News Monorail Red in motion with guests on board and doors open

[cr3346]

I suppose that's feasible, but won't that ruin the views for those expensive Contenporary/Bay Lake Tower rooms and DVC suites?

"The Big Dig" Seven Seas Lagoon edition.

 

[monothingie]

There are sensors that should have detected that the door was not properly closed. At that point it should have been impossible for the driver to ignore as it should cause the train to stop and then only be able to slowly creep along with driver bypass. Obviously this failed.

Or the train control system which is driving the train needs some debugging. If only they didn’t spends tens of millions on monorail infrastructure to put the automation system in....

 

[BoarderPhreak]

And speaking of the monorail red incident, I've seen video on YouTube and news reports around the internet of this happening on a few commuter rail lines, for instance CalTrain and Metra, so this is something that has happened before.

LOL... Here in the NYC metro area, it happens a LOT. Both NJ Transit and the LIRR had this happen in recent months. The cold weather exacerbates the problem, it seems. The trains don't stop, conductors don't even come to check it out... Just raw landscape beyond the threshold, rushing by! Random examples:

NJ Transit Train Door Abruptly Opens During Ride Amid Brutal Freeze
NJ Transit train traveled several stops with a door open
Commuter nightmare – LIRR train doors open suddenly over elevated track

 

[s8film40]

There are sensors that should have detected that the door was not properly closed. At that point it should have been impossible for the driver to ignore as it should cause the train to stop and then only be able to slowly creep along with driver bypass. Obviously this failed.

I’ll let more recent CMs elaborate on what’s gone on since automation started, but when I was there anytime a door became ajar, it was even pushed on hard from the inside, the driver receives a “door alert” in the cab with automatically stops the train. You were told the car and door that was affected on the screen. Then you’d notify the central controls who would clear you to use “door bypass” which was a switch located over your left shoulder, to move to a straight section of track to check your mirrors to verify the doors and hatches were closed. At that point Central would then clear you on door bypass (15mph limit) to the next station, which you had to enter at walking speed while checking your mirror constantly to ensure any loose door wasn’t torn off at high speed. You had to continually hold down door bypass in order for the train to move with a door alert, so it was quite awkward to both hold the switch down over your left shoulder, and operate the “throttle” with your right hand! Why this event didn’t trigger a door alert, I have no clue.

My understanding is it was locked out. You can't get a door alert if it's locked out.

 

[GCTales]

And you have proof?

@marni1971 - Chrysler does not require proof... His statements are self fulfilling prophecies. He has direct experiential knowledge due to his recent vis..... What do you mean he hasn't been there in years?

I mean, how often has he been wro.... Well, even a broken clock is right twice a... Not even that often???


Yeah... Basically a hater's pipe dream... Monorail is going nowhere..

A lot more expensive with no resale value.

Its going away its too expensive for todays TDO.

 

[Rowlet]

A friend of mine was at MK earlier today. She was waiting with her family for the next monorail while the monorail that was about to depart the station had a cabin that kept opening and closing its doors erratically. Cast members asked the guests in that cabin to exit and to board other cabins.

I've seen doors open and close a few times before a train departs, so I don't think it's unusual but it's weird that it happened with just one cabin. Nice to know that Disney isn't taking any risks if something seems off.

 

[IMDREW]

@marni1971 did siemens offer a new monorail fleet? Some say they did, some say they didn’t.

I would really be sad if any monorail line would be shut down. It really is one of my highlights of vacation and is such a special feeling nothing else can give.

 

[MisterPenguin]

The trains don't stop, conductors don't even come to check it out... Just raw landscape beyond the threshold, rushing by!

A verandah car costs extra.

 

[marni1971]

@marni1971 did siemens offer a new monorail fleet? Some say they did, some say they didn’t..

Not that I know of.

It certainly wasn’t why they left Epcot.

