Monorail Update January 2015

[asianway]

Exactly this. You cannot look at Walt Disney World as a single sharing entity. Each department from food service, hotels, transportation, attractions are all separate entities, and each of those is divided even further into more specific parts. For example, Food Service is divided into ODF(outdoor foods), quick service, table service, catering, etc. and each of those has their own budget that is completely separate from the others. Disney is the root of the tree, and the departments are the branches. The branches rarely cross and all must share the nutrients supplied by the roots.

Maybe if you leaders actually led and acted rather than fill their teams heads with nonsense babble things could change. Apparently brain washing is easier

 

[asianway]

So true, MAGICal Steve. Common sense, but still true!

I get so ill when I hear people ... alleged fans ... making excuses for things like the ghetto-like shape of the monorails because I'd say for WDW's first quarter century plus, they had no trouble keeping them almost like new daily. Now, they are filthy, reek, are falling apart and do give pause as to how safe they actually may be.

If Disney in the 70s-90s, could keep them like new, then today's Disney, one that makes record profits quarterly and costs multiples of what it did in the past to gain admission can to.

They don't want to.

And fans who make excuses for them certainly don't help the matter at all.

Tokyo monorails are 15 years old and look like brand new. You know why? They hold themselves to the 1978 standards

 

[WDW1974]

But the difference is the area is always staffed by cast to keep an eye on it. With the trains, if a cast member misses an item or a guest hides an item, they have 3-20 minutes of no cast observation to prevent them from breaking the rule.

Guests have been pigs since the days of Walt. Really.

The fact WDW is now charging astronomical prices may result in a slight uptick in piggery (is that a word?), but Disney needs to have CMs pay attention. Like looking inside train cabs at each and every stop -- no, it wouldn't actually slow down the system IF you had an extra CM (making what? a huge $10 an hour salary if lucky?) at each station whose job was to do just that.

Of course, I am an old fart and I recall when Disney had far more transport CMs overall. People today are conditioned to showing up to a boat dock and there being no CMs, but it didn't use to be that way. Not by a long shot.

But Disney's MBAs and consultants felt that HUGE labor cost simply wasn't needed, so now (actually I think this happened over a decade ago, maybe even 15 years now) you have guests conditioned to stand at empty docks wondering when the next boat will show.

 

[WDW1974]

Having tried something similar on the Disney Blog (I mentioned the blurry face of Buzz Lightyear and other similarly projected animatronics one time), you will be edited out. What they want is happy-happy, joy-joy.

If you can work the words, "love WDW," and "...so magical!!" in then you'll get posted. If you say anything negative, in the least, you'll be edited out.

You could simply email Jennifer.J.Fickley@disney.com and ask why your comments are not only not being answered, but being censored. She loves fans, ya know!

 

[WDW1974]

Steve - it is a different animal. Can it be done yes but it is not like a QSR establishment when people get up and a cast member has the opportunity to wipe down the table and clean up a mess. These trains are in service the entire day. To do what needs to be done each train would need to be shut down for a period of time to be cleaned out and put back in opening day condition.

I just don't see how that can happen with the way they are used non stop.

Now do they need some love and replace the cracked and broken interior no doubt but it is no where as easy as doing it through out the day like a restaurant.

Total BS. They aren't used 24 hours a day. Work can be done both after hours in the shop ... or during the day both a train at a time for major cleaning work, or simply having CMs assigned at stations for regular stuff like tossing out the water and Coke bottles that are always left behind. etc.

It's not hard if you care about doing it. IF YOU CARE!

 

[WDW1974]

Tokyo monorails are 15 years old and look like brand new. You know why? They hold themselves to the 1978 standards

You should never bring Tokyo into a discussion because 99% of people here (on a fan forum, no less) will never visit and about 96% don't care at all.

You wind up doing the circle (dance?) about different cultures etc. Not at all worth your time.

