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News Monorail Red in motion with guests on board and doors open

msg7

Well-Known Member
Now if they do get new monorails, which will most likely happen, what will happen with the current automation system implemented by Thales? Is it compatible with different trains? If so, would they bring the existing sensors & computers from the M-VI's over to the new trains?
 
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s8film40

Well-Known Member
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Honestly the doors and the flush loading should be a huge priority, plus opening up both sides of the car to allow for more scooters and strollers.. The 200 series solves these both. I hope new trains and not a rebuild is in order.
I agree that flush loading as you say would be great. It’s ironic the background behind that. Bombardier wanted sliding doors. Of course sliding doors couldn’t sit flush with the train. The lead imagined Geaorgr McGinnis claimed he wanted the doors on the train to be flush when closed similar to the Mark IV. From a design standpoint this is far better looking. This however is what led to the whole up and down and out and around motion that also led to the need for wheelchair ramps and not being able to place station gates near the train.
I'm looking over the specs of the 200 and the capacity seems to be about the same, if not a little less then the current Mark VI's. That could wind up being a problem.
There’s more useable standing room so the net result should be the same or higher capacity.
What if they went with a company that we necessarily haven’t thought about?
It kind of seems to me that if they didn’t go with Bomabardier it would likely have to be some virtually unheard of company. Most other companies that make Monorail’s have their own designs and probably wouldn’t be interested in working on a Bombardier monorail system. Ive also been curious if another company even could. Since Bombardier owns patents on much of the technology involved for that specific system I wonder if the alternate company Disney chose could just end up in a patent lawsuit with Bombardier.
 

Rteetz

Well-Known Member
It kind of seems to me that if they didn’t go with Bomabardier it would likely have to be some virtually unheard of company. Most other companies that make Monorail’s have their own designs and probably wouldn’t be interested in working on a Bombardier monorail system. Ive also been curious if another company even could. Since Bombardier owns patents on much of the technology involved for that specific system I wonder if the alternate company Disney chose could just end up in a patent lawsuit with Bombardier.
Disney hasn't only used Bombardier. They have used Martin Marietta. Disney also doesn't have the strongest relationship with Bombardier which doesn't help things out.
 

s8film40

Well-Known Member
Disney hasn't only used Bombardier. They have used Martin Marietta. Disney also doesn't have the strongest relationship with Bombardier which doesn't help things out.
They used Martin Marietta to build the trains they designed. They then sold those designs to Bombardier.

They don’t exactly have a bad relationship with Bombardier. They’ve done business together several times for various things since the Mark VI project.
 

Rteetz

Well-Known Member
They used Martin Marietta to build the trains they designed. They then sold those designs to Bombardier.

They don’t exactly have a bad relationship with Bombardier. They’ve done business together several times for various things since the Mark VI project.
And one of those more recent times made the relationship not as good. Just going off what I was told and Bombardier is not involved due to a bad relationship.
 

s8film40

Well-Known Member
And one of those more recent times made the relationship not as good. Just going off what I was told and Bombardier is not involved due to a bad relationship.
I haven’t really heard of anything negative towards Bombardier, but who knows. More importantly Bombardier has the experience with that system necessary to do the job right. If anyone else does it they’ll essentially be starting from scratch and probably create a subpar product whereas Bombardier is the only company that has a tested design ready to go. Business is business and either side could easily put aside differences for a project like that.

If Disney is really thinking of getting new trains, and that’s likely a very big if really the two best options are get some new trains from Bombardier or rebuild what they have. They know the design of the trains they have works well. A complete tear down and refurbishment would make them like new. They could add new bodies to update the design and reconfigure the cabins for a more efficient layout.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Disney hasn't only used Bombardier. They have used Martin Marietta. Disney also doesn't have the strongest relationship with Bombardier which doesn't help things out.
It seems doubtful that Lockheed Martin would be up for building monorails. Yes, any number of fabricators could build the parts based on a Disney design (see Mark VII) but then you also run the risk of having problems (see Mark VII). The whole advantage of going to Bombardier is that you are buying the closest thing to a stock design, not a truly custom one off.
 

Brad Bishop

Well-Known Member
I hope @Rteez is correct.