 

[Brad Bishop]

My memory is a bit hazy, but I do recall after the death of the young monorail pilot several years ago, Disney arguing with the State or Federal authorities whether the monorail was an attraction or transportation. I don't recall how that argument turned out, because it would have a direct effect on who investigates this situation.

I was actually there that night and I never understood quite how that happened (I wasn't on the platform or anything -just at the resort). Being at the resort is ancillary, though...

The kid died in the cockpit of the monorail train.

The train backing up towards him was coming at him and, I'm guessing it was moving at a rather slow clip / not full speed.

In my head it seems like he would have seen that and then did one of:
1) Shut the doors of his train and backup. You can argue that this is against procedure but you're about to have a collision and you're on a beam.
2) jumped out of the cockpit.

Unless the key is that the other monorail was supposed to be backing up on the other beam (and it was) and thus the kid really wasn't paying attention to his beam because his beam was out of order, in effect.

 

[msg7]

Now if they did invest in new monorails, would Bombardier build them? There was a lawsuit with Bombardier when the Mark VIs first entered service and the relationship between the 2 companies was "heavily strained."

 

[peachykeen]

I was actually there that night and I never understood quite how that happened (I wasn't on the platform or anything -just at the resort). Being at the resort is ancillary, though...

The kid died in the cockpit of the monorail train.

The train backing up towards him was coming at him and, I'm guessing it was moving at a rather slow clip / not full speed.

In my head it seems like he would have seen that and then did one of:
1) Shut the doors of his train and backup. You can argue that this is against procedure but you're about to have a collision and you're on a beam.
2) jumped out of the cockpit.

Unless the key is that the other monorail was supposed to be backing up on the other beam (and it was) and thus the kid really wasn't paying attention to his beam because his beam was out of order, in effect.

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/RAB1107.pdf

 

[crxbrett]

I was actually there that night and I never understood quite how that happened (I wasn't on the platform or anything -just at the resort). Being at the resort is ancillary, though...

The kid died in the cockpit of the monorail train.

The train backing up towards him was coming at him and, I'm guessing it was moving at a rather slow clip / not full speed.

In my head it seems like he would have seen that and then did one of:
1) Shut the doors of his train and backup. You can argue that this is against procedure but you're about to have a collision and you're on a beam.
2) jumped out of the cockpit.

Unless the key is that the other monorail was supposed to be backing up on the other beam (and it was) and thus the kid really wasn't paying attention to his beam because his beam was out of order, in effect.

I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying. But who knows what the driver was thinking at the moment. He may not have thought the situation was as critical as it ended up being and didn't think his life was in danger. Or maybe he didn't want to bail because he didn't want to endanger other people's lives on the train by jumping ship. He might have frozen up and by the time realized what was happening, it was too late. Hindsight is 20/20 of course. Had he known what we know now after the fact, that simply backing up the train would have saved his life or jumping out would have as well, I think he would have more than likely done so.

 

[peachykeen]

I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying. But who knows what the driver was thinking at the moment. He may not have thought the situation was as critical as it ended up being and didn't think his life was in danger. Or maybe he didn't want to bail because he didn't want to endanger other people's lives on the train by jumping ship. He might have frozen up and by the time realized what was happening, it was too late. Hindsight is 20/20 of course. Had he known what we know now after the fact, that simply backing up the train would have saved his life or jumping out would have as well, I think he would have more than likely done so.

Per the NTSB report I just linked:

“According to the onboard Local Monitoring and Control Unit, which captures and logs data during operations, the operator of the Purple monorail stopped the monorail and placed the controls in reverse, but before the Purple monorail could be moved, it was struck by the Pink monorail.”

 

[crxbrett]

Per the NTSB report I just linked:

“According to the onboard Local Monitoring and Control Unit, which captures and logs data during operations, the operator of the Purple monorail stopped the monorail and placed the controls in reverse, but before the Purple monorail could be moved, it was struck by the Pink monorail.”

Unfortunately, in accidents a split-second delay can be the difference in life or death. I wonder if he immediately went into action as soon as he saw it coming backwards or if he hesitated a few moments. It's human nature to sometimes stop or process what is happening.

