Monorails to no longer operate during Evening Extra Magic Hours

[Cosmic Commando]

For all of the financial wizards in this thread, how many times have you sent your resume in to Disney? I'm amazed at how quick people are to become a financial genius when a company does something they don't like or agree with. How many people here are heading a company that employs 50k-60k people? It's easy to say what they should be doing, especially when you don't know all of the numbers and facts.


And for those who are going to "show them" by not going, please follow through on that. That means less people for me to wait behind when I go.

If we all seem like financial wizards, it's because a decision like this should be easy: if the monorail system cannot meet its operational demands, then fix it. Fixing it could be more trains, rebuilt trains, new trains, infrastructure upgrades... but not cutbacks.

These monorails have been operating as long as, and likely logged more miles than, any monorails in Disney history. Nothing lasts forever. Fix it!

 

[draybook]

I suppose I worded it wrong. I find it amusing that any time something is announced here, people get up in arms before they even see the process in action. Does it sound like a bad idea, absolutely. Have we seen it actually happen and do w know the actual repercussions, no.

That doesn't mean we should grab the pitchforks and torches and march straight to the TDO offices. Give it a week or two and see how it actually affects people and traffic. But by all means, we should be be emailing them with our displeasure.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

We don't have to wait a week to see the fact that shutting down a primary form of transportation will cause traffic problems, and that it's a cutback at the expense of park guests. This is something that has no benefits for park goers, no matter how much you tell people to wait and see.

 

[marni1971]

peachykeen; interesting. Thanks for the insight and welcome :wave:

I`ll liken in to another item;

How many people know Wishes is being run cheaper, with fewer shells (a lot fewer) than a year ago? This was a decision made at in-park level and proposed to the higher ups. It was either lighten the show or shorten the show. The show is still the same length and to the vast majority looks the same.

 

[Uncle Lupe]

And when the Eisner removal came up snake eyes, why do you think double or nothing would improve the situation?

Past results have no bearing on future outcomes. Gotta hit it big if ya keep trying. Should we all start waving for the monorail?

Determinate

 

[draybook]

We don't have to wait a week to see the fact that shutting down a primary form of transportation will cause traffic problems, and that it's a cutback at the expense of park guests. This is something that has no benefits for park goers, no matter how much you tell people to wait and see.

Well sir, then I stand by my original statement. You guys can roid rage all you want and pout, I'll be heading to the parks. I go in September so I'm not exactly fighting the masses to get to the TTC and I'm not privileged enough to afford the Deluxe resorts, so I'm not getting gouged there. It will be business as usual for me!

Although I do agree that they should build a parking lot closer to the MK so they don't have issues like this ton contend with.

 

[Scuttle]

Does anyone know the actual problem with the monorails? To me this sounds like a track problem and not a problem with the trains.

 

[rpmcobra]

Just booked 7 days at the Poly but now have second thoughts. Our stay is during the MNNS so that leaves even less regular hours.We use the monorail for dinner reservations between monorail resorts, or just to visit gift shops, lounges, etc. at night. It might backfire on them- people like to stay for the fireworks, etc but now all will have to be sure to get on the monorail within 1 hour. What happens when there are still lines and no more monorails ??? Chaos !!! The ferry can only take so many people per hour.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I guess you missed the part about there being more to monorail system maintenance than just the trains. I'm not surprised.

If this time is being used for maintenance than they're spending more on labor hours. They could increase the size of the maintenance team so that more gets done in the standard time, but then they would still be paying all of those Monorail Cast Members to operate the lines.

No way would it cost that much. Plenty of companies out there can build new trains for a lot less. $20mil should replace the whole fleet, if properly contracted.

That would be a huge leap for The Walt Disney Company and Walt Disney Imagineering.

People keep ignoring another point that has been up on here again and again, but there is more to maintenance than just the trains themselves. The track too is a concern. If, by doing this, they are adding an extra year or two to the life of the monorail track before they have to completely renovate this, it might work out to push off a major overhaul until they are in a better position to absorb the cost / downtime / etc than they are right now.

Then they are just delaying the inevitable and risking a rise in costs of labor and materials.

For all of the financial wizards in this thread, how many times have you sent your resume in to Disney? I'm amazed at how quick people are to become a financial genius when a company does something they don't like or agree with. How many people here are heading a company that employs 50k-60k people? It's easy to say what they should be doing, especially when you don't know all of the numbers and facts.

We do not need exact numbers. We know the size of the Company and Resort and how, when it was smaller and charging less was able to do things that today are deemed "too much".