I don't remember hearing a rumor from him before and usually it comes from a few other sources and none of them have said a peep.

Without further confirmation my mind is stuck on: Disney will keep doing more of the same and the solution for this latest thing will be signs, which they've already implemented, and having someone look at the door/process. I just don't see them doing anything more with it.
 

Rteetz

Well-Known Member
It seems doubtful that Lockheed Martin would be up for building monorails. Yes, any number of fabricators could build the parts based on a Disney design (see Mark VII) but then you also run the risk of having problems (see Mark VII). The whole advantage of going to Bombardier is that you are buying the closest thing to a stock design, not a truly custom one off.
I don’t disagree. Bombardier just currently isn’t involved.
 

mikejs78

Premium Member
I hope @Rteez is correct.

I don't remember hearing a rumor from him before and usually it comes from a few other sources and none of them have said a peep.

Without further confirmation my mind is stuck on: Disney will keep doing more of the same and the solution for this latest thing will be signs, which they've already implemented, and having someone look at the door/process. I just don't see them doing anything more with it.
The signs are a stopgap. I highly doubt their legal team would let them get away with just signs. If it's an easy repair, sure, but if it's more systemic, they have two real choices: replace or shutter. And I don't think they will shutter the monorail.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I hope @Rteez is correct.

I don't remember hearing a rumor from him before and usually it comes from a few other sources and none of them have said a peep.

Without further confirmation my mind is stuck on: Disney will keep doing more of the same and the solution for this latest thing will be signs, which they've already implemented, and having someone look at the door/process. I just don't see them doing anything more with it.
New trains don’t magically fix the cultural problems that have allowed the monorails to deteriorate.
 

Brad Bishop

Well-Known Member
New trains don’t magically fix the cultural problems that have allowed the monorails to deteriorate.
Very true. I could see the train requirements:
- Must have a lifespan of 30 years... -thinking ahead, there, Disney- ... So we can run them for 50. DOH!
 

jpeden

Well-Known Member
Going through the list of possible partners.

Named
Siemens (Shanghai Maglev)
Bombardier (Legacy WED-Alweg System)

Not Named
Alstom
Hitatchi Monorail (Tokyo Disney Resort Line)
Intamin (Moscow and Shenzhen)
Mitsubishi Heavy Industries
Let's see, we know some of these are out based on what's been said:

Siemens (just eneded park sponsorship - can't see this coming back in this way)
Bombardier
Intamin

That leaves:
Alstom
Hitachi
Mitsubishi

The only one on that list with direct experience with Disney monorails would be Hitachi - I wouldn't be surprised if it's them.
 

larryz

Can't 'Member Anything
Premium Member
Let's see, we know some of these are out based on what's been said:

Siemens (just eneded park sponsorship - can't see this coming back in this way)
Bombardier
Intamin

That leaves:
Alstom
Hitachi
Mitsubishi

The only one on that list with direct experience with Disney monorails would be Hitachi - I wouldn't be surprised if it's them.
I had a rice cooker by Hitachi that lasted about 3 years... I really expected a longer lifespan out of it. It's just a rice cooker, not a monorail.
 

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
Let's see, we know some of these are out based on what's been said:

Siemens (just eneded park sponsorship - can't see this coming back in this way)
Bombardier
Intamin

That leaves:
Alstom
Hitachi
Mitsubishi

The only one on that list with direct experience with Disney monorails would be Hitachi - I wouldn't be surprised if it's them.
Big problem with Hitatchi is that they, and by extension TDR monorail, have a different beam and train standard than the legacy system.
 

jpeden

Well-Known Member
Big problem with Hitatchi is that they, and by extension TDR monorail, have a different beam and train standard than the legacy system.
True, but as stated I'd imagine whatever this is is going to be a custom build so it fits the current beam and the Contemporary clearances - they aren't modifying the entire line's beams regardless of who they go with.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a Monorail designed by WDI, and then built by someone else like Hitachi if Bombardier is really out of the picture as stated before.

@Rteetz I'm assuming there aren't any other details you're willing to spill on this meeting?
 

Rteetz

Well-Known Member
True, but as stated I'd imagine whatever this is is going to be a custom build so it fits the current beam and the Contemporary clearances - they aren't modifying the entire line's beams regardless of who they go with.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a Monorail designed by WDI, and then built by someone else like Hitachi if Bombardier is really out of the picture as stated before.

