• Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
    Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.You can use your Twitter or Facebook account to sign up, or register directly.

News Monorail Red in motion with guests on board and doors open

Brad Bishop

Well-Known Member
Ummm... Elevator technician of 25 years chiming in. The inspection sticker is renewed every year, but there is NO correlation between the State AHJ (Authority Having Jurisdiction-As defined by ASME 17.1) actually viewing and inspecting the elevator annually and the building owner or manager simply mailing in a check to the State authority and receiving the yearly operating permit.

Like so many things in life which are done under the guise of safety, it's mostly just about the government getting a cut (and you having to ask permission to do something).
 

MisterPenguin

Fully Pfizered!
Premium Member
And how percisely will guests get park and get to the MK? Logistically/landwise it just doesn't work.

You build a bridge over Seven Seas Lagoon! Then the trams don't stop at the TTC... they continue right across the bridge. This leaves the two MK monorail loops for the exclusive use of the resorts. The lower traffic and the ability to keep one working while refurbing the other means no more shut-downs. And the monorail resorts can bump their price to pay for it.
 

jbolen2

Well-Known Member
I don’t see the monorails going anywhere. I would be willing to bet the day new trains do come, that we have to buy a pass to ride them unless you are staying at a monorail resort.
 

asianway

Well-Known Member
I could see them demoing the sections that cross over roads and parking lots. If they deteriorated to the point where they collapse, then they'd be looking at injuries or worse. It'd take a very long time for them to fall apart if I had to guess though. But isn't the Epcot line not built to the same level of quality as the resort loop? (Still high quality, but wasn't it a cheaper build?)
Definitely. Much cheaper. They had to sand it down for years to get it from bone jarring to slightly bumpy. You can still feel the difference today
 

MansionButler84

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
1E373B1F-5BFE-4399-A4E1-DE3AA71A0B48.jpeg


How my 5-year olds envision the future of WDW transportation. The Land (Logan’s favorite at Epcot) at bottom.
 

mikejs78

Premium Member
You build a bridge over Seven Seas Lagoon! Then the trams don't stop at the TTC... they continue right across the bridge. This leaves the two MK monorail loops for the exclusive use of the resorts. The lower traffic and the ability to keep one working while refurbing the other means no more shut-downs. And the monorail resorts can bump their price to pay for it.
I suppose that's feasible, but won't that ruin the views for those expensive Contenporary/Bay Lake Tower rooms and DVC suites?
 

IanDLBZF

Well-Known Member
I doubt that the monorail will be going away anytime soon. I mean they just added automation to the system.

But new trains or a refurbished fleet are absolutely needed as the Mark VI has exceeded it's lifecycle, if only FDOT or Tallahassee could step in and fix the problem then it would be easier to obtain new "American-Made" monorail trains. They already turned down a proposal from Siemens, however Alstom or Bombardier seems probable as alternate contractors.
 

creathir

Monorail and PeopleMover Fanatic
Premium Member
Wow... that's gonna suck. Here we have light rail at the stadium.... and that holds way way way more people, and runs more trains... and leaving the game is still worse than Disneyland Main Street after the fireworks. Like 30mins and a wall of people for a hundred yards. Can't imagine the monorail being effective at all in their setup

Monorails are MUCH more effective at moving large amounts of people than light rail.
The problem with light rail is it rides at the surface and many times is within the same right of way as cars and other surface vehicles. Depending on design, it still gets stuck at lights and when there is a TON of traffic, it gets held up in it.

Obviously dedicated ROW helps with that, but most cities, especially in urban cores, do not dedicate ROW for light rail.

Monorail though doesn’t have that issue whatsoever. It’s above the surface. The limitation is only around how many trains are in the system.

Disney needs to update this system, and keep pace with the changing technology. There is absolutely no reason this system cannot be fully automated 100%, and frankly expanding the system would aide in transportation throughout the resort.
 

BoarderPhreak

Well-Known Member
I doubt that the monorail will be going away anytime soon. I mean they just added automation to the system.

But new trains or a refurbished fleet are absolutely needed as the Mark VI has exceeded it's lifecycle, if only FDOT or Tallahassee could step in and fix the problem then it would be easier to obtain new "American-Made" monorail trains. They already turned down a proposal from Siemens, however Alstom or Bombardier seems probable as alternate contractors.

They also did work on various stations in recent years. There's a lot of infrastructure in general (beams, stations, etc.) in place that would need to be dealt with should they ever decommission the system, which wouldn't exactly be cheap either.

