Monorails to no longer operate during Evening Extra Magic Hours

[sshindel]

People keep ignoring another point that has been up on here again and again, but there is more to maintenance than just the trains themselves. The track too is a concern. If, by doing this, they are adding an extra year or two to the life of the monorail track before they have to completely renovate this, it might work out to push off a major overhaul until they are in a better position to absorb the cost / downtime / etc than they are right now.

Again, this change does not affect me. I've never stayed Deluxe, I've always had to do crazy things like take multiple busses to/from dining reservations late at night at the monorail stations, and the boats are my favorite way to enter the MK, so I guess I'm not ready to burn Disney at the stake here for this decision, even if it is strictly monetary in nature.

 

[Uncle Lupe]

Another no-confidence vote? How did that turn out last time? Not so good, as I remember. You kicked out the guy that saved the company for Iger. Can't imagine who would be next.

Sounded good on Star Wars.

You just have to roll the dice sometimes.

 

[Victor Kelly]

I guess the other guests at value resorts mean less to the Deluxe resort guests. I guess there is a class system even on the internet. So just because we stay at POP, we should not be allowed monorail transit to TTC or to a Deluxe for dining reservations? Nice real nice.

 

[peachykeen]

This change was begged for by hourly Cast Members in the department who used to have deep pride in their role, but have since become embarassed by the train's lack of reliability. Several Cast wrote multi-page emails to the VP of transportation and his superiors outlining the issues that the Monorails were having (basically everything that is brought up on all the other threads about Monorails being unreliable) and it was a huge victory in the Cast's eyes to see their opinions being heard and to have them agree to shorten the operating time in order to get the trains worked on properly. I know many of you don't believe it, but this IS about helping to keep the trains maintained. This is not about "jipping" the customer as so many of you here think. I work closely with the people who had to help make this decision, a lot closer than probably anyone in this thread. It was a tough decision, but they don't have the money to spend on new trains yet. Transportation is referred to as the "red-headed stepchild" department, even by its leaders. Even if Disney THE COMPANY has the money to buy the Monorails, Disney TRANSPORT does not get a big share. So Disney Transport had to make the tough call to cut hours to keep the trains maintained.

One of the Monorail managers I talked to recently summed it up great by saying "They are spending all this money on the Fantasyland expansion, but how do they think people are going to get there if the Monorails can't run?"

I guess it is just disheartening to see people emailing and calling in to change a decision that was fought for so hard by the hourly cast who are embarassed to always have to stand at the bottom of the ramp and direct Guests to watercraft or buses and know that the trains don't have time to be maintained properly. They didn't fight for this change so they could get "shorter days" or work less. The hourly cast got together and fought for it so that the trains could be fixed, and the Guests could be transported quickly and reliably on a system that they love.

Sorry, rant over.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

This change was begged for by hourly Cast Members in the department who used to have deep pride in their role, but have since become embarassed by the train's lack of reliability. Several Cast wrote multi-page emails to the VP of transportation and his superiors outlining the issues that the Monorails were having (basically everything that is brought up on all the other threads about Monorails being unreliable) and it was a huge victory in the Cast's eyes to see their opinions being heard and to have them agree to shorten the operating time in order to get the trains worked on properly. I know many of you don't believe it, but this IS about helping to keep the trains maintained. This is not about "jipping" the customer as so many of you here think. I work closely with the people who had to help make this decision, a lot closer than probably anyone in this thread. It was a tough decision, but they don't have the money to spend on new trains yet. Transportation is referred to as the "red-headed stepchild" department, even by its leaders. Even if Disney THE COMPANY has the money to buy the Monorails, Disney TRANSPORT does not get a big share. So Disney Transport had to make the tough call to cut hours to keep the trains maintained.

One of the Monorail managers I talked to recently summed it up great by saying "They are spending all this money on the Fantasyland expansion, but how do they think people are going to get there if the Monorails can't run?"