 

[Figment2005]

I'm also gonna disagree with you on this one, and you know I'm a fan of yours. The company managed to keep the trains in excellent condition for decades with guests pulling the same ****. This is a budget and staffing issue. I also think there's a difference in training now with SOP. I haven't seen a transportation cast member "sweep" the trains in years - meaning, when a train pulled in, I used to see cast walk each car and look in to grab trash - that rarely happens now. I'm not saying specifics, but in general. I've seen transportation management walk by garbage on the platform and in the trains and do nothing. When a train has fluid leak or grease stain on a panel, there used to be a cleaning rag available to wipe it down EACH time when the train came in - that never happens any more. If a door is malfunctioning, it was reported and fixed that night, not left that way for cast to slam their weight against for weeks on end. This is all stuff that I have personally witnessed. Even on the platform during load, cast used to spread out and direct/talk to the guests as they came in - now more often, they clump and talk to each other, which would have gotten you written up years ago. Drivers used to come out and chat with guests in the cars by the cabs for a bit, which doesn't happen nearly as often any more. It's all changes in practices that have made the norm in the system worse, unfortunately.

I can't argue with your point, and yes the cast should definitely be more involved with the guests. However, on the contrary, normally if there is time to truly interact, it normally means there is a downtime and the guests are angry. Most guests just want a smile and to get on the train. The drivers also don't end to have the freedom to interact with the guests for an extended period of time because of the volume of guests we are trying to move. Although magical moments do happen.

 

[WDW1974]

I can't argue with your point, and yes the cast should definitely be more involved with the guests. However, on the contrary, normally if there is time to truly interact, it normally means there is a downtime and the guests are angry. Most guests just want a smile and to get on the train. The drivers also don't end to have the freedom to interact with the guests for an extended period of time because of the volume of guests we are trying to move. Although magical moments do happen.

A MAGICal moment for me?

A clean, well maintained and properly climate controlled monorail that doesn't sit on a beam for 10 minutes waiting for traffic clearance (something that almost NEVER happened in the 70s and 80s).

Asking too much?

 

[Figment2005]

A MAGICal moment for me?

A clean, well maintained and properly climate controlled monorail that doesn't sit on a beam for 10 minutes waiting for traffic clearance (something that almost NEVER happened in the 70s and 80s).

Asking too much?

Now we approach the double edged sword. If 4 trains are running on the express beam and are holding to the 1:30 loading time, there is going to be about 2 minutes of holding on the open beam each way.

If the cast do as you wanted and held up loading a train for a few minutes each stop to sweep the cabins, then the time it would take to reach your stop would greatly increase. You would be looking at 3-5 minute station times and the 2 minute holding time on the open beam.

Sadly, right now, you can't have both. Either super clean trains or quick delivery.

 

[CDavid]

Now we approach the double edged sword. If 4 trains are running on the express beam and are holding to the 1:30 loading time, there is going to be about 2 minutes of holding on the open beam each way.

If the cast do as you wanted and held up loading a train for a few minutes each stop to sweep the cabins, then the time it would take to reach your stop would greatly increase. You would be looking at 3-5 minute station times and the 2 minute holding time on the open beam.

Sadly, right now, you can't have both. Either super clean trains or quick delivery.

Yes, you most certainly can.

Is there some obscure law of physics which dictates the trains cannot be swept and cleaned while in motion? Just take one car out of service at a time, and assign a custodial CM. This isn't rocket science.

But that still ignores the fact that most cleaning and refurbishment properly takes place overnight while the monorail system is shut down. Again, this is an issue of budget and proper management. It is not a matter of operational requirements, practicality of monorails, unique parts, or anything else.

 

[lazyboy97o]

The problem with the monorail conditions is simply that Bombardier probably no longer makes parts to properly service/refresh them. Disney and Bombardier probably have a contract in place that the latter is to provide (at least certain) parts for X number of years after delivery. For the few trains that Disney runs, I'm sure there isn't a warehouse full of every conceivable part. That's not to say that Disney couldn't commission a new batch of Part X, but it's an expensive proposition. In the long run, if there are new trains in the not too distant future... What Disney is doing right now is buying time without investing unnecessarily. Either that - or they're just being cheap with a "good enough" attitude. It wouldn't be the first time.