@Rteetz I'm assuming there aren't any other details you're willing to spill on this meeting?
Not at the moment.
 

msg7

Well-Known Member
True, but as stated I'd imagine whatever this is is going to be a custom build so it fits the current beam and the Contemporary clearances - they aren't modifying the entire line's beams regardless of who they go with.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a Monorail designed by WDI, and then built by someone else like Hitachi if Bombardier is really out of the picture as stated before.

@Rteetz I'm assuming there aren't any other details you're willing to spill on this meeting?
I really do think the monorail will be designed by WDI and built by an external major transport company. No "shelf models" like the Innovias, e.t.c. Here's Why:

*Note: Bob Gurr lead the design process for most monorails, if not all (not sure about the Mark VII.)
EDIT: According to @s8film40, George McGinnins was in charge of designing the Mark V & VI.

Mark I Monorail- Disneyland- Design: WDI (Alweg Design)
Contractor: WDI

Mark II Monorail- Disneyland- Design: WDI (Alweg Design; Upgraded Design of the Mark I)
Contractor: WDI

Mark III Monorail- Disneyland- Design: WDI (Alweg Design;Upgraded Design of the Mark II)
Contractor: WDI

Mark IV Monorail- WDW- Design: WDI
Contractor: Martin Marietta

Mark V Monorail- Disneyland- Design: WDI (Based on the WDW Mark IV; MK III Chassis)
Contractor: Ride & Show Engineering, Inc.


Mark VI Monorail- WDW- Design: WDI
Contractor: Bombardier

Mark VII Monorail- Disneyland- Design: WDI (MK III Chassis)
Contractor: Dynamic Structures

As you can see, WDI designed all the monorails from scratch. There definitely is a pattern and I wouldn't be surprised if Disney kept it going. That being said, monorails were not as popular as they are now back in the 20th century with a smaller amount of manufactures and models of trains. Let me know your thoughts.
 
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s8film40

Well-Known Member
Let's see, we know some of these are out based on what's been said:

Siemens (just eneded park sponsorship - can't see this coming back in this way)
Bombardier
Intamin

That leaves:
Alstom
Hitachi
Mitsubishi

The only one on that list with direct experience with Disney monorails would be Hitachi - I wouldn't be surprised if it's them.
I really have a hard time seeing these companies building trains for a competitors system. I suppose if there’s money some may be willing to consider it.
I really do think the monorail will be designed by WDI and built by an external major transport company. No "shelf models" like the Innovias, e.t.c. Here's Why:

*Note: Bob Gurr lead the design process for most monorails, if not all (not sure about the Mark VII.)

Mark I Monorail- Disneyland- Design: WDI
Contractor: Alweg

Mark II Monorail- Disneyland- Design: WDI (Upgraded Design of the Mark I)
Contractor: Alweg

Mark III Monorail- Disneyland- Design: WDI (Upgraded Design of the Mark II)
Contractor: Alweg

Mark IV Monorail- WDW- Design: WDI
Contractor: Martin Marietta

Mark V Monorail- Disneyland- Design: WDI (Based on the WDW Mark IV; MK III Chassis)
Contractor: Ride & Show Engineering, Inc.


Mark VI Monorail- WDW- Design: WDI
Contractor: Bombardier

Mark VII Monorail- Disneyland- Design: WDI (MK III Chassis)
Contractor: Dynamic Structures

As you can see, WDI designed all the monorails from scratch. There definitely is a pattern and I wouldn't be surprised if Disney kept it going. That being said, monorails were not as popular as they are now back in the 20th century with a smaller amount of manufactures and models of trains. Let me know your thoughts.
Bob Gurr was Mark I-IV, George McGinnins was Mark V & VI. I didn’t really follow the Mark VII as it was being done too much, but I seem to remember hearing it was an all new chassis. They took one of the old ones apart to look at it and sort of reverse engineer it I think. It’s also worth mentioning while Innovia is “off the shelf” it is the current evolution of the Disney Mark IV & VI design. So Bombardier IS the Disney design.

Also I really don’t think any of this is happening, but it’s fun to discuss.
 
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