That story was extremely sad and tragic. It must have been truly awful for his family, friends and the CMs he worked with and the guests who witnessed the accident that night.




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[zulemara]

Unfortunately, in accidents a split-second delay can be the difference in life or death. I wonder if he immediately went into action as soon as he saw it coming backwards or if he hesitated a few moments. It's human nature to sometimes stop or process what is happening.

That story was extremely sad and tragic. It must have been truly awful for his family, friends and the CMs he worked with and the guests who witnessed the accident that night.




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I was told that when he attempted to go in reverse, the train still had at least some degree of forward motion which caused an e-stop, essentially sealing his fate. I would think that info would be in the official report though from the train's computers. I'll have to go through and look.

The trains do have a feature that if the train is rolling in the opposite direction of the settings, it will e-stop. This happens to drivers at the hold point between GF and MK from what I'm told. I'm sure monorail pilots can confirm.

 

[s8film40]

The train backing up towards him was coming at him and, I'm guessing it was moving at a rather slow clip / not full speed.

In my head it seems like he would have seen that and then did one of:
1) Shut the doors of his train and backup. You can argue that this is against procedure but you're about to have a collision and you're on a beam.
2) jumped out of the cockpit.

Unless the key is that the other monorail was supposed to be backing up on the other beam (and it was) and thus the kid really wasn't paying attention to his beam because his beam was out of order, in effect.

I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying. But who knows what the driver was thinking at the moment. He may not have thought the situation was as critical as it ended up being and didn't think his life was in danger. Or maybe he didn't want to bail because he didn't want to endanger other people's lives on the train by jumping ship. He might have frozen up and by the time realized what was happening, it was too late. Hindsight is 20/20 of course. Had he known what we know now after the fact, that simply backing up the train would have saved his life or jumping out would have as well, I think he would have more than likely done so.

As a former monorail pilot I've given this scenario a lot of thought even way before that accident ever happened. Jumping out would have been very dangerous, it's about a 15 foot fall down to concrete. I honestly don't know in that scenario if I would have thought or been able to do that. There are a couple of different ways to reverse the train and they are very different. The thing is the standard practice for the train that was reversing is to accelerate after backing through the station. So depending on when the driver realized he was in the wrong place he may have been accelerating up to 30MPH. As the driver of the train being hit If you just hit reverse it will give the train an error and the train control system would need to be bypassesd to proceed in reverse. This bypass limits you to the lowest power setting, not only speed but acceleration. If you come to a complete stop and then reverse you would have full speed available but obviously to get to that point you've lost valuable moments. I honestly don't know which of those scenarios I would have chosen. The only thing I know I would have done differently is if I stayed in the cab the horn would have been in full use up until the collision. Don't think that probably would have mattered but I would have at least given it a shot. I have no doubt the whole thing happened so fast and so unexpectedly that it's hard for anyone to really know what they would have done in that scenario.

 

[monothingie]

@marni1971 I think you said you were privy to the possible design details of the new Epcot resort, do any of them result in a Monorail station removal from Epcot?

 

[ParksAndPixels]

Au contraire... there must be hundreds of people out there who would pay 6 or 7 figures to have one of the monorail cab cars sitting somewhere on their property...

One problem, if this keeps going Disney will have difficulty finding someone who thinks the condition of the monorail cabs are acceptable collectors items... lol. Actually if it will speed the process along, I can find a home for one!

 

[Phil12]

Now if they did invest in new monorails, would Bombardier build them? There was a lawsuit with Bombardier when the Mark VIs first entered service and the relationship between the 2 companies was "heavily strained."

I think the new monorails will be built by Whirlpool. I own one of their washing machines and I can guarantee that the thing won't run unless the door is locked shut. It also has a little warning light for the locked door and another warning light to make sure I run a cleaning cycle every month. That would be perfect to make sure that the monorails are cleaned on a regular basis.