How much business is Alweg doing these days? Bombardier has nothing to do with Disney letting the interiors fall apart.

In 1971 the monorails were something to behold and and were like nothing else in the eastern US, but have always been a disaster in waiting. Any Central Floridian knows sinkholes are an ever present threat/danger and even a small one would shut down the monorail system forever. Heaven forbid one would occur under the Magic Kingdom. The monorails should have been replaced with a light rail system years ago after the novelty of riding a monorail was over. This current discussion of mold, mildew and alignment of carpeting, etc. is a distraction. Yes, Disney engineers constantly monitor the pylons, beams, etc., but Mother Nature is the ultimate engineer.

Light rail can now magically fend off sink holes?

 

[Figment2005]

Yes, you most certainly can.

Is there some obscure law of physics which dictates the trains cannot be swept and cleaned while in motion? Just take one car out of service at a time, and assign a custodial CM. This isn't rocket science.

But that still ignores the fact that most cleaning and refurbishment properly takes place overnight while the monorail system is shut down. Again, this is an issue of budget and proper management. It is not a matter of operational requirements, practicality of monorails, unique parts, or anything else.

Not physics, guest satisfaction. The four keys are safety, courtesy, show, efficiency. Is it courteous to the guests to take a car that can hold 60 passengers out of service for cleaning during the operational day? According to the four keys, no.

Courtesy is getting the guests safely and quickly to there destination.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Not physics, guest satisfaction. The four keys are safety, courtesy, show, efficiency. Is it courteous to the guests to take a car that can hold 60 passengers out of service for cleaning during the operational day? According to the four keys, no.

Courtesy is getting the guests safely and quickly to there destination.

It doesn't take that long for a person to walk into a cab and do a quick trash pickup. It could easily be done as people are exiting the train.

 

[articos]

I can't argue with your point, and yes the cast should definitely be more involved with the guests. However, on the contrary, normally if there is time to truly interact, it normally means there is a downtime and the guests are angry. Most guests just want a smile and to get on the train. The drivers also don't end to have the freedom to interact with the guests for an extended period of time because of the volume of guests we are trying to move. Although magical moments do happen.

Now we approach the double edged sword. If 4 trains are running on the express beam and are holding to the 1:30 loading time, there is going to be about 2 minutes of holding on the open beam each way.

If the cast do as you wanted and held up loading a train for a few minutes each stop to sweep the cabins, then the time it would take to reach your stop would greatly increase. You would be looking at 3-5 minute station times and the 2 minute holding time on the open beam.

Sadly, right now, you can't have both. Either super clean trains or quick delivery.

(Please take this as constructive discussion and not arguing for the sake of arguing - it's easy to feel ganged up on and that's not where I want this to go. It's valuable to me to know the point of view of the people who are dealing with the guests day to day.) Ok, I agree many guests want a smile and to be left on their own, but 99% of the time I've been observing at TTC or MK the past 5 years, transportation cast have been more involved in talking amongst themselves. Even when opening the gates, they rarely look at guests, let alone interact with guests. There IS time - there's time from the moment the train pulls away while people filter in to the corrals to the moment they get on the next train...cast used to work the entire rail - one greeter would be stationed at the top of the ramp to meet incoming guests and give them a smile and help direct to the corrals on one side or the other. Then the cast behind the gates would walk the barrier and say hi and chat with kids and parents while waiting for the next train to pull in. Very rarely happens now. As to checking the compartments, when the cast member is opening the gates, they can also look in the car to see if there's trash or a spill or an item left behind, and go grab it if so, either before or after opening the gates. That also never happens anymore. Remember, the old trains they needed to close every single door. 3-5 min station times weren't a bad thing if it meant clean trains and better guest service. I think guests would be happier knowing the system is in top shape and clean and they're being kept occupied waiting for a few more minutes anticipating a monorail ride, rather than treating it like a system that MUST dispatch every 2 minutes regardless of the state of the trains. That's where you get in trouble, and I think where transportation management has lost their way. Holds can be managed if the trains are spread correctly and there's proper communication between dispatch and trains and stations.