I guess it is just disheartening to see people emailing and calling in to change a decision that was fought for so hard by the hourly cast who are embarassed to always have to stand at the bottom of the ramp and direct Guests to watercraft or buses and know that the trains don't have time to be maintained properly. They didn't fight for this change so they could get "shorter days" or work less. The hourly cast got together and fought for it so that the trains could be fixed, and the Guests could be transported quickly and reliably on a system that they love.

Sorry, rant over.

If this is true, then why is Steve reporting this is a permanent change, and not just a change needed till the trains are back up to par??

 

[flavious27]

This is just going to overload the buses and ferries even more and hike up the diesel costs that disney transportation spends. The monorail takes up a decent chunk of the transportation and helps to give guests options on how to navigate around epcot and mk. I wonder how much pushback disney is going to have with the deluxe hotel guests, we have been told that part of their cost is with them being on a monorail line.

 

[flavious27]

This change was begged for by hourly Cast Members in the department who used to have deep pride in their role, but have since become embarassed by the train's lack of reliability. Several Cast wrote multi-page emails to the VP of transportation and his superiors outlining the issues that the Monorails were having (basically everything that is brought up on all the other threads about Monorails being unreliable) and it was a huge victory in the Cast's eyes to see their opinions being heard and to have them agree to shorten the operating time in order to get the trains worked on properly. I know many of you don't believe it, but this IS about helping to keep the trains maintained. This is not about "jipping" the customer as so many of you here think. I work closely with the people who had to help make this decision, a lot closer than probably anyone in this thread. It was a tough decision, but they don't have the money to spend on new trains yet. Transportation is referred to as the "red-headed stepchild" department, even by its leaders. Even if Disney THE COMPANY has the money to buy the Monorails, Disney TRANSPORT does not get a big share. So Disney Transport had to make the tough call to cut hours to keep the trains maintained.

One of the Monorail managers I talked to recently summed it up great by saying "They are spending all this money on the Fantasyland expansion, but how do they think people are going to get there if the Monorails can't run?"

I guess it is just disheartening to see people emailing and calling in to change a decision that was fought for so hard by the hourly cast who are embarassed to always have to stand at the bottom of the ramp and direct Guests to watercraft or buses and know that the trains don't have time to be maintained properly. They didn't fight for this change so they could get "shorter days" or work less. The hourly cast got together and fought for it so that the trains could be fixed, and the Guests could be transported quickly and reliably on a system that they love.

Sorry, rant over.

The parks division made 400 million in profit in the first quarter, they have the money to maintain and or replace the mark vi's..

 

[flynnibus]

People keep ignoring another point that has been up on here again and again, but there is more to maintenance than just the trains themselves. The track too is a concern. If, by doing this, they are adding an extra year or two to the life of the monorail track before they have to completely renovate this, it might work out to push off a major overhaul until they are in a better position to absorb the cost / downtime / etc than they are right now.

This 'they are spending in FLE stuff is an excuse to not spend more money - not that they can't spend money. Capital expenditures like this are amortized over decades and funded by long term debt - not 'whats in the kitty this month'. The reason the company doesn't do it is to ensure their balance sheet looks the way they want it to - not because they can't. It's a CHOICE - not a constraint.

This change was begged for by hourly Cast Members in the department who used to have deep pride in their role, but have since become embarassed by the train's lack of reliability. Several Cast wrote multi-page emails to the VP of transportation and his superiors outlining the issues that the Monorails were having (basically everything that is brought up on all the other threads about Monorails being unreliable) and it was a huge victory in the Cast's eyes to see their opinions being heard and to have them agree to shorten the operating time in order to get the trains worked on properly

Yes, but there are other ways of shortening operating time then taking them away all together isn't there? Or how about ramping up maintenance to do more with the available time windows. Parking your car may make it last longer in time, but the only way to make your car more reliable to is actually invest in doing the repairs. If your car breaks down more often, do you just drive it less? Or find a way to fix it more often?

