Monorail Expansion?

[cymbaldiva]

Originally posted by jmarc63


I totaly agree with you on that cymbaldiva

Thanks Sweetie! :sohappy:

 

[jmarc63]

one thing I just noticed looking at some WDW pic posted at Disney PIX is the reconstruction of the entry thru the Contempoary, I didn'y realize when I was there in 93 that they had to rebuild the Airdoor to accomidate the taller MarkVI Trains.

Oh and I almost for got to Thank you Cylmbaldiva, your so kind:kiss: :kiss:

 

[bamboo7]

Originally posted by jmarc63
one thing I just noticed looking at some WDW pic posted at Disney PIX is the reconstruction of the entry thru the Contempoary, I didn'y realize when I was there in 93 that they had to rebuild the Airdoor to accomidate the taller MarkVI Trains.

i just looked there real quick and couldn't find the pics you are talking about. you could provide a link, or post them?

 

[jmarc63]

Originally posted by bamboo7


i just looked there real quick and couldn't find the pics you are talking about. you could provide a link, or post them?

shure Bamboo.
goto the page then click on the Transportationl link then click Monorail then choose a year. I found the ones im refering to in May 2001 or December 1981, you can see there some kind of shiny surface around the airdoor that wasn't there when they built the Contempoary. I cant post the pic because it is too big so this is the best I can find at this time unless someone has a recent pic of the north or south side of the building/

http://www.disneypix.com/index.htm

 

[cymbaldiva]

:kiss: You're very welcome jmarc63! :kiss: :animwink: :kiss:

 

[jzumfele]

After reading through all these post and looking at the WDW maps and watching the "EPCOT video" and the info videos on the PRT system, I think the PRT system would be the best system for a new WDW transportation system.

The PRT system should be the main transportation sytem while keeping the current monorail and boats. There should be a dual beam of the PRT system connecting all theme parks and resorts and water parks and DD in one big loop. One beam would run clockwise and the other counter clockwise. This would give a larger capacity and also give people a choice of picking the shortest route to their destination. They should also keep a small fleet of busses that could be used as backup when there is a problem with the PRT system and at park opening and closing if there is a big backup of people.


First they should go with Walt's idea of a main entrance that could be built in the area bordered by I4 and 192 and World Drive. They could build several "themed" parking garages each with its own PRT station. They could close the parking lots at the theme parks. The people that would be parking at the new "entrance" would be charged the parking fee plus a transportation fee. The people that stay at the onsite resorts would not be charged the transportation fee. To stop people from parking at the resorts to avoid the fee, turnstiles could be set up at the resort stations where you would have to swipe your resort ID or a theme park ticket that has already been activated at a park that day.

They could close the current TTC and the express monorail loop could be connected to the epcot line. Then there would be a direct monorail line from the Magic Kingdom to Epcot.

When the Magic Kingdom closes you would have the resort monorail line for those resort guest, a direct monorail to epcot when epcot is open later than the MK, and the PRT system to the other resorts and the entance center. Direct busses could also be used to the entrance center if needed.

At Epcot there would be a PRT station at the front entrance and at the International Gateway to split up the people leaving. Direct busses from the front entrance to the entrance center could be used if needed. The epcot monorail could also take people back to the MK resorts.

This system would allow anyone to travel between any place on WDW property without a transfer. Park hopping and resort hopping for the restaurants would be very easy. This would be a bigger "WOW" than just expanding the monorail system. The PR and goodwill for Disney would be HUGE. The PRT system would be more flexible than the monorail but just as "COOL". They could even theme the cars on the PRT system.

 

[stuart]

well i dunno about PRT but i think that imagineering should come up with something that will be put down by the worlds media and skeptics and turn out to proove them wrong and be a great success, like the monorail. I think that there would have been would have been a strong case for monorail expansion with at least all the parks being linked up.

There would be some problems i think getting a monorail going to serve the EPCOT resort hotels. However since september 11th i think with reduced numbers of people coming they may just stick with the busses (and in 8 years of coming to disney i have NEVER been on a smelly or un clean bus).

If there was any expansion i think there should be a line between EPCOT to MGM and AK. And then another line from MGM and AK DIRECT to the TTC.

 

[sy278]

Originally posted by plpeters70
That last post I made got me thinking again about the monorail, so I have another idea!! :animwink: Think about this, and I want you "logistics" people to tell me your opinions of it.

Imagine for a moment that there is no TTC, and all of WDW's theme parks have a parking lot in front of them, and two monorail stations at the entrance. Now also imagine that each park has a resort loop - like the MK has today. But instead of the TTC, the "hub" of each loop is the theme park it is attached to. So MGM has it's own loop that stops and starts at MGM. AK has one that starts and stops at AK, etc, etc. So, one of the two monorail stations at the front of each park is for that parks resort loop.