I would agree that a new fleet is in order and probably the best way forward at this point. I suspect Bombardier will be the most likely source.
 

Da Man

Member
Like so many things in life which are done under the guise of safety, it's mostly just about the government getting a cut (and you having to ask permission to do something).

Yes and no. Either way the State or City having jurisdiction wants their money. But the other problem is, at least in my State, there just aren't enough inspectors to look at them all. And that's just the ones on the books. It's estimated there are up to 1500 units that, due to paperwork issues, non-reporting of installations, etc, aren't even 'on the books' to be inspected.

I would say it is more in line with any public bureaucracy - make sure you abide by all rules, regulations, and laws, but we'll get to our end whenever we can. Fortunately, and it appears the opposite of monorails, most if not all states have very aggressive codes and inspections that need to be adhered to by building owners and managers, with the outcome of non-compliance being the dreaded 'red tag' or 'shut down and lock out' of the unit - when it is discovered by the State AHJ.

In my own personal opinion (and it is JUST MINE) - the way WDW runs these monorails is quite lax on the maintenance and upkeep side. I doubt they would be given a 'passing' score if they were the equivalent of an elevator. What I can say factually, is that after viewing the video, an elevator that exhibited that condition (running at contract speed with doors open) would be immediately removed from service by the AHJ, 'red-tagged', and have it's operating permit revoked, pending both a root failure analysis/correction and complete investigation of the maintenance records to-date. This is standard procedure as dictated by ASME 17.1.

The equivalent of this in the vertical transportation world has happened before, both without and with injuries. The outcome, when the State AHJ was made aware, has always been swift.

Curious as to the lack of reaction here by any State authorities (that we are aware of).
 

Da Man

Member
Or even Federal (i.e. FRA or USDOT).

My memory is a bit hazy, but I do recall after the death of the young monorail pilot several years ago, Disney arguing with the State or Federal authorities whether the monorail was an attraction or transportation. I don't recall how that argument turned out, because it would have a direct effect on who investigates this situation.
 

Cameron1529

Active Member
What would cause this to happen? If the controls for the doors are on the exterior of the front cabs, they couldn't accidently be operated while in motion, so I guess this is some sort of mechanical malfunction? Wouldn't there be fail safes to prevent this exact senario from happening though?

That is what I was thinking. I would assume there is a mechanicals fault with this particular door. However there should be an alert that informs the driver/controller. It raises questions as to whether they don’t have those safety precautions in place, or the driver/controller failed to pay attention to the warning or alert.
 

peter11435

Well-Known Member
That is what I was thinking. I would assume there is a mechanicals fault with this particular door. However there should be an alert that informs the driver/controller. It raises questions as to whether they don’t have those safety precautions in place, or the driver/controller failed to pay attention to the warning or alert.
There are sensors that should have detected that the door was not properly closed. At that point it should have been impossible for the driver to ignore as it should cause the train to stop and then only be able to slowly creep along with driver bypass. Obviously this failed.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I doubt that the monorail will be going away anytime soon. I mean they just added automation to the system.

But new trains or a refurbished fleet are absolutely needed as the Mark VI has exceeded it's lifecycle, if only FDOT or Tallahassee could step in and fix the problem then it would be easier to obtain new "American-Made" monorail trains. They already turned down a proposal from Siemens, however Alstom or Bombardier seems probable as alternate contractors.
There was no Siemens offer. Siemens doesn’t make Alweg-style straddle beam monorails. Neither does Alstom.
 

peachykeen

Well-Known Member
I’ll let more recent CMs elaborate on what’s gone on since automation started, but when I was there anytime a door became ajar, it was even pushed on hard from the inside, the driver receives a “door alert” in the cab with automatically stops the train. You were told the car and door that was affected on the screen. Then you’d notify the central controls who would clear you to use “door bypass” which was a switch located over your left shoulder, to move to a straight section of track to check your mirrors to verify the doors and hatches were closed. At that point Central would then clear you on door bypass (15mph limit) to the next station, which you had to enter at walking speed while checking your mirror constantly to ensure any loose door wasn’t torn off at high speed. You had to continually hold down door bypass in order for the train to move with a door alert, so it was quite awkward to both hold the switch down over your left shoulder, and operate the “throttle” with your right hand! Why this event didn’t trigger a door alert, I have no clue.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Top Bottom