Monorail Expansion?

[Invero]

Originally posted by jmarc63
Fantasia Boi would be the expert but I beleive they use an automatic system simular to a Carwash that was specifically designed for the monorail and is located at the car barn behind MK. although they may of had to have modified it at some time to accomidate the taller Mark VI trains.

Actually... the trains get washed at the TTC, when parked on the Resort Beam. If you look above that beam, there is a steel I beam with two "trolleys" on them... those are safety rigs for someone to clean the top of the train... the rest of the train is washed and waxed just like a car... with soapy water in a bucket, and a hose... hehe The trains get detailed probably about once a month. However, nightly, the interiors are cleaned, and the windows washed. (inside and out)

 

[bamboo7]

Originally posted by Fantasia Boi


Actually... the trains get washed at the TTC, when parked on the Resort Beam. If you look above that beam, there is a steel I beam with two "trolleys" on them... those are safety rigs for someone to clean the top of the train... the rest of the train is washed and waxed just like a car... with soapy water in a bucket, and a hose... hehe The trains get detailed probably about once a month. However, nightly, the interiors are cleaned, and the windows washed. (inside and out)

interesting, how often do the exteriors get cleaned? are the trains rotated from beam to beam on a semi-regular basis, or are they switched to there just to be cleaned?

 

[dmspilot00]

Originally posted by bamboo7


interesting, how often do the exteriors get cleaned?

He said once a month.

I believe the trains are probably mixed up when they begin service in the morning. However I'll let the expert answer.

P.S. Those pictures were cool. It amazes me how those things stay on that skinny beam. And talk about collecting dust---the windows looked like they had silver paint on them.

 

[jmarc63]

Originally posted by Fantasia Boi


Semi-False rumor. There are four WDW Mark IV Monorails still in existance. 2 were rebuilt, and are currently in use in Las Vegas. 2 are currently gathering dust in a storage facility in Kissimmee. You can view photos of them at www.preskitt.com -- Although as of recently, Disney has sold off part of Monorail Red. (Silver is the other train in storage)

And yes, I've been there, seen the trains, sat in them, etc.

Tyler how do you get into that facility??

 

[jmarc63]

Originally posted by Fantasia Boi


Actually... the trains get washed at the TTC, when parked on the Resort Beam. If you look above that beam, there is a steel I beam with two "trolleys" on them... those are safety rigs for someone to clean the top of the train... the rest of the train is washed and waxed just like a car... with soapy water in a bucket, and a hose... hehe The trains get detailed probably about once a month. However, nightly, the interiors are cleaned, and the windows washed. (inside and out)

sheeeeeeeeeeit man tyler I was under the impression that ther was an "Auto" wash. I guess I wasn't far off when I jokes about the fee for a charity wash. lol

So how often are the exteriors washed, So it's not daily, and the do this in the "Dark" hours

 

[jmarc63]

Originally posted by dmspilot00


He said once a month.

I believe the trains are probably mixed up when they begin service in the morning. However I'll let the expert answer.

P.S. Those pictures were cool. It amazes me how those things stay on that skinny beam. And talk about collecting dust---the windows looked like they had silver paint on them.

Damm thats so sad..... I would love to have one of the Pilot cars and a middle car for a novelty piece to use in my house remodeling

 

[bamboo7]

Originally posted by dmspilot00


He said once a month.

I believe the trains are probably mixed up when they begin service in the morning. However I'll let the expert answer.

P.S. Those pictures were cool. It amazes me how those things stay on that skinny beam. And talk about collecting dust---the windows looked like they had silver paint on them.

he said they were detailed monthly. i didn't want to assume that he was saying they were washed monthly.

 

[dreamer]

Why did the interiors smell like manure last Sept? Do they still smell like that?

 

[dreamer]

Here's an idea I thought of a long time ago -- not for Disney, but just for transportation in general:

All vehicles on the premises guided by a central system. Radio controlled. Started. Stopped. Steered. Monitored.

They could be either fixed track or not.

Vehicle access to and exit from thoroughfares would be computer controlled. Existing traffic would be adjusted accordingly. In fact the computer could time when a vehicle leaves a station based on existing through traffic that it will encounter at the entry point. No waiting. No accidents.

I've wondered about this for years. Then saw it in Minority Report. I know it will happen somewhere, sometime. Why not Disney World?

This would eliminate private vehicles from the system and restore "magic" to it.

 

[CmdrTostada]

That would probably require a lot of Cray super computers, which are not cheap at all. Plus it would be nightmare for Disney to handle foreigners who dont understand english.

 

[dreamer]

No private cars would be allowed. They would have to park outside the area covered by the system.

Foreigners would be coming to see the transportation system, not in spite of it. They would know all about it before they got there. In fact, it would probably be built largely by foreigners.

I think this sort of system will cover the entire country when technology and the economy are ready for it. It's just a matter of time. (Then Disney will have to find something newer and better amid the discouragement of the next generation of "realists.")