It was a tough decision, but they don't have the money to spend on new trains yet. Transportation is referred to as the "red-headed stepchild" department, even by its leaders. Even if Disney THE COMPANY has the money to buy the Monorails, Disney TRANSPORT does not get a big share. So Disney Transport had to make the tough call to cut hours to keep the trains maintained.

No one is chasing Disney Transport here - it's the overall operation. They are the ones who have created the situation on both ends. Invest in more vehicles, invest in more shifts, invest in better efficencies... there are lots of things they can do before reducing services because they can't keep up. Reducing services is what you do when you don't control the game (what Transport must do) but P&R controls both ends of this spectrum and reducing services because they won't invest elsewhere is on their heads.

Even if they only went to Bombardier, when the current fleet was built they were essentially one-offs with start-up costs, etc. Bombardier is building monorails for cities around the globe, and is even building a new monorail test track. New WDW trainsets would essentially be "semi-custom" and not need as much development as they did in the 80s.

Except Disney already has infrastructure and design constraints that may not match the 'new' standard stuff being built. They would need stuff built to their infrastructure capabilities - or risk having to make extensive modifications to make the new stuff fit. From platform issues, clearances, loading, etc. A monorail does not equal all other monorails unfortunately.

 

[peachykeen]

If this is true, then why is Steve reporting this is a permanent change, and not just a change needed till the trains are back up to par??

It is permanent as far as the forseeable future is concerned. The department really needs to get its act together (trust me, I am not WDW fanboy who thinks they do nothing wrong), but to me this was the right decision.

Once they start to see the trains becoming more reliable, causing less downtimes, etc. then I am sure they will start to reconsider lengthening their operating hours again.

And again, it was an idea that was formulated by hourly, front line Monorail CMs who frankly had a lot of you-know-whats to email not just their Guest Service Managers, not just the Area Manager, not just the VP of Transportation, but all the way up to Jim Vendor (and it was not an anonymous email btw, they all put their names on it.) It wasn't a boardroom full of executives in suits rubbing their hands together with money signs in their eyes thinking "What ELSE can we take away from the Guests" (and trust me, I know a lot has been taken away as of late.)

 

[AMartin767]

This change was begged for by hourly Cast Members in the department who used to have deep pride in their role, but have since become embarassed by the train's lack of reliability. Several Cast wrote multi-page emails to the VP of transportation and his superiors outlining the issues that the Monorails were having (basically everything that is brought up on all the other threads about Monorails being unreliable) and it was a huge victory in the Cast's eyes to see their opinions being heard and to have them agree to shorten the operating time in order to get the trains worked on properly. I know many of you don't believe it, but this IS about helping to keep the trains maintained. This is not about "jipping" the customer as so many of you here think. I work closely with the people who had to help make this decision, a lot closer than probably anyone in this thread. It was a tough decision, but they don't have the money to spend on new trains yet. Transportation is referred to as the "red-headed stepchild" department, even by its leaders. Even if Disney THE COMPANY has the money to buy the Monorails, Disney TRANSPORT does not get a big share. So Disney Transport had to make the tough call to cut hours to keep the trains maintained.

One of the Monorail managers I talked to recently summed it up great by saying "They are spending all this money on the Fantasyland expansion, but how do they think people are going to get there if the Monorails can't run?"

I guess it is just disheartening to see people emailing and calling in to change a decision that was fought for so hard by the hourly cast who are embarassed to always have to stand at the bottom of the ramp and direct Guests to watercraft or buses and know that the trains don't have time to be maintained properly. They didn't fight for this change so they could get "shorter days" or work less. The hourly cast got together and fought for it so that the trains could be fixed, and the Guests could be transported quickly and reliably on a system that they love.

Sorry, rant over.

I am truly sorry if cast members felt embarrassed for the lack of consistency and reliability with the system but I do not feel, as a guest, that the decision made was the best option. The issue is with the lack of providing the service for a guest who has paid for the service. For example, why not shut down the line during EMH then bring it back online with fewer trains at the end of EMH to handle the extra capacity. This means the trains would be off-line during the time of least use (after closing has cleared out everyone and EMH has not ended yet). The boats and buses could handle the lower volume of people arriving or leaving in those in-between hours. This would allow more time for the trains to receive the obvious TLC that they need.