 

[Figment2005]

It doesn't take that long for a person to walk into a cab and do a quick trash pickup. It could easily be done as people are exiting the train.

Actually it is. One person is in charge of unloading a train. It's impractical to have that person walk the length of the train each lap to check for trash. Especially if there are wheelchairs or scooters that need to be unloaded.

 

[DisneyGentleman]

Airliners have a distinct advantage in that the interiors are modular and there are quite a few of them in service so interior parts are a commodity item in the open market.

That actually is not true. Airline interiors are all custom, created by vendors to satisfy their customers (the airlines). Some top-end airliner seats cost $100K apiece.

Disney could do it if they wanted to do it. They just get by instead.

 

[DisneyGentleman]

Im just spitballing, and please dont think Im excusing guest behavior in any way because I am not. Disney has the money and capability to upkeep the trains, they just choose not to. Please note that I 100% agree with you about guest behavior, but people arent gonna change and Disney will have to spend the money either way, so why not just take the step of preventative maintenance and do something about it rather than wait and have a horrible looking fleet.

This!!

Case in point - take a ride on the Disneyland monorails. They are beautiful.

 

[Figment2005]

(Please take this as constructive discussion and not arguing for the sake of arguing - it's easy to feel ganged up on and that's not where I want this to go. It's valuable to me to know the point of view of the people who are dealing with the guests day to day.) Ok, I agree many guests want a smile and to be left on their own, but 99% of the time I've been observing at TTC or MK the past 5 years, transportation cast have been more involved in talking amongst themselves. Even when opening the gates, they rarely look at guests, let alone interact with guests. There IS time - there's time from the moment the train pulls away while people filter in to the corrals to the moment they get on the next train...cast used to work the entire rail - one greeter would be stationed at the top of the ramp to meet incoming guests and give them a smile and help direct to the corrals on one side or the other. Then the cast behind the gates would walk the barrier and say hi and chat with kids and parents while waiting for the next train to pull in. Very rarely happens now. As to checking the compartments, when the cast member is opening the gates, they can also look in the car to see if there's trash or a spill or an item left behind, and go grab it if so, either before or after opening the gates. That also never happens anymore. Remember, the old trains they needed to close every. single. door. 3-5 min station times weren't a bad thing if it meant clean trains and better guest service. I think guests would be happier knowing the system is in top shape and clean and they're being kept occupied waiting for a few more minutes anticipating a monorail ride, rather than treating it like a system that MUST dispatch every 2 minutes regardless of the state of the trains. That's were you get in trouble. Holds can be managed if the trains are spread correctly and there's proper communication between dispatch and trains and stations.

Once again I can't argue with your points about cast interaction. Just for clarity, when you say walking the length of the gates, are you talking on the guest side or the trough side?

 

[articos]

Once again I can't argue with your points about cast interaction. Just for clarity, when you say walking the length of the gates, are you talking on the guest side or the trough side?

Trough side. Used to be one cast member at the top of the ramp as greeter (not necessarily on the ramp, but in that vicinity to help say hi and direct guests to one side or the other, or just to say "Anywhere you'd like to go", then 2-3 cast members on the trough side, then one lead (usually) roaming as needed.

 

[Figment2005]

Trough side. Used to be one cast member at the top of the ramp as greeter (not necessarily on the ramp, but in that vicinity to help say hi and direct guests to one side or the other, or just to say "Anywhere you'd like to go", then 2-3 cast members on the trough side, then one lead (usually) roaming as needed.

That's what I thought, and we are no longer allowed on the trough side. Cast must be on the same side as the guests making it much more difficult to walk the length when the platform is full.