Monsters, Inc. Hollywood Studios rumor

[lazyboy97o]

The main difference I see between them is not the number of rides but the story, details and experiences.
Disney does invest more in story, details and experiences in their parks and lands than Uni does.
Does this make Uni less of a park...No.

Universal Studios Florida was designed as a working studio so I am not sure how much more story could be incorporated in that park. I think the sets are much better than were done at Disney-MGM Studios. There is even some production that happens, including on the street sets. I think Islands of Adventure is full of experiential details and story.

 

[Yellow Strap]

Universal Studios Florida was designed as a working studio so I am not sure how much more story could be incorporated in that park. I think the sets are much better than were done at Disney-MGM Studios. There is even some production that happens, including on the street sets. I think Islands of Adventure is full of experiential details and story.

I didn't say there wasn't ANY details or story...but Disney does invest more time in that regard.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I didn't say there wasn't ANY details or story...but Disney does invest more time in that regard.

And I never said you said that. I am curious as to how Universal, outside of the studio theme where Disney also lacks, has not shown as much commitment to experience and details.

 

[spacemt354]

No - because you failed to understand the stuff I outlined was all NEW and innovative directions. What you attempted to do does not work because everything in red already existed BEFORE NFE - so it's not going to be new and innovative directions. Just a new version of what already existed.

The food angle isn't the same. BOG is just going to be another restaurant, themed to a place from the movie. The difference is in WWOHP, the food WAS part of the story. From the various candies, to butterbeer itself. They were PART of the story that people were dying to experience themselves. 'Just what DOES butterbeer actually taste like that make them like it so much?' 'What does a magical chocolate frog really look like?'.

You've fallen into the classic theme park copy-cat's mistake..

Try to copy what someone else is doing - without actually understanding WHY what they did works or not. So when you clone it, it doesn't work the same.

I'm not sure you understand the concept of WHY I had posted my original statement regarding both parks. It's fine to like both parks. I truly look forward to the WWOHP, but it seems like you think I am on some crusade to devalue it's detail and story. I'm not. And it's fine to like one more than the other as well. But I don't like one more than the other. I don't view HP in any negative fashion out of some spite because I'm also looking forward to the additions to FL. I try to view each of the projects with a positive outlook. I don't try to hyperbolize a project, and I don't try to devalue a project. I simply look at them for what they are in my perspective. If you think I'm wrong, I don't really care, because the only thing I'm trying to do is be fair in my assessments. You're entitled to your opinion about the projects, just as I am entitled to mine. So you can claim I don't know what I'm talking about or that I don't understand the "why" of things. Again, I don't care. Because I'm a huge Potter fan, just like I am a huge Disney fan, so I look forward to enjoying both lands.

 

[spacemt354]

My two cents...
Universal has great rides and lately they have really upped their game in terms of development and implementation. Great for them. I like Universal. HP Land is incredibly well themed and fun.

The main difference I see between them is not the number of rides but the story, details and experiences.
Disney does invest more in story, details and experiences in their parks and lands than Uni does.
Does this make Uni less of a park...No.

Obviously USO is going to be second to Disney for a awhile. They don't have enough land and time to catch up in the conceivable future. Even after HP, they trailed attendence by nearly 10 million. That is big.

WDW lately had invested more in hotels, restaurants and other experiences. Why? Their plan is to get people to make WDW a destination for a full week. That equals more money.

Right now Uni is a great place to visit for one or two days. It is not a Destination. Rides alone do not make a destination. Now they have plans for a new hotel. Great. That is a start.

As it stands, the majority of people going to Uni are either staying at Disney or spending the majority of their vacation at Disney.

Personally...variety is great. I like to have choices. I don't go to Uni every year we are in Orlando, but I try every couple. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

Exactly.

 

[KCheatle]

Well...all it took was one legitimate question followed by 6 pages of completely illegitimate, immature, uninformed and overall negative responses to remind me of why I quit reading the Rumors board! I think they should have 2 rumors boards - one that you cannot post negatively in and then keep this crap-tastic one.

 

[cheezbat]

While I believe the Fantasyland expansion looks great, I'm just not all that excited about it. Mermaid is a decent ride, but not on the level of Spaceship Earth or Haunted Mansion. I do believe that the 7 Dwarf coaster will be unique and new tech, but a ride that will be too short. It's a shame they couldn't have turned this thing into a full-blown E-ticket.
That all being said, Potter phase 1 could do battle well against FLE, but with Potter phase 2, it's no competition...Universal will take the cake.

Now getting back on track...such a shame Monsters Inc coaster is basically just collecting dust. It would have been a great much needed ride for DHS.

