Monorail Update January 2015

[nace888]

You're not the only person who has ever worked in the service industry. It's not some insurmountable goal, especially since it's a goal a smaller Disney set.

That's true, I'm just stating, that sometimes things end up beyond repair, no matter how much we try, XD

 

[lazyboy97o]

That's true, I'm just stating, that sometimes things end up beyond repair, no matter how much we try, XD

All I get from your post is that you have problem in your leadership structure. Somebody ultimately doesn't care. That's what we're seeing with the monorails. There is a poor somewhere in the system that has broken. Where someone is asking form he right resources and being told "NO!"

 

[articos]

Thanks I was actually speaking of the WDW transportation co(Yknow, $.25 of this ticket goes to fund the monorails)?
At some point they used to hold their own capital reserves etc. then it collapsed into WDW Company and they became overhead

Ooooh...I don't know offhand. I'll see if I can find out. The .cent charge was part of the budget, but the company propped up the funds that were used specifically for transportation, of course. The ".25 of this ticket goes to" was part marketing, part accounting and part legal.

Just to get your opinion, what would be more courteous? Stopping guests at the top of the ramp so that a train could dispatch, or waiting until all guests that could fit are on the train? This is after the train has been in the station for about 2 minutes.

You asked BrerJon, but I'm gonna put my 2 cents in...definitely stopping guests at the top of the ramp, as it allows for keeping a handle on what's going on on the platform. Allowing all guests who can fit allows the trains to get overcrowded when busy, which is poor show, or holds the trains too long when not busy as you wait for people too long, which is poor efficiency and poor show. If you keep them on the ramp, you give the appearance of an orderly system and keeping people queued, which makes for better everything. But I also think you balance the need for longer stops at the station if needed (around the entire beam) vs having dirty trains, ill-maintained trains or station chaos.

 

[articos]

I don't really understand the question, but here's how I think it should work.

Train comes in, guests get off. A couple of CMs walk up the platform inspecting the carriages for litter and obvious Code-Vs etc., then the gates open and the guests get on, with the amount of guests limited by the CM at the top of the ramp. At the end of the night, the train goes home to the barn where a custodial team gives it a thorough clean before the next day.

Would it mean longer waits and fewer trains? Probably. So what? What would you prefer to ride, Splash Mountain with a ten minute wait but all the animatronics broken, or Splash Mountain with a fifteen minute wait but everything working? I bet guest satisfaction would be much higher with a pristine but less frequent service than it is now.

I know you say it can't be done because CMs can't go on the platform etc., there's no money for cleaning and all that, but if that's the case Disney need to change the rules, train the staff better, and invest more into the system, because they sure managed it fine for the first twenty years of the resort's operation.

This is how it used to work, more or less, and I agree with all of the above.

 

[Figment2005]

Ooooh...I don't know offhand. I'll see if I can find out. The .cent charge was part of the budget, but the company propped up the funds that were used specifically for transportation, of course. The ".25 of this ticket goes to" was part marketing, part accounting and part legal.


You asked BrerJon, but I'm gonna put my 2 cents in...definitely stopping guests at the top of the ramp, as it allows for keeping a handle on what's going on on the platform. Allowing all guests who can fit allows the trains to get overcrowded when busy, which is poor show, or holds the trains too long when not busy as you wait for people too long, which is poor efficiency and poor show. If you keep them on the ramp, you give the appearance of an orderly system and keeping people queued, which makes for better everything. But I also think you balance the need for longer stops at the station if needed (around the entire beam) vs having dirty trains, ill-maintained trains or station chaos.

That's pretty much all I was going for. I just wanted an idea on how a guest would percieve that situation. So many times I've seen cast get yelled at by a guest because they didn't hold the train for them as they were running up the ramp.

 

[articos]

That's pretty much all I was going for. I just wanted an idea on how a guest would percieve that situation. So many times I've seen cast get yelled at by a guest because they didn't hold the train for them as they were running up the ramp.

That's always happened, and there's no way around it. It's just human nature to be annoyed when that happens in any circumstance. The thought process when planning the monorail was people wouldn't mind waiting 5-10 minutes, the cast would engage the guests and keep them occupied, and as long as there was always another monorail coming in a few minutes, the momentary annoyance the guest perceives as they miss that first train would be erased as soon as the next train arrived. Unfortunately, one of the hazards of a job with monorails is fielding those guests who yell when they miss that one train, but it should be a very momentary annoyance. The answer is always, I'm sorry, we can't hold the trains, but there's another one 5 minutes away! That's also one of the reasons there's never been a published schedule for the trains - if you don't have a schedule, it's always that "there will be another train momentarily, how's your trip been so far? (smile!)" In this case, the guest is not always right, but there's a way to try to turn the situation around. If you can't turn it, then it's their problem, not yours and you just have to smile and move on.