I suppose I worded it wrong. I find it amusing that any time something is announced here, people get up in arms before they even see the process in action. Does it sound like a bad idea, absolutely. Have we seen it actually happen and do w know the actual repercussions, no.

That doesn't mean we should grab the pitchforks and torches and march straight to the TDO offices. Give it a week or two and see how it actually affects people and traffic. But by all means, we should be be emailing them with our displeasure.

Then please do tell us how this is not the removal of a service for which the Resort charges a premium.

 

[kangaand2roos]

This change was begged for by hourly Cast Members in the department who used to have deep pride in their role, but have since become embarassed by the train's lack of reliability. Several Cast wrote multi-page emails to the VP of transportation and his superiors outlining the issues that the Monorails were having (basically everything that is brought up on all the other threads about Monorails being unreliable) and it was a huge victory in the Cast's eyes to see their opinions being heard and to have them agree to shorten the operating time in order to get the trains worked on properly. I know many of you don't believe it, but this IS about helping to keep the trains maintained. This is not about "jipping" the customer as so many of you here think. I work closely with the people who had to help make this decision, a lot closer than probably anyone in this thread. It was a tough decision, but they don't have the money to spend on new trains yet. Transportation is referred to as the "red-headed stepchild" department, even by its leaders. Even if Disney THE COMPANY has the money to buy the Monorails, Disney TRANSPORT does not get a big share. So Disney Transport had to make the tough call to cut hours to keep the trains maintained.

One of the Monorail managers I talked to recently summed it up great by saying "They are spending all this money on the Fantasyland expansion, but how do they think people are going to get there if the Monorails can't run?"

I guess it is just disheartening to see people emailing and calling in to change a decision that was fought for so hard by the hourly cast who are embarassed to always have to stand at the bottom of the ramp and direct Guests to watercraft or buses and know that the trains don't have time to be maintained properly. They didn't fight for this change so they could get "shorter days" or work less. The hourly cast got together and fought for it so that the trains could be fixed, and the Guests could be transported quickly and reliably on a system that they love.

Sorry, rant over.

All that may be true, however families book the 3 resorts on the monorail for that reason. Of course there are always gliches and breakdowns so it may not be available aometimes. However people are expecting this and willing to pay the premium for that service. I mean the monorail runs right thru the CR so why wouldn't you expect to be able to use it? Disney may not be trying to "jip" their deluxe customers staying at the MK resorts but they end up doing just that. If they don't have the service they should offer the resort at a lower price. WL doesn't have monorail service but is offered at a lower price. I feel for the CM's but there were other choices.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Well sir, then I stand by my original statement. You guys can roid rage all you want and pout, I'll be heading to the parks. I go in September so I'm not exactly fighting the masses to get to the TTC and I'm not privileged enough to afford the Deluxe resorts, so I'm not getting gouged there. It will be business as usual for me!

Although I do agree that they should build a parking lot closer to the MK so they don't have issues like this ton contend with.

I wasn't aware that complaining about a legitimate cutback in guest amenities and features was akin to roid raging or pouting. No one is attacking you, they're calling out Disney for a butt headed move to cut back costs at the expense of park guests. Not only does this affect the people who take the monorails, it will end up making the boats and buses (bleck) more of a hassle. People that would have otherwise taken the monorail will now be using those forms of transport instead, causing some nasty crowd issues.

This will hurt everyone, not just deluxe resort guests.

 

[sshindel]

Past results have no bearing on future outcomes. Gotta hit it big if ya keep trying. Should we all start waving for the monorail?

Determinate

Vegas must love you. I just have to get my powerball tickets to agree with you.

 

[scottnj1966]

This makes good sense for cost and maintenance reasons. But people are going to have the usual reactions. From my perspective though, decisions like this are absolutely essential to how the resort can best function in the future. In this economy something has to give.

Gotta go.

Our econmy is bad yes, Disney's is not. they have brought many more overseas guests here. They have raised the prices many times to cover everything.
The more they remove the basics, the more they turn into more of a six flags.

Management should have these parks running perfectly with the money they have now.
No excuses.

 

[peachykeen]

Does anyone know the actual problem with the monorails? To me this sounds like a track problem and not a problem with the trains.