 

[flynnibus]

I'm not sure you understand the concept of WHY I had posted my original statement regarding both parks. It's fine to like both parks. I truly look forward to the WWOHP, but it seems like you think I am on some crusade to devalue it's detail and story. I'm not. And it's fine to like one more than the other as well. But I don't like one more than the other. I don't view HP in any negative fashion out of some spite because I'm also looking forward to the additions to FL

It's not about what one 'likes' or not. When you talk about the industry or practice or design - it's about being objective and looking at it as a product. You understand what went into a choice and aim to understand why certain outcomes work differently then others.

You don't write a book on a new concept and say 'you know what, everyone loves this topic - so this is gonna be a hit'. When breaking new ground, you make something that people are drawn into.. and they like it as a RESULT of your work, not because they liked it to start with. When you innovate - you are ahead of the target audience.. you aim where you think they will love to flock to.

You were dismissive of the WWOHP project as only being innovative in FJ - an opinion that is blind to all the other aspects the project brought that were advances in the industry and what culminate in the success of the WWOHP project.

Spiderman was just as an impressive ride advancement as FJ was when it opened. But Superhero Island, which actually has more significant attractions than Hogsmeade, wasn't nearly as a resounding success as WWOHP has been even with an attraction universally accepted as the best in the world. Why? Because Superhero Island, outside of the attractions themselves isn't compelling. Compared to WWOHP, where the shops, food, props, and scenery are just as big of attractions as FJ itself is. That's the 'mojo' that WWOHP brought to the table. The value of the subject matter.. where guests can actually envision themselves being wizards themselves.. going to a wizard school or town.. this story lends itself so strongly to being replicated in reality and allowing guests to immersive themselves in the story and play along with it.

THOSE are the supporting elements that make WWOHP so compelling and such a success. Its why WWOHP can get by with just retheming dueling dragons, etc. Those aren't the main draws!

Now compare that to FLE. Is there the same type of draw to role play? Are there as many elements from the film that you just gotta replay yourself as part of the cast/show?

Are you simply going to be put into disbelief by the details in FLE? Or are you going to be excited by the details in FLE to the point of chasing them?

Look at DAK - it has some of the most impressive themed elements of any of the parks. Yet it falls flat on so many guests simply because the subject matter itself doesn't resonate with the guests. It's not just about level of detail or effort - it's about CONNECTING with the guest too. This is why design isn't just about 'who is the most accurate', etc.. and story telling includes all the supporting elements and twists that drawn the audience in.

You're entitled to your opinion about the projects, just as I am entitled to mine. So you can claim I don't know what I'm talking about or that I don't understand the "why" of things. Again, I don't care. Because I'm a huge Potter fan, just like I am a huge Disney fan, so I look forward to enjoying both lands.

You should aim to learn WHY things work or not and understand what intrinsically steers people into liking one or the other. If you want to engage in discussions on theory, futures, innovation, design, etc - that is the meat of the matter. It's not 'which is your favorite princess?' - but one can talk about the character design that does into each that makes each character more likable than another to the larger population.

You can't limit yourself to only building what you like. You must be able to take material that is not your own and make it compelling and desirable to others too. That requires understanding what makes things tick and be attractive.. and being able to apply those types of principles to new areas and MAKE them become 'likable'

 

[Condorman]

Uh, Flynnibus? You really need to get off your pretentious, self-gratifying soapbox and relax. How embarrassing for you to be so pedantically condescending on a discussion board for Walt Disney World. You're either 15 years old, or 45 years old with the behavioral mentality of a 15 year old. Look at this:

You should aim to learn WHY things work or not and understand what intrinsically steers people into liking one or the other. If you want to engage in discussions on theory, futures, innovation, design, etc - that is the meat of the matter. It's not 'which is your favorite princess?' - but one can talk about the character design that does into each that makes each character more likable than another to the larger population.

What an arrogant, holier-than-thou statement towards someone expressing their opinion and viewpoint that happens to be opposite your own. And how humiliating to be taking such a stance about faux-mountains, amusement park kiddie-coasters and popcorn kiosks. A word of advice from a true adult? Chill out, cupcake.

Incidentally, in 2011, IoA saw 7.7m people in attendance. DHS, WDW's least attended park, saw 9.7m. MK? 17.1m. My point? You are clearly championing the Universal underdog and we're all happy for you. Competition is a good thing. But Disney has nothing to worry about, and the numbers back that up. Like it or not, Disney is the more popular of the two. They make a better product on screen and in real life, and that is not a matter of personal opinion but the sum total of the pop culture equation. And that -- to quote your favorite public speaker... you -- is what makes them "more likable than another to the larger population."

 

[maxairmike]

Uh, Flynnibus? You really need to get off your pretentious, self-gratifying soapbox and relax. How embarrassing for you to be so pedantically condescending on a discussion board for Walt Disney World. You're either 15 years old, or 45 years old with the behavioral mentality of a 15 year old. Look at this:



What an arrogant, holier-than-thou statement towards someone expressing their opinion and viewpoint that happens to be opposite your own. And how humiliating to be taking such a stance about faux-mountains, amusement park kiddie-coasters and popcorn kiosks. A word of advice from a true adult? Chill out, cupcake.