Now, about the second station. What if that station was a "Grand Loop" that directly connected all 4 WDW theme parks. This would be a HUGE route, so I'm assuming they could fit quite a few trains on it. Plus, there would be two beams - each traveling in the opposite direction so that if you were at MGM and wanted to go to EPCOT, you wouldn't have to travel to AK and the MK, but would go directly from MGM to EPCOT.

So with this "Grand Loop" scheme coupled with the 4 resort loops, you could get from any WDW hotel to any WDW theme park with only ONE transfer neccesary. As for the water parks and Downtown Disney, I'll leave that to alternate modes of transporation.

The only real problem I see with this scheme is if the "Grand Loop" had a breakdown, they would have to have a way to clear the track really, really fast. But, since there would be two tracks, they could at least utilize that one until the other is clear - it would just cause a slowdown in the system. But I'm sure that if it was designed really well, it could work.


Unfortunately, WDW Today is not designed with 4 resort loops, so I doubt this could be implemented today - but it's not totally impossible. Perhaps they could divide up the resorts into MK, EPCOT, MGM and Animal Kingdom resorts, and have a monorail loop for each. Then, they could construct the "Grand Loop" between all the parks, but they would really have to bypass the TTC and go directly to the MK for this to really work. And maybe since the Downtown Disney area is so HUGE now, we could add that as a fifth stop on the "Grand Loop", and have another resort loop (or PeopleMover system) for those hotels. The water parks and any other extras, I would leave to the buses - but this scheme would seriously cut down on the number of buses needed at WDW!

OK all you "monorail haters" , tear my idea to pieces!!! Tell me why this scheme could never work in a million years!

First of all let me apologise for how late I am in responding to this post but i have only just joined the boards!:wave:

I just want to say although I would love to see the monorail expanded I personally dont think it will happen, however concerning the "Grand Loop" system, where I live - Glasgow Scotland - our citys Uderground/subway system is exactly like the Grand Loop but without the adjoining park loops, now only very occasionaly does it ever have a breakdown which causes either the Inner or Outer Circle - thats the track names - to be closed and they can clear this really quickly all they do is deploy a diesel driven engine onto the track which goes round the track hooks up to the broken down train and tows it off the track. I am not sure about train numbers on the tracks at peak times but I do know that no train is allowed to leave its current station until the next station has no train standing at it so being that there are 15 stations on this loop which is 10.4km long that would suggest a maximum nuber of 7 trains per track. Basically what i am saying is that this "Grand Loop" system does work it has operated in Glasgow since 1896 but it cant do it on its own it does need the "overground" the Glasgow Public Bus Service, so what I am saying is that I dont belive any one single system will ever be enough!

If you want more information on the Glasgow Underground System to see what I am talking about try this website: http://www.spt.co.uk/Travel/Underground.asp

 

[sy278]

Originally posted by Invero
Okay... I have time for a quick reply before I head off for work...

Longer stops would occur because you have larger trains. During peak times, you have more people getting in and out... During slow times, you have those folks who will walk alllllllllllll the way down to the end of the train looking for the best seat. My estimation for the average dwell time for an expanded Disney train would be 2 minutes for peak time, and 5 minutes for non-peak time.


Also, longer trains mean larger beams and larger stations. A full size monorail capable of holding 1000 people... that's a *LARGE* train. At thatsize, you get to the point where it's so huge, it looses the magic and becomes impersonal. (In addition to not being able to fit in a lot of places)

As stated before, the Contemporary cannot handle larger trains, as such the guests would have to transfer at the TTC and board the already maxed out current system, creating huge lines, and angry guests.

As for staggering the park closing times... that's not something Transportation has any power over. There will be times when Epcot, MK, and Studios will all close at 9pm.

And in regards to transfers... 0 transfers is the goal. It's EASY, and it's quick. Total travel time, you want no more than 20 minutes on average. (Most of our routes are 13-15)


If someone can design a transportation system that takes the following rules into account... then we might have a winner.


1.) It must be able to be flexible. Traffic flows often change. It must be able to shrink and grow with demand.
2.) It must be able to handle the mass crowds of a park exit with speed and efficiency.
3.) It must be Direct. All transfers must be kept to a bare minimum. All resorts must have direct access to the 4 main theme parks.
4.) It must not interfere with the theming of the resort. Any transportation system must blend in, and not distract from the theming.
5.) A transportation station must be a maximum of a 5 minute walk from all guest rooms.
6.) It must meet all federal ADA laws (Americans with Disabilites Act). However, not only must it be accessible, it must be EASILY accessible.
7.) It must be quick and efficient. Guests must be able to travel between resort and theme park in less than 20 minutes.
8.) It must come frequently. Guests should not have to wait more than 15 minutes for transportation.
9.) It must be Cost Feasible. By this, I mean, not outlandishly expensive, and within reason. It also must be paid by the resorts that it will service.
10.) The priority areas are All Stars and Pop Century... the Value resorts, and the ones that have the lesser room rates. Secondary concern areas would be Port Orleans, and Caribbean Beach.