Both. If you look off the roof of the Contemp, you can see a bunch of patches that have been done because pieces of the beam will fall off. It's not just there, but its easiest to see there. And the patches can't be made until after shut down. Say the park closes at 11, the beam will probably finally be shutdown at around 1:45am. Then the work tractor will need to make its way to the section of beam that needs patching. They will work on that, and by 5:15 the openers are showing up and that tractor has to be done and back at Shop by 6am at the latest. That only leaves about 4 hours for the work to be done AND for the concrete to dry. If it's not dry enough, the patch falls off a few hours later, the trains are reduced to "walking speed from Pylon x to Pylon y then resume normal speed" and the process repeats itself. If the park is open until 3am, the Resort beam stays hot throughout the night. The only maintenance the trains on Resort beam get that day is a quick check with a flashlight under the wheel-well covers (which are having a tendency lately to come loose and rip off trains as they enter a station) and they scan the AMVS and say "10-8, good to go." Generally, those Resort trains that never got a chance to go back to Shop don't make it through the next day without an unexpected trip back, with the ensuing downtime.

Also parts are literally falling off of the trains. Green's collector shoe ripped up a piece of buss bar on the 3rd of July which caused not only the train to go down but also the beam. Green also I believe was the train that caused a transmitter to fall off the beam between MK and GF and start a grass fire.

I have had a bus driver come up to me with a piece of a train that fell off into the bus loop and say "I think this is your guys." That's not embarrassing at all......

A few weeks ago I watched a Monorail shower down sparks on a group of Guests just as it enter MK on Express. That train went immediately to shop, but to add more drama to the scene, Security went running underneath the train all the way to the Switchbeam yelling "STOP STOP!" to any Guest who attempted to, heaven forbid, WALK underneath the Monorail as it was moving. That scene, to me, was the straw that broke the camel's back for my pride in that department.

 

[marni1971]

The Highway in the Sky...

So sad.

 

[Kamikaze]

Both. If you look off the roof of the Contemp, you can see a bunch of patches that have been done because pieces of the beam will fall off. It's not just there, but its easiest to see there. And the patches can't be made until after shut down. Say the park closes at 11, the beam will probably finally be shutdown at around 1:45am. Then the work tractor will need to make its way to the section of beam that needs patching. They will work on that, and by 5:15 the openers are showing up and that tractor has to be done and back at Shop by 6am at the latest. That only leaves about 4 hours for the work to be done AND for the concrete to dry. If it's not dry enough, the patch falls off a few hours later, the trains are reduced to "walking speed from Pylon x to Pylon y then resume normal speed" and the process repeats itself. If the park is open until 3am, the Resort beam stays hot throughout the night. The only maintenance the trains on Resort beam get that day is a quick check with a flashlight under the wheel-well covers (which are having a tendency lately to come loose and rip off trains as they enter a station) and they scan the AMVS and say "10-8, good to go." Generally, those Resort trains that never got a chance to go back to Shop don't make it through the next day without an unexpected trip back, with the ensuing downtime.

Also parts are literally falling off of the trains. Green's collector shoe ripped up a piece of buss bar on the 3rd of July which caused not only the train to go down but also the beam. Green also I believe was the train that caused a transmitter to fall off the beam between MK and GF and start a grass fire.

I have had a bus driver come up to me with a piece of a train that fell off into the bus loop and say "I think this is your guys." That's not embarrassing at all......

A few weeks ago I watched a Monorail shower down sparks on a group of Guests just as it enter MK on Express. That train went immediately to shop, but to add more drama to the scene, Security went running underneath the train all the way to the Switchbeam yelling "STOP STOP!" to any Guest who attempted to, heaven forbid, WALK underneath the Monorail as it was moving. That scene, to me, was the straw that broke the camel's back for my pride in that department.

If what you're saying is true, thats all well and good. But the thing is: This change is only 2 extra hours a week. Total. Its not like they are stopping the monorails from 7pm to 7am. If they did that, and said it was for essential maintenance, I think a lot more people would understand. But just limiting it to '1 hour after normal park closing, every single night' doesn't jive with what you're saying.

 

[Spike-in-Berlin]

Wow, that thread literally exploded in the last 24 hrs, didn't it?

 

[puntagordabob]

Justify it all you want.. Disney has the money, but they can get away with not spending it and people will defend it as 'smart business'.

Funny...this is exactly what I read on the DLR focused forums in reference to how they think us WDWers are too!! The Disneyland fans overwhelmingly think we are fools over on the West Coast.

Anyone who can defend what's going on at WDW now is an apologist of the highest degree.

Bilk the customer.

Offer less.

Maximize profits in the short term.

That's Disney's sound business strategy in Florida.

sad that I cannot argue with you!

Not that I support this event, but how can there be any healthy person complaining about the walk to the Contemporary? If you've been walking the park for "15 hours" as some have said, then that little stretch should be a piece of cake. Yeah, you're paying for the perk, but until enough people stand up against TDO and get this changed then you have to adapt.

