News Morocco Pavilion redevelopment

[SplashJacket]

Modifying tower of terror to fit with Morocco just isn’t consistent with expectations.

ToT only lines up with Morocco in specific (not even primary) site lines, so it seems like an odd thing to consider.

It especially seems like an odd thing to consider when you realize ToT opened in 1994 and the creative design choice of Swan and Dolphin opened in 1990.

If they built ToT was actually a big Heinz Ketchup bottle, it would be less obtrusive to World Showcase sight lines than the Swan and Dolphin.

ToT is roughly three quarters of a mile from the Moroccan pavilion and a half mile from Swan and Dolphin.

I don’t deny it could’ve been a design driver, but it just seems like an odd restraint, especially if we treat TWDC as a homogenous creative block.

 

[MisterPenguin]

To my knowledge, Disney has officially and publicly stated since the Tower was built that the embellishments on the side that faces Epcot were purposefully chosen to lessen the impact on the sight lines from Morocco. They were specifically designed to blend with the architecture of the pavilion.

"Disney... stated..." is kinda weak as a source document. If it was put out by their PR department, that makes it even less likely to be true!!

 

[UNCgolf]

I don’t deny it could’ve been a design driver, but it just seems like an odd restraint, especially if we treat TWDC as a homogenous creative block.

This is a potential explanation for the difference (if it's actually true). I don't think Imagineering had any input whatsoever into the Swan and Dolphin (Michael Graves designed those hotels), whereas they were the designers for the Tower of Terror.

 

[Poseidon Quest]

"Disney... stated..." is kinda weak as a source document. If it was put out by their PR department, that makes it even less likely to be true!!

That was a different Disney though. It seems clear to me that despite the often cheap projects, Eisner seemed to care a lot about the integrity of the thematic park experience. He also seemed proud to present Disney as an exceptional product, doing things with a unique eye for detail where other businesses or parks would cut corners. I see no reason not to believe their claim.

Now if Disney states something today? Yeah, it's mostly nonsense. I can't believe that they're trying to sell new children's playgrounds as "Disney storytelling experiences".

 

[Castle Cake Apologist]

"Disney... stated..." is kinda weak as a source document. If it was put out by their PR department, that makes it even less likely to be true!!

Okay, my bad. The Morocco-inspired embellishments found only on the Tower of Terror that happens to face a Morocco pavilion are totally coincidental and not at all on purpose. The fact that Imagineering and Disney have repeatedly stated so over the last nearly thirty years is actually an indication that it couldn't possibly be true. Better?

Literally, what is your game here?

 

[castlecake2.0]

To my knowledge, Disney has officially and publicly stated since the Tower was built that the embellishments on the side that faces Epcot were purposefully chosen to lessen the impact on the sight lines from Morocco. They were specifically designed to blend with the architecture of the pavilion.

Where though? Not arguing, but I’ve never seen this officially released by the company. An email to the archives might be in order when I have some free time.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

Must say I am suddenly very curious about whether Disney did make any special effort to blend ToT with the Morocco pavilion! I've never really questioned that they did as it's been repeated so much online and I'd never seen anyone else debunk the idea in the way so many other Disney urban legends have been over the years.

Surprised to hear that it's supposedly not the colour choice, but special design elements that were included on the back side of the tower to blend with the Morocco pavilion. That is kind of puzzling to me as the colour does kind of make it fade into the background of the pavilion, but ToT itself is so far away that I struggle to see any particular design elements that echo the Morocco pavilion when the two are viewed together.

Hopefully someone can find the answer to what, if anything, was going on here!

 

[LittleBuford]

Must say I am suddenly very curious about whether Disney did make any special effort to blend ToT with the Morocco pavilion! I've never really questioned that they did as it's been repeated so much online and I'd never seen anyone else debunk the idea in the way so many other Disney urban legends have been over the years.

Surprised to hear that it's supposedly not the colour choice, but special design elements that were apparently included on the back side of the tower to blend with. the Morocco pavilion. That is kind of puzzling to me as the colour does kind of make it fade into the background of the pavilion, but ToT itself is so far away that I struggle to see any particular design elements that echo the Morocco pavilion when the two are viewed together.

Hopefully someone can find the answer to what, if anything, was going on here!

These are my thoughts also.

The early concept art shows that the decorative flourishes of the building were there from the outset, though I suppose one might argue that the Imagineers were already taking into account the view from Morocco:

Disney MGM Studios 30th Anniversary Celebration - D&M Tribute Part Two - Sunset Boulevard and Tower of Terror Original Artwork

The Disney Hollywood Studios celebrate their 30th Anniversary on May 1 and D&M join the celebration by a series of articles with most of t...

disneyandmore.blogspot.com

As for the colour, you see such pink buildings a fair bit in the LA area, among them the Beverly Hills Hotel. I wouldn't be entirely surprised to learn that the rapport with Morocco was a happy accident.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Literally, what is your game here?

Asked already, and answered.

 

[UNCgolf]

I wouldn't be entirely surprised to learn that the rapport with Morocco was a happy accident.

I wouldn't be shocked if it was a happy accident, but we also know the Imagineering of that era was very concerned about sight lines and making things fit in a way they are not today (or perhaps are not allowed to be today).

It honestly seems unlikely to me that they wouldn't have considered the view from EPCOT as part of the design process during that time period, regardless of whether they actually changed the design because of it.

 

[Movielover]

These are my thoughts also.

The early concept art shows that the decorative flourishes of the building were there from the outset, though I suppose one might argue that the Imagineers were already taking into account the view from Morocco:

Disney MGM Studios 30th Anniversary Celebration - D&M Tribute Part Two - Sunset Boulevard and Tower of Terror Original Artwork

The Disney Hollywood Studios celebrate their 30th Anniversary on May 1 and D&M join the celebration by a series of articles with most of t...

disneyandmore.blogspot.com

As for the colour, you see such pink buildings a fair bit in the LA area, among them the Beverly Hills Hotel. I wouldn't be entirely surprised to learn that the rapport with Morocco was a happy accident.

