Monorail Expansion?

JaynMACP96_97_9

New Member
Originally posted by turkey leg boy
Do you see the vision of a bankrupt Disney after expanding the monorail?

Fast forward to post-monorail-expansion. These boards filled with gripes that WDW isn't receiving any new attractions or rehabs because they spent all this money on expanding the monorail and how nobody sees why a monorail is more important than the attractions and parks.
:brick:


Here's what i think:

1) Both Tyler and disneyfan make good points and neither cancel eachother out. Tyler knows the system, and presumably knows what WDW's transportation priorities and vision is right now. But disneyfan's mantra of never saying never and it takes vision and drive to turn present day less attractive concepts into future norms is also a good argument.

2) These threads need their own section on these boards. I think any thread that deals with something like this, that isn't a passing discussion but ongoing(600 replies???) should.
 

wdwmagic

Administrator
Moderator
Premium Member
Originally posted by thedisneyfan
You may be an expert driver, but unless your the VP or AA to the VP of transportation, then I have to question your expertise about everything relating to transportation and its costs at WDW.

Tyler is by far the most knowledgeable member of this forum when it comes to Transportation at WDW. He provides valuable information to this forum on a regular basis that is based solely on fact and his personal knowledge of the practical day-to-day runnings of WDW transportation.

Everyone's opionion is welcome here, and you are certainly entitled to yours, but I would appreciate it if you would show some respect to a valued member of our forum. Thank you.
 

MKCustodial

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by leebier
I know there was a discussion about this a while back. I seem to recall the main issues were:

1) Child/Disability access. The system needs to keep moving to work and young children as well as people in Wheelchairs have trouble boarding the WEDway.

2) The WEDway system has a very low top speed which would make travelling the miles between parks slow.

3) The same fixed track problem. One car breaks down and the entire line has to stop.

On the whole, issues 1 and 2 could have creative answers through R&D investment.

As for issue 3, perhaps due to the size of the track and its (perhaps?) lower cost compared to other systems, there could be more parallel tracks w/ some sort of dynamic switching that would prevent entire streches from being down at a given time and allow other cars behind the stopped one to continue on their trip.


Leebier

I know Walt designed the PeopleMover specially for that ultimate goal, but there's always that first point of yours that comes back to mind. Now, I may be wrong, but what if you had an outside belt to load Guests before they get to the actual WEDWAY, like in the HM? Couldn't that outside belt be stopped for Guests with disabilities or who have difficulties to keep up with its speed to get on it, and then it'd catch up to the actual WEDWAY?

Does that make any sense?
 

CSOM

Member
Originally posted by thedisneyfan
I love how you keep on saying keep dreaming and that it will never be done....thankfully at least one man did dream and got past all of those people who always said the very same things! Of course, if you had your way we wouldn't be here because WDW or Disneyland would never be here without these dreams and someone who had the guts and the persistance to say that it can and will be done! Sorry, if your half-truths aren't good enough for me to buy into the notion that no expansion of the monorail will ever be done or ever be feasible...well, too bad. Keep on denyin'....

Why are you so adamant about this to this board? Tyler or Steve or no one else here is the descision making authority. Your arguments aren't going to magically make them happen. I'm not trying to be rude, just trying to understand.

No one is shooting down your ideas because we don't want to see the Monorail expanded, because I think everyone on here does, but it just doesn't make any sense logistically, even if you throw out the cost factor, which is what you are implying with the Walt comparison.

As for the vision argument, where do vision and progress involve 30 year old inflexible technology? Shouldn't we be arguing about what the next method of transportation that will work should be, rather than argue about the merits of 2 aging and flawed systems? Both the Monorail and the Bus system have flaws..... maybe we can get to work with XS-Tech getting transporters in every resort room that would place you right at the gate of your next destination....:D
 

leebier

New Member
Originally posted by thedisneyfan
Speaking of using brains, I guess that you can't see that the traffic situation as getting worse and worse each year as more parks, more resorts, and more visitors are added to WDW. I guess you just envision the buses growing wings and getting past all of this increased traffic. You and others keep mentioning all of the delays with the possibility of transfers with the monorail (despite the fact that some system could be worked on or worked out), yet you always seem to neglect all of the delays and stops, and additional stops that the buses make as they pick up from several stops or several resorts as well, as they stop at all of the stop signs to and from the resort to and from the theme park, etc. Meanwhile the monorail bypasses all of these traffic lights, stop signs, and additional motor vehicle traffic. But I guess that you were too busy using your brains while riding your ferrari to notice all of these things that a normal person could see! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Even with all the traffic, taking a bus is still faster than any conceived monorail idea. Even with stoplights, stopsigns, too many cars, and occasional accidents, it doesnt' take more than 20 minutes to get between just about any two points in WDW.

But you ARE correct in that these delays are why a new, better system is desired. No one here is arguing that buses are the best long term solution. No one here is arguing that they LOVE the buses. However, the buses are the best availible solution at the moment.

The right transportation solution in the long term will ideally miss the stoplights, stopsigns, and general congestion of car traffic.

