everything is about costs over quality today, but one would hope they cared back then.
 

MisterPenguin

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Premium Member
Well over the years I've heard that uncategorically that it was made to blend in; that it wasn't; and, for the first time in this thread that architecturally yes, but painted , no.
 

Castle Cake Apologist

Well-Known Member
So.... I guess Imagineers don't know everything. ;)

And if they're wrong about recent stuff (centering of the Stargate), then how reliable are they to know stuff before their being hired (whether ToT was painted/architected to blend with Morocco)?

It's an epistemological nightmare!!!

They've been saying that since they built it. This isn't a detail that somebody suddenly started talking about in the last couple years?

You'll notice that the backs of the various other Towers don't have the same detailing.

This is a weird take, even from you. It's like you're throwing old school Imagineering under the bus, in some roundabout attempt to prove that they never really cared, so you can defend modern Disney's lack of care? The embellishments on the back of ToT are very much on purpose.
 
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MisterPenguin

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Premium Member
They've been saying that since they built it. This isn't a detail that somebody suddenly started talking about in the last couple years?

You'll notice that the backs of the various other Towers don't have the same detailing.

This is a weird take, even from you. It's like you're throwing old school Imagineering under the bus, in some roundabout attempt to prove that they never really cared, so you can defend modern Disney's lack of care? The embellishments on the back of ToT are very much on purpose.
You misconstrue my intention. I just want to know the truth. And I'm naturally skeptical of oral tradition.

It's like the *real reason* the Yeti isn't working (internal skeleton can't handle the torque). Or whether the Haunted Mansion has a story attached to it (it doesn't). Or how there is a linear geographic and chronographic development of Liberty Square to BTMR (there ain't).

Stories get told and then warped. People make up backronyms that get repeated and taken as gospel.

Perhaps because the ToT was visible from all sides, they decided to theme all sides. Good for them! But that has nothing to do with Morocco. The back of 'Everest' was themed because it could be seen in and of itself, not because it could be seen in the background of some other land/park. Might be the same for ToT.

Also, you don't need to protect the integrity of long time imagineers. They can make mistakes amongst doing a lot of really good things. And this isn't even a 'mistake.' It might be just a happy coincidence.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
You misconstrue my intention. I just want to know the truth. And I'm naturally skeptical of oral tradition.

It's like the *real reason* the Yeti isn't working (internal skeleton can't handle the torque). Or whether the Haunted Mansion has a story attached to it (it doesn't). Or how there is a linear geographic and chronographic development of Liberty Square to BTMR (there ain't).

Stories get told and then warped. People make up backronyms that get repeated and taken as gospel.

Perhaps because the ToT was visible from all sides, they decided to theme all sides. Good for them! But that has nothing to do with Morocco. The back of 'Everest' was themed because it could be seen in and of itself, not because it could be seen in the background of some other land/park. Might be the same for ToT.

Also, you don't need to protect the integrity of long time imagineers. They can make mistakes amongst doing a lot of really good things. And this isn't even a 'mistake.' It might be just a happy coincidence.

I agree with you about oral tradition (and about skepticism in general; I think people should research/question nearly everything), but this is a case where the supposed explanation at question is arguably the simplest/most logical one.

The embellishments used aren't really what I'd expect to see added to that building, and we know they didn't add anything similar to the other two locations. Obviously we don't know for sure, but I think it makes more sense that those specific design choices were made at WDW because of Morocco than at random.
 
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Castle Cake Apologist

Well-Known Member
You misconstrue my intention. I just want to know the truth. And I'm naturally skeptical of oral tradition.

It's like the *real reason* the Yeti isn't working (internal skeleton can't handle the torque). Or whether the Haunted Mansion has a story attached to it (it doesn't). Or how there is a linear geographic and chronographic development of Liberty Square to BTMR (there ain't).

Stories get told and then warped. People make up backronyms that get repeated and taken as gospel.

Perhaps because the ToT was visible from all sides, they decided to theme all sides. Good for them! But that has nothing to do with Morocco. The back of 'Everest' was themed because it could be seen in and of itself, not because it could be seen in the background of some other land/park. Might be the same for ToT.

Also, you don't need to protect the integrity of long time imagineers. They can make mistakes amongst doing a lot of really good things. And this isn't even a 'mistake.' It might be just a happy coincidence.

To my knowledge, Disney has officially and publicly stated since the Tower was built that the embellishments on the side that faces Epcot were purposefully chosen to lessen the impact on the sight lines from Morocco. They were specifically designed to blend with the architecture of the pavilion.
 

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