I see everyone's point though. I'm just a little guy staying at PoP but I think it will be interesting to see all of those people trying to leave after EMH, and I'm going during off-season in September.

First off, my teenage son is handicapped.... Secondly, this is Florida and the weather tends be be hot and rainy especially in the summer with virtually no warning (I live here so dont bother arguing the weather!)... third, people have pay quite a premium to be on the monorail line and it isnt a reach to conclude they would be peeved about this change.

You say you stay at POP which is a nice resort that I have enjoyed stayng at in the past..... but lets be fair: you pay substantially less for a room there at Pop Century than you do at the GF, POLY, CR & CR@BLT... As a Passholder Ive gotten a POP room for as little as $70 before...where as at the monorail resorts the cheapest room probably is around $400 ...that is a farcry of a price difference. Monorail access has always been part of the unwritten promise by Disney for the last 39 years... changing it now is wrong...no Grey area what so ever.

Again, this change does not affect me. I've never stayed Deluxe, .

Wow... so since you have never been at a deluxe and it doesnt affect you then its OK for Disney to do this? lol....

This change was begged for by hourly Cast Members in the department who used to have deep pride in their role, but have since become embarassed by the train's lack of reliability. Several Cast wrote multi-page emails to the VP of transportation and his superiors outlining the issues that the Monorails were having (basically everything that is brought up on all the other threads about Monorails being unreliable) and it was a huge victory in the Cast's eyes to see their opinions being heard and to have them agree to shorten the operating time in order to get the trains worked on properly..........
One of the Monorail managers I talked to recently summed it up great by saying "They are spending all this money on the Fantasyland expansion, but how do they think people are going to get there if the Monorails can't run?"
.

I mean no disrespect.....but how were the trains maintained for the other 30+ years that allowed them to operate? If the trains are old and need to be replaced then I sincerely hope that was in your petition to management.

If we all seem like financial wizards, it's because a decision like this should be easy: if the monorail system cannot meet its operational demands, then fix it. Fixing it could be more trains, rebuilt trains, new trains, infrastructure upgrades... but not cutbacks.

These monorails have been operating as long as, and likely logged more miles than, any monorails in Disney history. Nothing lasts forever. Fix it!

Agreed.

I suppose I worded it wrong. I find it amusing that any time something is announced here, people get up in arms before they even see the process in action. Does it sound like a bad idea, absolutely. Have we seen it actually happen and do w know the actual repercussions, no.

That doesn't mean we should grab the pitchforks and torches and march straight to the TDO offices. Give it a week or two and see how it actually affects people and traffic. But by all means, we should be be emailing them with our displeasure.

Sometimes that is true...but in this case it is clear nonsense for them to do this....

.......OK here is my thoughts on this: Fix the fleet....replace the fleet... this band-aid approach is stupid.... what happens when a monorail fails and cannot be fixed back up? Mothball it and run with one less monorail?? I bet the answer would be Yes.. Any well operated company would have been depreciating the fleet over its expected life time (which it has apparently greatly gonr far beyond!) and having the replacement funds ready to go when the time is right (which is now apparently!) to bring in new monorails.

A Guest walking back to their room at the Contemporary perhaps during a rain squall will not give a darn about all these excuses...what they will say is WHY THE HECK IS MY MONORAIL SITTING HERE IDLE?

 

[Scuttle]

I don't get why they don't wait until September to actually take the whole system down for a few days and do the repairs that really need to be done (to the track atleast). I would much rather have the entire system down for a few days or even weeks if it fixes the WDW monorail system.

 

[peachykeen]

If what you're saying is true, thats all well and good. But the thing is: This change is only 2 extra hours a week. Total. Its not like they are stopping the monorails from 7pm to 7am. If they did that, and said it was for essential maintenance, I think a lot more people would understand. But just limiting it to '1 hour after normal park closing, every single night' doesn't jive with what you're saying.

I haven't seen the "official" release that was given to Guests, but in the info that was given to CMs, under the FAQs if a Guests asks why this was done it is:

"From time to time, we make adjustments to our operations to accommodate for planned transportation maintenance. "

In the past, the Resort line stayed open until the park cleared. So even if there were 5 people in the park, those 3-4 Resort trains are still cycling. Usually it takes around 2 hours for the park to clear after closing. So that saves about an hour each night, and the Resort trains can have a little more time for maintenance.

I'm not saying its the BEST solution, but it will help the trains in my opinion. Nothing would make me more happy than to hear "J/K everyone, we're buying a new set of trains!" But I don't think that will happen soon

12 should be done soon, which will help.