If the front-line cast members really wanted this change because of the constant breakdowns then their letters to management should have lead to management making a more logical change. If that means more money budgeted to Transport to buy new trains then that is management's job. That's why they are called "Managers". If we apply the same solution to attractions that break down in the parks then, when the Haunted Mansion suffers multiple breakdowns due to maintenance, the management decides, "Ok, well, let's not have it running during EMH so it can get the maintenance it needs" vs. "Let's do a proper refurbishment to this attraction and make it viable for the park so it can operate as needed" which is thankfully what they have done.

I mean no disrespect Peachykeen and I do realize that there are many factors behind this decision but it all comes across as Disney lacking the desire to put the investment into new trains. If that is what is needed then the company should find the money (not a hard task I would think) and upgrade the fleet. I also realize that there is more to this than just the trains. There are untold other system related issues that have to be maintained for the monorail fleet to operate. I still do not feel that making a permanent change to providing service during a functioning park event is the best solution.

 

[828tnt]

I'll grow another (rather silly) idea out there that may get some attention. For those staying at poly, we will all wait and walk back together! Surely a few hundred people walking on the road may gather attention every night? (sarcasm included for those who may not understand)

 

[Zac Skellington]

This change was begged for by hourly Cast Members in the department who used to have deep pride in their role, but have since become embarassed by the train's lack of reliability. Several Cast wrote multi-page emails to the VP of transportation and his superiors outlining the issues that the Monorails were having (basically everything that is brought up on all the other threads about Monorails being unreliable) and it was a huge victory in the Cast's eyes to see their opinions being heard and to have them agree to shorten the operating time in order to get the trains worked on properly. I know many of you don't believe it, but this IS about helping to keep the trains maintained. This is not about "jipping" the customer as so many of you here think. I work closely with the people who had to help make this decision, a lot closer than probably anyone in this thread. It was a tough decision, but they don't have the money to spend on new trains yet. Transportation is referred to as the "red-headed stepchild" department, even by its leaders. Even if Disney THE COMPANY has the money to buy the Monorails, Disney TRANSPORT does not get a big share. So Disney Transport had to make the tough call to cut hours to keep the trains maintained.

One of the Monorail managers I talked to recently summed it up great by saying "They are spending all this money on the Fantasyland expansion, but how do they think people are going to get there if the Monorails can't run?"

I guess it is just disheartening to see people emailing and calling in to change a decision that was fought for so hard by the hourly cast who are embarassed to always have to stand at the bottom of the ramp and direct Guests to watercraft or buses and know that the trains don't have time to be maintained properly. They didn't fight for this change so they could get "shorter days" or work less. The hourly cast got together and fought for it so that the trains could be fixed, and the Guests could be transported quickly and reliably on a system that they love.

Sorry, rant over.

We understand the CMs concerns. We're mad that guest satisfaction is taking a backseat, because a proper maintenance schedule/budget is not a nessacary cost in the eyes of management.

 

[loboftbl]

I just returned from a visit (May 2011) and I am already planning a return visit. I stayed at CBR and was very disappointed in the bus service to the parks(my opinion). Up until yesterday I was planning on staying at Contemp or Poly for the monorail service to the parks during their entire operating hours. I dont know where I will be staying on my next visit but I am cutting the number of days down.

Everyone on here seems to be pretty informed (diehard Disney) and can express their opinions pretty clearly. What about the other visitors that do not get on the forums(like my wife)? This is only one opinion but she has noticed this "Declining" service at Disney and wants to cut days off of our next trip and use them at other places.

It used to be Disney stood above the rest of the other parks around the county. Previous trips I intended to purchase Dining plan but when the price raised more credits and cut tip I was out. During May 2011 the non working items of Splash Mountain, broken Yeti..... I am affraid next time I go what service did I expect will be removed to save a few bucks?