 

[lazyboy97o]

That's always happened, and there's no way around it. It's just human nature to be annoyed when that happens in any circumstance. The thought process when planning the monorail was people wouldn't mind waiting 5-10 minutes, the cast would engage the guests and keep them occupied, and as long as there was always another monorail coming in a few minutes, the momentary annoyance the guest perceives as they miss that first train would be erased as soon as the next train arrived. Unfortunately, one of the hazards of a job with monorails is fielding those guests who yell when they miss that one train, but it should be a very momentary annoyance. The answer is always, I'm sorry, we can't hold the trains, but there's another one 5 minutes away! That's also one of the reasons there's never been a published schedule for the trains - if you don't have a schedule, it's always that "there will be another train momentarily, how's your trip been so far? (smile!)" In this case, the guest is not always right, but there's a way to try to turn the situation around. If you can't turn it, then it's their problem, not yours and you just have to smile and move on.

Studies looking at mass transit systems back up Disney's original thinking. That good will generated by predictable, timely service then manifests itself in better treatment of facilities. This commitment has to apply to the whole system, meaning the buses and boats need to have shorter, more predictable intervals as well. Disney though has compounded the problem by giving in to so many outlandish demands elsewhere.

 

[articos]

Thanks I was actually speaking of the WDW transportation co(Yknow, $.25 of this ticket goes to fund the monorails)?
At some point they used to hold their own capital reserves etc. then it collapsed into WDW Company and they became overhead

Alright, I just did some digging to see what the specifics were. The answer is a bit complex: there has always been a transportation budget for the various conveyances, but managed very differently through the years. But let's go back a bit farther. In the early 60s, Walt and Roy were talking about how to improve communities of the future, which was where the seeds of EPCOT started. Walt Disney Productions had a bunch of different divisions, and in the mid 60s, one of the ideas from Imagineering and Walt and Roy was to try to sell communities on better transportation systems, which could be - of course - built and sold by Disney. In 1974, a division of WDP was created to market and sell those transportation systems to cities, namely WEDway's and Monorails. That division was called Community Transportation Systems, fully owned by WDP. CTS's only project ended up being the Houston Intercontinental Airport's WEDway PeopleMover, sadly. The plan was to use them in cities around the world, along with the rest of the WDW property, including EPCOT, but none of this came to pass.

Now, the monorails and trains in the parks were licensed by Retlaw, which is a different company, but also owned by the Disney's. Disney the company paid Retlaw fees towards the monorails. Disney the company also had a transportation budget that was allocated towards monorails, ferryboats and other transportation needs. Those budgets were more than enough to cover what needed to be covered.

In 1981, CTS, while finishing installation in Houston, was renamed WED Transportation Systems. In late 1981, they folded WED Transportation systems into the corporate structure as part of the same deal that moved licensing and ownership of certain IP and the track-based attractions from Retlaw to Disney. That's when you start to see the language of ".25 of this ticket goes towards WED Transportation/transportation" on the tickets. Prior, Disney had sold separate transportation tickets folded in as part of the entry books or resort stays through the 70s (with a portion of the ticket book price supporting transport), then there was short period of no mention of transportation aside from needing a hand stamp to utilize transportation if you were leaving the park, prior to the fee language appearing in '81. The language was on the tickets through the mid 90s when the ticket media changed over again.

I don't know when the transportation budgets were re-aligned, but I suspect it was in the early to mid 90s also as part of the management changes during the time, independent of the language being removed from the ticket media. I believe WED Transportation Systems still exists today as a corporate entity, though separate from the parks. So the answer is the fact that language was there is somewhat misleading in that it was not specific to funding the monorails, it was used as a vehicle for budgets that existing before and after it was involved with the monorails.

*Edit: added more info after posting, further information regarding the transfer of WED Transportation assets to Bombardier below, with h/t to @lazyboy97o .