Intuitively, some sort of WEDway variant seems like a neat and possibly feasible idea. The child/disability access issue could have numerous creative solutions, some of which have already been discussed. I have no doubt that a good solution to the problem exists.

The key is the fixed track problem. Either someone needs some sort of creative (and not unsightly) solution to laying many parallel tracks, or to come up with a wheeled version that can run on special roads or something to that effect.

If a WEDway-type system can work, I think it's a wonderful idea. It has lots of room for innovation, has the possibility of being magical, AND will have been born from the head of Walt Himself. It's been a while since I read the PRT stuff, but perhaps smallish PRTs that combine PRT and WEDway might be a good starting point?


Remember, the monorail and the rest of Walt's ideas were about dreaming about the future, not technologies from the past.


Leebier
 

bamboo7

Active Member
Originally posted by wdwmagic
Tyler is by far the most knowledgeable member of this forum when it comes to Transportation at WDW. He provides valuable information to this forum on a regular basis that is based solely on fact and his personal knowledge of the practical day-to-day runnings of WDW transportation.

Everyone's opionion is welcome here, and you are certainly entitled to yours, but I would appreciate it if you would show some respect to a valued member of our forum. Thank you.

Well Said. :sohappy:

Tyler Knows What He Is Talking About.
Everything He Has Said, Every Point He Makes On This Topic Is Accurate.

He IS A Transportation EXPERT.

Lets All Just Keep An Open Mind While Thinking Logically.

(BTW - I'm Glad This Thread Was Re-Surfaced. I Never Get Tired Of This One!)
 

Invero

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by bamboo7
Well Said. :sohappy:

Tyler Knows What He Is Talking About.
Everything He Has Said, Every Point He Makes On This Topic Is Accurate.

He IS A Transportation EXPERT.

Lets All Just Keep An Open Mind While Thinking Logically.

(BTW - I'm Glad This Thread Was Re-Surfaced. I Never Get Tired Of This One!)

Well, I wouldn't call myself an "Expert" in the way of a Civil Engineer (I'm working on it), but I do consider myself extremely knowledgeable about Disney Transportation and how it all works and comes together. So perhaps, in that manner.

As for this thread... I need some spackle. My poor wall has a dent in it, right about head level. Hrmm... wonder why? LOL
 

no2apprentice

Well-Known Member
I LOVE the buses!!!! ...over walking. :D

Sorry, just had to do that. Nice post, leebier. Good points.

I was thinking about a WEDway system (of which I do not even pretend to know the workings), and maybe those who are more familiar than I can answer some questions...

Speed - Isn't this system rather slow? I know the speed is minimal so people can see the attractions they are passing through in MK, but is this design condusive to faster speeds needed to transport people in a timely manner over the whole property?

Structure - To go around the property, it would need to be enclosed with climate control, increasing size and weight, thereby increasing the need for more power, thereby affecting size and weight. Would this be workable for a large transport area like WDW?

Layout - To keep the cost minimal for any type of track system, it would have to be ground level with bridge crossovers for the existing roads. Or would an above ground track be far less expensive due to less weight than a monorail?
 

scotty_l

New Member
Originally posted by wdwmagic
Tyler is by far the most knowledgeable member of this forum when it comes to Transportation at WDW. He provides valuable information to this forum on a regular basis that is based solely on fact and his personal knowledge of the practical day-to-day runnings of WDW transportation.

Everyone's opionion is welcome here, and you are certainly entitled to yours, but I would appreciate it if you would show some respect to a valued member of our forum. Thank you.

Very well put..... Tyler is extremly well versed on Transportation operations and I have heard that from several of his fellow cast members. One a monorail central coordinator....

Myself a former railee have only knowledge of the past. I am very grateful that he provides information on the current WDW transportation situation whether I agree or not with his views on the value of buses.

The whole notion of Monorail Expansion is MONEY!!! Plan and simple does the marketing value of the Monorail justify the need and I say again need for additional transportation options. Look at Disneyland, they modified the beam almost 30 years after the last change.

We all agree something must be done...The answer is not adding an additional 71 buses..sorry Tyler...

The answer can be simple and could be very Disney...Look at the theming of every area and make the modifications. The Monorail works because it passes through the Contemporary and travels to EPCOT. Watercraft works when you can transport from one MK resort or EC resort to another because the theming fits. Why not look at a Trolley car systems, simple light rail, peoplemover, moving walkways (such as Universal Studios and Vegas) or even Jetboat ferry service(Current Firendship service does not cut it) from the studios to EC some of these are far fetched,

These differences could be more affordable than an all out Monorail expansion. But the powers that be want that to happen. The reinstitution of the transportation charge to the ticket as well as the resort hotel surcharge (Disney taxes) could help.
 