Incidentally, in 2011, IoA saw 7.7m people in attendance. DHS, WDW's least attended park, saw 9.7m. MK? 17.1m. My point? You are clearly championing the Universal underdog and we're all happy for you. Competition is a good thing. But Disney has nothing to worry about, and the numbers back that up. Like it or not, Disney is the more popular of the two. They make a better product on screen and in real life, and that is not a matter of personal opinion but the sum total of the pop culture equation. And that -- to quote your favorite public speaker... you -- is what makes them "more likable than another to the larger population."

How many times does it need to be said that the raw attendance numbers are categorically useless and mean almost nothing when discussing competition between Disney and Universal? Look at the real numbers (per capita, LOS, conversion numbers, etc.) and you'll see that Disney has at best remained stagnant while Universal is matching or exceeding in most all of the important ones.

I sometimes wonder if the same person holds at least 3 accounts on here...

As for the Monsters Inc. coaster, I have very low hopes of it happening/getting any further along than it already is for at least the next 3-5 years. There has been activity at the location off and on the last few years, but nothing has ever come of it, and I don't think the activity was any more than preliminary observation of the area (likely needlessly done multiple times over at a not insignificant cost...*sigh*).

 

[Ignohippo]

Uh, Flynnibus? You really need to get off your pretentious, self-gratifying soapbox and relax. How embarrassing for you to be so pedantically condescending on a discussion board for Walt Disney World. You're either 15 years old, or 45 years old with the behavioral mentality of a 15 year old. Look at this:



What an arrogant, holier-than-thou statement towards someone expressing their opinion and viewpoint that happens to be opposite your own. And how humiliating to be taking such a stance about faux-mountains, amusement park kiddie-coasters and popcorn kiosks. A word of advice from a true adult? Chill out, cupcake.

Incidentally, in 2011, IoA saw 7.7m people in attendance. DHS, WDW's least attended park, saw 9.7m. MK? 17.1m. My point? You are clearly championing the Universal underdog and we're all happy for you. Competition is a good thing. But Disney has nothing to worry about, and the numbers back that up. Like it or not, Disney is the more popular of the two. They make a better product on screen and in real life, and that is not a matter of personal opinion but the sum total of the pop culture equation. And that -- to quote your favorite public speaker... you -- is what makes them "more likable than another to the larger population."

How ironic that you come on here as probably one of the most condescending posters on these boards and yet accuse someone else of the behavior you revel in.

And nice job bringing name-calling into what was a civil (yet spirited) discussion.

I wish there was a "fail" button on these boards...

 

[Ignohippo]

I'm not sure you understand the concept of WHY I had posted my original statement regarding both parks. It's fine to like both parks. I truly look forward to the WWOHP, but it seems like you think I am on some crusade to devalue it's detail and story. I'm not. And it's fine to like one more than the other as well. But I don't like one more than the other. I don't view HP in any negative fashion out of some spite because I'm also looking forward to the additions to FL. I try to view each of the projects with a positive outlook. I don't try to hyperbolize a project, and I don't try to devalue a project. I simply look at them for what they are in my perspective. If you think I'm wrong, I don't really care, because the only thing I'm trying to do is be fair in my assessments. You're entitled to your opinion about the projects, just as I am entitled to mine. So you can claim I don't know what I'm talking about or that I don't understand the "why" of things. Again, I don't care. Because I'm a huge Potter fan, just like I am a huge Disney fan, so I look forward to enjoying both lands.

First, you're backtracking on your original statements. You said that the FLE will be just as groundbreaking as WWOHP, and that's simply not true in any aspect. That's not to say it won't be a nice addition, but it won't be anything close to what Potter is.

I'm also curious as to how you can make these statements when you haven't even been to see WWOHP for yourself to make an educated assessment.

 

[Ignohippo]

I sometimes wonder if the same person holds at least 3 accounts on here...

I have been wondering the exact same thing!

 

[Yellow Strap]

And I never said you said that. I am curious as to how Universal, outside of the studio theme where Disney also lacks, has not shown as much commitment to experience and details.

OK..I understand what you mean. What I meant was the very specific detail and story behind every aspect in the parks. They are very specific stories behind every shop, store and ride in MK. Whether or not these stories make perfect sense for them to there, the investment is evident.

The level of commitment in this area is different between the two companies.
Personally, I think the average park attendee will never notice these details, but I do. And I appreciate that effort.

 

[Ignohippo]

As for the Monsters Inc. coaster, I have very low hopes of it happening/getting any further along than it already is for at least the next 3-5 years. There has been activity at the location off and on the last few years, but nothing has ever come of it, and I don't think the activity was any more than preliminary observation of the area (likely needlessly done multiple times over at a not insignificant cost...*sigh*).