 

[lazyboy97o]

Alright, I just did some digging to see what the specifics were. The answer is a bit complex: there has always been a transportation budget for the various conveyances, but managed very differently through the years. But let's go back a bit farther. In the early 60s, Walt and Roy were talking about how to improve communities of the future, which was where the seeds of EPCOT started. Walt Disney Productions had a bunch of different divisions, and in the mid 60s, one of the ideas from Imagineering and Walt and Roy was to try to sell communities on better transportation systems, which could be - of course - built and sold by Disney. In 1974, a division of WDP was created to market and sell those transportation systems to cities, namely WEDway's and Monorails. That division was called Community Transportation Systems, fully owned by WDP. CTS's only project ended up being the Houston Intercontinental Airport's WEDway PeopleMover, sadly. The plan was to use them in cities around the world, along with the rest of the WDW property, including EPCOT, but none of this came to pass.

Now, the monorails and trains in the parks were licensed by Retlaw, which is a different company, but also owned by the Disney's. Disney the company paid Retlaw fees towards the monorails. Disney the company also had a transportation budget that was allocated towards monorails, ferryboats and other transportation needs. Those budgets were more than enough to cover what needed to be covered.

In 1981, CTS, while finishing installation in Houston, was renamed WED Transportation Systems. In late 1981, they folded WED Transportation systems into the corporate structure as part of the same deal that moved licensing and ownership of certain IP and the track-based attractions from Retlaw to Disney. That's when you start to see the language of ".25 of this ticket goes towards transportation" on the tickets. Prior, Disney had sold separate transportation tickets folded in as part of the entry books or resort stays through the 70s (with a portion of the ticket book price supporting transport), then there was short period of no mention of transportation aside from needing a hand stamp to utilize transportation if you were leaving the park, prior to the fee language appearing in '81. The language was on the tickets through the mid 90s when the ticket media changed over again.

I don't know when the transportation budgets were re-aligned, but I suspect it was in the early to mid 90s also as part of the management changes during the time, independent of the language being removed from the ticket media. I believe WED Transportation Systems still exists today as a corporate entity, though.

WED Transportation Systems (or at least everything that made it any sort of a viable operation) was sold to Bombardier and became the basis of their current people mover and monorail offerings.

 

[articos]

WED Transportation Systems (or at least everything that made it any sort of a viable operation) was sold to Bombardier and became the basis of their current people mover and monorail offerings.

Yup. In 1984, Bom bought pretty much everything but the name, including hiring Disney's VP of WED Trans, and reincorporated it all under a subsidiary called "The Transportation Group". Disney kept the entity titled WED Transportation Systems, though.

If you look at the wording on the old tickets, it changed in '84 to read that money was going towards "transportation" rather than going to "WED Transportation Systems".

 

[WDW1974]

OK, I'm lazy so I'll just say that I pretty much agree with every word (on this thread) that @articos and @lazyboy97o are posting and move on ...I just love the monorails and flat out hate how they have been abused and neglected by George Kalogridis, Meg Crofton and WDW's 'Executive Management Team' and almost every exec that has had oversight off them for the last 15 plus years.

 

[Monorail Lime]

The problem with the monorail conditions is simply that Bombardier probably no longer makes parts to properly service/refresh them. Disney and Bombardier probably have a contract in place that the latter is to provide (at least certain) parts for X number of years after delivery. For the few trains that Disney runs, I'm sure there isn't a warehouse full of every conceivable part. That's not to say that Disney couldn't commission a new batch of Part X, but it's an expensive proposition. In the long run, if there are new trains in the not too distant future... What Disney is doing right now is buying time without investing unnecessarily. Either that - or they're just being cheap with a "good enough" attitude. It wouldn't be the first time.

The relationship with Bombardier is not part of the equation. Disney retains the full schematics for the trains and can fabricate any part they need in-house or through a third-party contractor, and over the years they have become quite good at this. A recent case in point is the relatively quick turnaround on the all new cabs for Monorail Peach.

 

[gmajew]

Total BS. They aren't used 24 hours a day. Work can be done both after hours in the shop ... or during the day both a train at a time for major cleaning work, or simply having CMs assigned at stations for regular stuff like tossing out the water and Coke bottles that are always left behind. etc.

It's not hard if you care about doing it. IF YOU CARE!

FYI I am not talking about what can be done during the night when they are not in use!! Talking about keeping them clean all day long! People who think differently have never ran or managed any type of restaurant. I have been the CEO of a major restaurant chain trust me it is not the same animal!

 

[gmajew]

What isn't possible?

When is a the cars not have people in it during the day to clean them during peak season? It is not like an airline where the entire plane is empty after every run to be cleaned and refresh.

Guest would be more upset seeing the train stop for 15 min for cleaning in front of them and during peak season can they pull trains easily on and off tracks to be cleaned?