 

[Invero]

Originally posted by bamboo7


he said they were detailed monthly. i didn't want to assume that he was saying they were washed monthly.

I'm sorry, I should have been more clear... by detailed, I did mean washed. We would always call it "Detailed" because when they would wash the train, they'd wax it, and clean the "accordians" and make it look all nice and new.

Typically, this process was done by outside vendors.

 

[plpeters70]

Another Question for Tyler...

I know you mentioned before that you couldn't add anymore monorails to the existing EPCOT loop, could you explain why?? Is it the weight of the trains on the guideway, or is it because of guest flow, or another reason??

The reason I ask was because I was thinking about them automating that loop one day -- they would probably want to add another train so that the trains would arrive every five minutes or so, so I was wondering if that would be possible.

 

[Invero]

Re: Another Question for Tyler...

Originally posted by plpeters70
I know you mentioned before that you couldn't add anymore monorails to the existing EPCOT loop, could you explain why?? Is it the weight of the trains on the guideway, or is it because of guest flow, or another reason??

The reason I ask was because I was thinking about them automating that loop one day -- they would probably want to add another train so that the trains would arrive every five minutes or so, so I was wondering if that would be possible.

When we run 3 trains, the trains arrive every 5-7 minutes on average, although sometimes more frequent if the CM's work well. With 4 trains (which we only do on Holidays), the trains arrive every 2-3 minutes. Often times, a train will have to hold at 204, which is right at the Imagination pavillion at Epcot. We generally don't like to stop the train inside the Epcot teardrop, because it's bad show.

If we were to add a fifth train to the Epcot loop, the system could handle it, yes... however, it would decrease efficiency. Now, we'd have trains holding at secondary hold points, which would not be a good thing.

This goes for the Express beam too. On the Express beam, with 4 trains, the cast members have to work extra hard to dispatch those trains. If a train holds in the station more than 60 seconds, the next train inevitably will have to hold at the primary hold point. Each train must have a 60 second station time. No more, no less. Now... each station is equipped with a timer. The timer starts when the train is 95% in the station, which means, it hasn't stopped yet. Assuming the driver stopped on the mark (and didn't have to back up... costing 5-10 extra seconds), it takes 15-25 seconds to stop and open the exit doors, and then the entry doors will be opened at the 30 second mark. Doors must start to close at the 45 second mark in order for the train to exit on time. That leaves 15 seconds for guests to board. Not really a lot of time.

Any delays to this, and the system will start to back up. Trains will start holding at the primary hold point (usual) and often times, holding at secondary hold points (Frowned upon). Holding at a secondary hold point means that it will take twice as long to reach the destination.

If the cast members are expediting the trains, and guests are being coopertive, a 60 second station time can be acheived, and trains will run every 60-90 seconds. By adding a 5th train onto Express... that would back up the system, and mean extra holding time, and reduced capacity.


As for the Resort Monorail... because of the small size of the loop, and the multiple stops... 5 trains would cause a huge backup. As it stands now, with 4 trains, we get backed up, but it is possible to run 4 trains, and if everyone works well... trains run smoothly, for the most part, with minimal holding.

 

[garyhoov]

Tyler,

That information is very interesting. It points to the possibility that some automation of the existing monorail system could, potentially increase capacity.

Many years ago, when the concept of self driving cars was fashionable, proponents pointed out that most traffic jams result from irregular stopping, starting, slowing accelerating. In theory, if cars were coordinated, and computer controlled, they would run much closer together and more cars would fit in a given space.

Many people have discussed automation on this board, but your comments lead me to believe monorail capacity could, potentially be increased without a major re-design of the track or trains if some automation was incorporated.

I have experienced the "tear drop stop" you mentioned and it is annoying. A more automated system could handle this with better pacing throughout the system and eliminate the need for any dead stops.

 

[no2apprentice]

Tyler, I remember in an older thread you talked about how the transformer terminals (correct term?) for the other resort stops around the lagoon in the original plans are still there along the guideways. Have you heard any more talk (ie, rumors, gossip) that would indicate WDW is still considering another lagoon resort? Wouldn't that make the current congestion on the existing system even worse?

 

[Monorail Lime]

That sounds good in theory, but unfortunately cast members are rarely operating at maximum efficiency. All too often platform cast aren’t finished opening the gates when the load doors open… there goes another 5-10 seconds. Uh oh, a fight over who gets to sit in the front cab… another 20 seconds lost. The driver leaves the train to find a bump… 20 more seconds down the tube. Even during park exits when the cast is supposed to be working the hardest this is common behavior. Arriving at the primary with a green is the exception rather than the norm.

Monorails almost never stop on the beam at Tokyo Disneyland. This could be partially due to the length of the system or the better spacing of the stops, but I think automation is really what gives them the edge. No gates to pull, no strollers to wait on, no wheelchair guests to load (the monorail floor is flush with the platform, so they can roll right on themselves), and no driver shenanigans to slow things down. When the chimes ring, the guests clear out and the doors can shut. Perfect uniform station stops every time. It is truly marvelous.