 

[draybook]

For all of the financial wizards in this thread, how many times have you sent your resume in to Disney? I'm amazed at how quick people are to become a financial genius when a company does something they don't like or agree with. How many people here are heading a company that employs 50k-60k people? It's easy to say what they should be doing, especially when you don't know all of the numbers and facts.


And for those who are going to "show them" by not going, please follow through on that. That means less people for me to wait behind when I go.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

As has been normal with the monorail operations, it will probably still run one hour after the latest park closing on the line. So even if the EMH hours at the MK start at 8, I don't see the Monorail shutting down before 10 to get the regular day guest out of Epcot.

That may be true, but until now, it has also been the policy to keep the monorails operating during EMH.

safety over courtesy

Safety, Courtesy, Show, Efficiency. So this has been unsafe all these years running the monorails all day?

This is probably as close as we will ever get to an outright acknowledgement by Disney that the monorails need to be replaced. If this really is a permanent change with no replacement on the horizon, then that is very sad.

 

[Thrill]

For all of the financial wizards in this thread, how many times have you sent your resume in to Disney? I'm amazed at how quick people are to become a financial genius when a company does something they don't like or agree with. How many people here are heading a company that employs 50k-60k people? It's easy to say what they should be doing, especially when you don't know all of the numbers and facts.

It doesn't take all that much to realize that Disney has worked perfectly fine on lower prices and higher quality, and rising prices should never coincide with declining quality, as a consumer, especially considering that attendance has been fairly flat despite the economic troubles.

I'm not a financial genius, I'm just a customer. I acknowledge that Disney can't give us a perfect product and a low price, but we're getting neither right now. Especially at the monorail resorts. And that's not what Disney is supposed to stand for. Disney is supposed to be a top quality product.

 

[Kamikaze]

Sounded good on Star Wars.

You just have to roll the dice sometimes.

And when the Eisner removal came up snake eyes, why do you think double or nothing would improve the situation?

 

[misterID]

For all of the financial wizards in this thread, how many times have you sent your resume in to Disney? I'm amazed at how quick people are to become a financial genius when a company does something they don't like or agree with. How many people here are heading a company that employs 50k-60k people? It's easy to say what they should be doing, especially when you don't know all of the numbers and facts.


And for those who are going to "show them" by not going, please follow through on that. That means less people for me to wait behind when I go.

If we went by this logic, no one could voice any opinion about anything outside their own bank account.

Again, I don't doubt they're making the right decision if the Monorails are really in that bad of shape. Thing is, a resolution to this issue should have been started AT LEAST 10 years ago.

 

[loboftbl]

For all of the financial wizards in this thread, how many times have you sent your resume in to Disney? I'm amazed at how quick people are to become a financial genius when a company does something they don't like or agree with. How many people here are heading a company that employs 50k-60k people? It's easy to say what they should be doing, especially when you don't know all of the numbers and facts.


And for those who are going to "show them" by not going, please follow through on that. That means less people for me to wait behind when I go.

Hey, now you are talking about one of my favorite hobbies/minors from college. Publicly listed companies(ie Disney) do almost everything to inflate stock price. Why you ask? Because unhappy investors(low stock price) means firings at the top(CEO's). How do you keep stock price up/ going up? Maintain profit or grow it. This is problematic in the current economy. What happens when profit declines(ie. recent drop or non growth of attendance)? Have to maintain that profit so you cut costs(layoffs/cut in service/raise in price). Not to hard to connect the dots on what is happening. Yeah Disney has money but what happens to the stock price if you hit it with a bunch of charges?

Of note, I would guess a large portion of people on here are unaware of the companies they own stock in(possibly disney) due to the investment funds they are apart of. When you see your retirement investment go down, you care about stock price.

 

[HouCuseChickie]

A little late joining this thread, but disappointed nonetheless. We're staying at the Contemporary next month and I did it partly b/c of the monorail service! MK has 2am EMH our first night and EMH at Epcot on night 3 that we're attending. Even with my 35% off discount, my room is now feeling like a rip off!