 

[BoarderPhreak]

The relationship with Bombardier is not part of the equation. Disney retains the full schematics for the trains and can fabricate any part they need in-house or through a third-party contractor, and over the years they have become quite good at this. A recent case in point is the relatively quick turnaround on the all new cabs for Monorail Peach.

I have the full schematics for my car too. Doesn't mean I'm going to build myself a new quarter panel in the basement. All these parts require raw materials, special machinery and tooling to be set up. To do so for a single, or even a handful of parts is astronomically expensive. More likely some, if not all parts - were already on-hand. At the very least it was subcontracted, whether to Bombardier or someone else.

 

[NormC]

Bottom line: There is only one reason the monorails are in the condition they are in: Management.
If management wanted them clean they would be cleaned.
If management wanted them to be repaired they would be repaired.
Simple.

The CMs can only do their best in the framework provided to them. Could some CMs go above and beyond? Sure and some probably do.
When management finally decides to solve the problems they will. It is not like they do not know about them.

If I was in charge I would see to it that every train that is in use gets thoroughly cleaned every night either in the barn or at the station where it is parked. All repairs would be done as needed and not saved up until the whole train is taken offline to be overhauled. The exteriors would get cleaned at least weekly and any time there is a stain or scuff bigger than my hand.

 

[lazyboy97o]

When is a the cars not have people in it during the day to clean them during peak season? It is not like an airline where the entire plane is empty after every run to be cleaned and refresh.

Guest would be more upset seeing the train stop for 15 min for cleaning in front of them and during peak season can they pull trains easily on and off tracks to be cleaned?

It doesn't take 15 minutes to walk in behind departing guests and grab and trash left behind.

 

[Lord_Vader]

Sorry to say I can't agree with that. The monorails do not provide great service - far from it.

I've been counting, and in my last 10 trips to Magic Kingdom in 2015, I've only been able to board the monorail twice. 8 times it has been closed. I am just greeted at the TTC by a monorail CM just shouting to guests "we're down, take the ferry". Great service? Nope.

Besides the previously mentioned interior trim condition and appalling reliability, the monorails are overcrowded, have poor HVAC, poor onboard audio, and are just not enjoyable to ride. Sadly, the articulated busses are more enjoyable to ride from the TTC to the MK. At least they smell OK, have decent AC, and don't constantly breakdown.

Outside of the actual monorails, the TTC is in terrible condition, as is the beam (outside of Epcot) - it's embarrassing. The Epcot station isn't much better.

So for me, the monorails fail in every category that I can judge them on - condition and service. The entire system just screams neglect and years of lack of investment.

And again, I am not aiming this at the daily cast, my complaint is with the management of Disney, at whatever level that is, that has neglected the monorail system to this extent for the last 20 years.

We spend a lot of time in WDW, most years 3 to 4 weeks and only on rare occasions is the monorail completely down. Only once during our trip last summer was the system down which is a huge problem for us as the Frienship boats do not accept wheelchairs.

As for their condition, the AC system is terrible depending on car and the carpet was badly worn but thankful it looks like they are upgrading the interiors to some degree.

 

[erwinalber4]

Just a thought regarding cleaning during the day, what if they had a custodial cast member or two clean while the monorail is in motion during off peak hours. For example, when loading at TTC for Express have one gate closed and clean between TTC and MK. At MK, have the next gate closed and the CM simply moves to the next section. This would accomplish a good mid-day clean without causing the Monorails to be in the station too long and depending on the number of CMs could be done in just a few rounds.

 

[Tom]

Just a thought regarding cleaning during the day, what if they had a custodial cast member or two clean while the monorail is in motion during off peak hours. For example, when loading at TTC for Express have one gate closed and clean between TTC and MK. At MK, have the next gate closed and the CM simply moves to the next section. This would accomplish a good mid-day clean without causing the Monorails to be in the station too long and depending on the number of CMs could be done in just a few rounds.

This is one of many good ideas, and ways they could EASILY keep the trains clean on an ongoing basis.

If they know they're going to be holding at a station for a few minutes, open one side's doors and let people off, but keep the "boarding" doors closed and let CMs run in and just pick up....maybe wipe up recent spills. Sure, not every guest will be off, but if they do this at stations like MK or TTC, the majority of guests will disembark.

Or, just before they put one away, have everyone working the last platform run into a car and do the same thing. In 2 minutes, they can pick up ALL the trash and wipe up minor spills.

The possibilities are endless, but they chose not to do it.