 

[plpeters70]

Originally posted by Monorail Lime
Monorails almost never stop on the beam at Tokyo Disneyland.

Those Tokyo Monorails sound amazing. You all should check out these pictures of the system on Mouseplanet: http://www.mouseplanet.com/tokyo/edwards/edwards01.htm

The pictures are towards the bottom of the page.

I love the way they have their stations setup, and I would love for any new monorail stations at WDW to be designed this way with automated trains. Just don't give us those Mickey-Covered Tokyo trains -- I prefer the futuristic look of OUR Monorails!!

 

[dmspilot00]

Originally posted by garyhoov

I have experienced the "tear drop stop" you mentioned and it is annoying. A more automated system could handle this with better pacing throughout the system and eliminate the need for any dead stops.

I agree. A well-designed automation system (when I say well-designed... I mean a system that isn't going to crash all the time ala Mark VI, and Test Track) would increase capacity at least a little, if not a lot. Plus it would seem quicker by not having holds--the trains could all "talk" to each other, and the computers would calculate how much to slow down to avoid stopping. All the trains can be syncronized to act in perfect unison.

Maybe Disney should think about eliminating the ride-up-front perk during the rushes, perhaps only allowing that from 11am to 6pm or something like that.

All Disney has to do is add some concrete to the platform and the wheelchair-bound could assist themselves.

I still like my idea of using both trains to service all the stops oppositely. If I'm going to stay in a Deluxe resort, I should be entitled to quick and "fun" transportation. Make the driving day-trippers use busses

And, I agree about the Tokyo monorails...they are ugly IMO. But the Japanese travel in trains a lot more than we do and I'm sure they probably like the unusual look. After decades, the design of the WDW monorails still looks good (to me). I especially like how the doors close flush with the body, which is one-of a kind, but... we couldn't have a station like in Tokyo... because ours swing outward instead of sliding into the wall.

 

[Invero]

Originally posted by dmspilot00
A well-designed automation system (when I say well-designed... I mean a system that isn't going to crash all the time ala Mark VI, and Test Track) would increase capacity at least a little, if not a lot. Plus it would seem quicker by not having holds--the trains could all "talk" to each other, and the computers would calculate how much to slow down to avoid stopping. All the trains can be syncronized to act in perfect unison.

Well, see, here's the thing about Automation. The typical "Automated" train still has a person on board. That person usually does control the train, to an extent. For example, the train will pull into the station, and stop automatically. Also, the doors will open automatically. At this point, the psuedo-Driver will close the doors, and then press the "Go" button on the console. So the trains are automatic, but only to a point.

For Walt Disney World, I could see a similar system to what I have described being implemented. However, you will still have the same delays. 25% of the delays are due to Cast Members, but 75% of the delays are due to Guests. Guests will switch cars at the last moment, walk alllllll the way down... and then allllllll the way back looking for the best seat... or when everyone is half on the train, and Daddy is still walking up the ramp, and they're blocking the doors, holding the train for Dad.

By having automated doors, you would cause lots of problems by separating groups, potentially closing doors on a stroller, and cutting off those running up the platform. And TRUST ME... when I tell you that the "Please stand clear of the doors, Por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas" often times goes ignored, and guests get trapped in the doors, causing them to recycle over and over. While the lil chimes might work fine everywhere else... not even a verbal audio warning, and a host on the platform screaming can convince these people, YES, those doors really are closing.

As for the 25% being cast members, that usually has to do with opening and closing of the gates. You ask, why are they not automated? Well... that's for safety reasons... They are wired for automation, however, due to pinch points, as well as the potential of the gates closing on someone, it was decided to keep them manual.

Originally posted by dmspilot00
Maybe Disney should think about eliminating the ride-up-front perk during the rushes, perhaps only allowing that from 11am to 6pm or something like that.

Riding up front doesnt add delays... and beleive me, when we do hold the cab for various reasons, we get yelled at for it.

Originally posted by dmspilot00
All Disney has to do is add some concrete to the platform and the [guest travelling with a wheelchair] could assist themselves.

Because of the doors, this couldnt work. The doors move down, and then pop out. A stupid design, if you ask me.

Originally posted by dmspilot00
I still like my idea of using both trains to service all the stops oppositely. If I'm going to stay in a Deluxe resort, I should be entitled to quick and "fun" transportation.

This wouldnt work for two reasons... First, the Resort monorail is (in theory) reserved strictly for Resort Guests. By having both monorails service all stops, you'd open that up to all the day guests bombarding both trains... Now, instead of a minimal wait for the Resort train, you have a long wait.

In addition, both the Express side platforms at the Polynesian and Grand Floridian are for emergency use only. They weren't designed to handle guest traffic, and are not wheelchair accessible.