If they aren't green lit it yet, with the sequel coming out next year, then I don't see it ever happening (which is completely mind-boggling).

I honestly believe the 7DMT has been a huge reason for it not happening. The suits have spread out the FLE until 2014, so they probably feel there's no need for any other expansions until 2015 at the earliest. The fact that the 7DMT is a coaster as well probably doesn't help either.

We can only hope that they'll do for DHS what they did at MK and green light a bunch of projects at once...

 

[CinematicFusion]

With Avatar land starting production in 2013-14 and then being complete in 2016-17.... I don't think we will see anything big starting production in Hollywood studios until 2017-2018.

Your thoughts?

 

[lazyboy97o]

OK..I understand what you mean. What I meant was the very specific detail and story behind every aspect in the parks. They are very specific stories behind every shop, store and ride in MK. Whether or not these stories make perfect sense for them to there, the investment is evident.

The level of commitment in this area is different between the two companies.
Personally, I think the average park attendee will never notice these details, but I do. And I appreciate that effort.

Particularly with older works such as the Mahic Kingdom, many of the more specific back stores were grafted on in more recent years when Disney became obcessed with specific stories and backstories. Such strains of storytelling are found within Islands of Adventure.

 

[spacemt354]

I wasn't really talking about that. I don't know whether someone likes Disney more or less, I was just saying it's fine to like Disney and Uni, and we don't have to get into mind numbing debates over this and that regarding the two parks.

And now I gotta say..come on. Really? You hyperbolize one park and then undermind the other. This was what I was talking about. With WWOHP, Uni broke new ground on one ride, Forbidden Journey. Other than that, they simply rethemed two rides that were already there, and added themes from HP series that appease the masses due to Harry Potter's popularity. I've never been on FJ. I'm sure it's awesome, and they did break new ground, but looking at the project as a whole, that was the only thing that really "broke new ground" to me. Then move onto FLE...."there isn't a single attraction there that hasn't been done before"...although 7D may not be the E-ticket people want, or the size people think it should be, it is using a new ride system that has never been done before. Regardless of the attraction's size, or apparent lack thereof, that doesn't dismiss the idea that it's new. And the place isn't finished yet, heck not close at the rate it is being constructed. But to say FLE has nothing new isn't true, and that kind of statement devalues a project that I believe will turn out quite spectacular in terms of detail and design.

First, you're backtracking on your original statements. You said that the FLE will be just as groundbreaking as WWOHP, and that's simply not true in any aspect. That's not to say it won't be a nice addition, but it won't be anything close to what Potter is.

I'm also curious as to how you can make these statements when you haven't even been to see WWOHP for yourself to make an educated assessment.

Ignohippo,

Please describe to me where I said in my original statement that the FLE will be "just as groundbreaking" as WWOHP.

And I'm curious as to how you can make statements about the FLE then, since apparently you have to have been to the place yourself to make an educated assessment of it. Someone can make an educated guess regarding a place without having been there before. People are doing that all the time with the FLE, so I don't see why I can't do it with HP. And just for you, I'll give you my full trip analysis in detail of HP when I visit.

 

[Next Big Thing]

I'll respectfully disagree. Theres a battle looming now in Orlando not seen since the mid 80s when MCA announced USO. To directly quote Eisner from back then "they invaded our home turf."

I'd doubt that anything will move the WDW parks from their current position and ranking, but the more hits the opposition makes the more the dents will finally stick. Comcast have realised what a cash cow is and how to work it. When will TDO discover again you have to speculate to accumulate?

The real winner in this will be the theme park guest. Whether TDO finally counteracts or not.

Hopefully you're right and WDW does finally respond at some point. It is great for the guest to have something like this, but Disney really does need to get moving. Not only are more and more of their fan base beginning to realize the the way things are currently run, but they are being made to look like fools right now.The opportunity is there, they need to take it and head out to the battlefield.

 

[spacemt354]

You should aim to learn WHY things work or not and understand what intrinsically steers people into liking one or the other. If you want to engage in discussions on theory, futures, innovation, design, etc - that is the meat of the matter. It's not 'which is your favorite princess?' - but one can talk about the character design that does into each that makes each character more likable than another to the larger population.

You can't limit yourself to only building what you like. You must be able to take material that is not your own and make it compelling and desirable to others too. That requires understanding what makes things tick and be attractive.. and being able to apply those types of principles to new areas and MAKE them become 'likable'

Thanks for the life lessons but...we are talking about theme parks for crying out loud. Geez, give me a break. I have better things to do then to psychoanalyze what "intrinsically steers" people into liking one attraction or the other. The only influential opinion to get me to see an attraction is my own. People can like whatever they what. I like both Potter and Disney, so I am going to see both this time.