That concept art really shows the influence that the Mision Inn had on the design.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

It especially seems like an odd thing to consider when you realize ToT opened in 1994 and the creative design choice of Swan and Dolphin opened in 1990

Or they learned a hard lesson from the Swolphin sightline debacle and avoided it next project.

 

[BubbaisSleep]

I wouldn't be shocked if it was a happy accident, but we also know the Imagineering of that era was very concerned about sight lines and making things fit in a way they are not today (or perhaps are not allowed to be today).

It honestly seems unlikely to me that they wouldn't have considered the view from EPCOT as part of the design process during that time period, regardless of whether they actually changed the design because of it.

If I’m not mistaken, isn’t Epcot the same park that has a country or two slightly themed backstage so that it doesn’t stand out.
I think it was Japan and Germany but I may be completely wrong. Someone posted a picture on here before, maybe I can find it on my laptop.

While it’s not facts, it shows the mentality of Disney when things were being constructed. If they cared enough to theme unseen backstage this much, it’s very possible they considered the view of TOT’s backside as well.

 

[WondersOfLife]

If I’m not mistaken, isn’t Epcot the same park that has a country or two slightly themed backstage so that it doesn’t stand out.
I think it was Japan and Germany but I may be completely wrong. Someone posted a picture on here before, maybe I can find it on my laptop.

While it’s not facts, it shows the mentality of Disney when things were being constructed. If they cared enough to theme unseen backstage this much, it’s very possible they considered the view of TOT’s backside as well.

People are actually debating this? There is no doubt in my mind that it was intentional of TOT's design to blend in with Morocco.

And as other have stated, probably a totally different team of people in charge of Swolphin and that catastrophe.


Imagine caring about something as simple as Sightlines. What a concept. Even Haunted Mansion's box is 10,000Xs better designed than Soarin' and Guardian's monstrosities.... And tron..

They could build Spaceship freaking Earth in the early 80s but they couldn't work something out for guardians and tron? Yeesh.

 

[DoleWhipDrea]

Imagineering didn't design Swolphin and it's unlikely that they were ever asked how they felt about how it would affect sightlines. Eisner was excited to hire a special designer outside of the company, while Disney had a separate project team figuring out how to build a bunch of new hotels on their own. By the time Eisner realized that he wanted to back out of the initial contract because Disney wanted to be in control of building any new hotels on property, Disney was forced to come to an agreement for Swolphin to still be built.

Sightlines used to matter, and like a lot of other things, has become far less of a focus. It's not that WDI isn't capable. A lot of important decisions don't come from the creatives unfortunately.

 

[lazyboy97o]

How the Swan and Dolphin came about has long been publicly known. Disney made an agreement with Tishman to get the EPCOT Center project built that allowed Tidhman to build hotels at Walt Disney World. Eisner came in, learned about this and freaked because they were free to build whatever bland box they desired. He tried to kill the deal, there were lawsuits, and the compromise was that Disney would hire the architect and approve of the design. It wasn’t a Disney design, there were objections over the sightline issues but Eisner thought they were of lesser concern than letting Graves do what he desired.

The Hollywood Tower Hotel not being design with the Morocco pavilion in mind would be multiple coincidences of placement and design. The building was sited just right to align and it gained Moorish Revival design features.

 

[LittleBuford]

How the Swan and Dolphin came about has long been publicly known. Disney made an agreement with Tishman to get the EPCOT Center project built that allowed Tidhman to build hotels at Walt Disney World. Eisner came in, learned about this and freaked because they were free to build whatever bland box they desired. He tried to kill the deal, there were lawsuits, and the compromise was that Disney would hire the architect and approve of the design. It wasn’t a Disney design, there were objections over the sightline issues but Eisner thought they were of lesser concern than letting Graves do what he desired.

The Hollywood Tower Hotel not being design with the Morocco pavilion in mind would be multiple coincidences of placement and design. The building was sited just right to align and it gained Moorish Revival design features.

I agree it seems more deliberate than not, but the features you’re referring to aren’t Moorish Revival. They’re closer to Spanish Colonial Revival.

 

[MisterPenguin]

The Hollywood Tower Hotel not being design with the Morocco pavilion in mind would be multiple coincidences of placement and design. The building was sited just right to align and it gained Moorish Revival design features.

You're saying that the actual placement of the Tower -- where it is situated within DHS -- was done with Morocco in mind?

 

[ToTBellHop]

You're saying that the actual placement of the Tower -- where it is situated within DHS -- was done with Morocco in mind?

Everything in the Florida Project was built with Morocco in mind. You need to rewatch the episode of World of Color.

"So right over here, the Wedway will drop guests off at the Morocco pavilion, but we can only do this if you don't die, Walt. So don't die."

"We call it Morocco. M. O. R. O. C. C. O."

"Do you think you could also bring the Carousel of Progress to Morocco, Walt?" -Gov. Burns
"If we can dream it, we can do it." -Walt

 

[MrHappy]

People are actually debating this? There is no doubt in my mind that it was intentional of TOT's design to blend in with Morocco.

And as other have stated, probably a totally different team of people in charge of Swolphin and that catastrophe.


Imagine caring about something as simple as Sightlines. What a concept. Even Haunted Mansion's box is 10,000Xs better designed than Soarin' and Guardian's monstrosities.... And tron..

They could build Spaceship freaking Earth in the early 80s but they couldn't work something out for guardians and tron? Yeesh.

Don’t forget about spires on a stick at Galaxy’s Edge. Or the France sticks and posters.