Tyler,

Your in luck! I happen to know of the very system for you!

It utilises vehicles that are about medium truck size filled with seats, and use tracks that have no rails which I shall call "roads" and I shall call the vehicles - "BUSES"

 

[Invero]

Originally posted by sy278
Tyler,

Your in luck! I happen to know of the very system for you!

It utilises vehicles that are about medium truck size filled with seats, and use tracks that have no rails which I shall call "roads" and I shall call the vehicles - "BUSES"

LOL! Thanks!


(I must be dreaming, but did this thread get unearthed?)

 

[no2apprentice]

I know what you mean, Tyler! I think my eyes almost fell out of my head when I saw this thread. Hey! I think we found a concept for a new blockbuster movie...The Monorail Thread That Wouldn't Die.
:lookaroun

 

[goofyfan13]

Originally posted by no2apprentice
I know what you mean, Tyler! I think my eyes almost fell out of my head when I saw this thread. Hey! I think we found a concept for a new blockbuster movie...The Monorail Thread That Wouldn't Die.
:lookaroun

At first I thought this would be new thread and I was like, oh no here we go again! But then I saw how many pages it was and thought the same exact thing you did! :lol:

 

[Eeyore]

:lol: There is just no pleasing you people! If a new monorail expansion thread had been started there would have been a riot. :animwink:

 

[Invero]

Originally posted by Eeyore
:lol: There is just no pleasing you people! If a new monorail expansion thread had been started there would have been a riot. :animwink:

psst... there was...

 

[Eeyore]

Originally posted by Invero
psst... there was...

oops, a thread I hope and not a riot. :animwink:

 

[no2apprentice]

Originally posted by Eeyore
oops, a thread I hope and not a riot. :animwink:

I don't think there would be a riot, just a few

And maybe some :hammer: :hammer:

And possibly some :brick: :brick:

And of course, the inevitable

 

[10 min. to wdw]

Originally posted by Invero
psst... there was...

maybe you can convince the powers that be to move this to the important section of every board so it will be their right when you come onto any board
:brick:


so tyler have they ever talked about xpanding the wdw bus system? just thought you might want a different question to answer for a change.:lol:

 

[Invero]

Originally posted by 10 min. to wdw
so tyler have they ever talked about xpanding the wdw bus system? just thought you might want a different question to answer for a change.:lol:

LOL... yes... and they have! In the past 3 years, we have added 71 new low floor buses to our fleet. It should be noted that all 71 buses cost less than one six car Monorail train. (However, we are leasing them, which brings the cost down even more)

 

[scotty_l]

Originally posted by Invero
LOL... yes... and they have! In the past 3 years, we have added 71 new low floor buses to our fleet. It should be noted that all 71 buses cost less than one six car Monorail train. (However, we are leasing them, which brings the cost down even more)

If you are leasing them that what is the eventual next step. outsourcing bus operations to lets see Mears.... Can you see all the money saved by not having bus maitenance or the cleaning systems, potential insurance issues such as accidents or having to worry about hiring drivers or providing education.

Monorails whether they are expensive or not is a marketing tool... Sure at one time they where an invaliable transportation tool. Monorails and watercraft provide a not so-ordinary approach to provding transportation service. Not everyone commutes to work via subway/rail or via ferry but everyone sees a bus in their home town whether it at ther local Greyhound station or taking kids to school. It is familiar and not special and Disney provides this magic. Sure Disney have made their mistakes by one relying more and more on bus transportation and my opinion they ruined the uniqeness of the Magic Kingdom front end by bulding a bus station whats next homeless people and vending machines....

Disney had a unique opprtunity after the Floridian was built. The monorail beam molds were still relatively new (7 years) they had room to pour the beams and the knowledge. Attendance at the theme parks was up they were about to start the Disney Decade. Disney created a separate company called TGI to work with Bombardier to produce the new monorail train for the future as well as looking into expanding the system and they blew it they decided to pursue the cheaper alternative... Now I am afraid it is too late and has become too expensive.....

 

[thedisneyfan]

Originally posted by Invero
LOL... yes... and they have! In the past 3 years, we have added 71 new low floor buses to our fleet. It should be noted that all 71 buses cost less than one six car Monorail train. (However, we are leasing them, which brings the cost down even more)

WHAT?!?!??!?!?!


71 buses at $50,000 per bus would still be $3,550,000.00! And that's only at $50,000 per bus!