GenerationX

Well-Known Member
Okay, so my idea back on page 6 or 7 of this thread about giant slingshots and nets never caught on with Disney execs. I'm not discouraged. I've got an even better idea - non-polluting, low-cost maintenance, high flexibility - and the best part is that Disney already owns the fleet! Here are the details:

You know how when you ride the Kilimanjaro Safaris you don't get to see all of the animals. While the hams and the divas of the elephant world are ready to pose for your pictures, the more reserved ones are out of sight. This is what we do: buy saddles for those camera-shy animals. And where we can't fit a saddle, we find a harness and a wagon to pull.

Let's examine some possibilities:

Elephants - Heck, we could fit about as many people on an elephant as we could on a bus or even three monorail cars!

Giraffes - What guest wouldn't wanted to ride with their family on a giraffe?

Lions - Talk about a combination "mode of transportation"/"thrill ride" ... this is the ultimate.

Busses?
Hah!
Monorails?
Pffft!!
Boats?
Nuh-uh!!!

TRANimals is the only way to go!
 

TURKEY

New Member
Originally posted by GenerationX
Okay, so my idea back on page 6 or 7 of this thread about giant slingshots and nets never caught on with Disney execs. I'm not discouraged. I've got an even better idea - non-polluting, low-cost maintenance, high flexibility - and the best part is that Disney already owns the fleet! Here are the details:

You know how when you ride the Kilimanjaro Safaris you don't get to see all of the animals. While the hams and the divas of the elephant world are ready to pose for your pictures, the more reserved ones are out of sight. This is what we do: buy saddles for those camera-shy animals. And where we can't fit a saddle, we find a harness and a wagon to pull.

Let's examine some possibilities:

Elephants - Heck, we could fit about as many people on an elephant as we could on a bus or even three monorail cars!

Giraffes - What guest wouldn't wanted to ride with their family on a giraffe?

Lions - Talk about a combination "mode of transportation"/"thrill ride" ... this is the ultimate.

Busses?
Hah!
Monorails?
Pffft!!
Boats?
Nuh-uh!!!

TRANimals is the only way to go!


:lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Originally posted by Invero

As for this thread... I need some spackle. My poor wall has a dent in it, right about head level. Hrmm... wonder why? LOL

Ok well let's see if we can punch through that wall. Here are a few more thoughts about the virtues of Monorail Expansion.....








Just Kidding! :lol: :lol: :lol:


For now!:lol:
 

Herbie53

Premium Member
Originally posted by thedisneyfan
Speaking of using brains, I guess that you can't see that the traffic situation as getting worse and worse each year as more parks, more resorts, and more visitors are added to WDW. I guess you just envision the buses growing wings and getting past all of this increased traffic. You and others keep mentioning all of the delays with the possibility of transfers with the monorail (despite the fact that some system could be worked on or worked out), yet you always seem to neglect all of the delays and stops, and additional stops that the buses make as they pick up from several stops or several resorts as well, as they stop at all of the stop signs to and from the resort to and from the theme park, etc. Meanwhile the monorail bypasses all of these traffic lights, stop signs, and additional motor vehicle traffic. But I guess that you were too busy using your brains while riding your ferrari to notice all of these things that a normal person could see! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I think we may have accidentally hit on the solution. Flying Buses!!:lol:

Disneyfan mentioned thinking outside the box before, using vision and progress. Expanding the monorail does not do that. The conversation here is stuck on track or no track. Monorails are just cool trains. In the 21st century there is nothng innovative about a monorail. I haven't read this thread all the way through since it began a year or so ago, so forgive me if I can't remember everything that has been mentioned, but I have to say (joking aside) that the idea of having buses with wings is the first concept I have noticed (slingshot excluded) which does not already exist somewhere in the world. I know Disneyfan was not serious, but that's thinking outside the box!

If anybody is going to talk about progress, or having vision, or being daring enough to dream, they'll have to look far beyond anything that exists today. Using the term "flying bus" makes the concept comical, but what if I called it a "free roaming, short range, low altitude aerial transport unit"? Now you're on your way! Just think of a catchy name and then design something that works. Necessity is the mother of all invention. The answer to WDW transportation woes does not exist yet.

I know I'm speaking in farfetched and fecetious terms, but you get the idea. :D
 
Originally posted by Invero
Purchase price of one Nova LFS averages around $315,000. Multiply that by 71, and you get around $22m. We are leasing, not buying, so our initial investment will be much less. Should we choose to purchase them at the end of the lease, our total cost will probably be slightly more than $22m. However, as I've stated before, one six-car MVI train would cost an approx $25m.

As for maintenance and upkeep, monorails are very expensive to run and maintain. Diesel buses by comparison are dirt cheap (when comparing equal capacity units) Of course, when you compare 71 to 1, then of course the buses will be more expensive.


wow I never would have guessed those busses would costs $315,000. I guess my estimate on a monorail would buy about 1 car maybe in a monorail used. very intresting.

I'd also like to say that you don't have to be a vp to be a expert at transportation.
 

bryon1

New Member
I agree all around...However look at the rail expansion in Vegas. All paid for by bonds from Casinos, one way trip from MGM Grand to Saraha is about $5.00 (to run the rail). I would pay $10.00 to cover a 7 day rail pass to upgrade the ENTIRE resort.

The rails would have to stop at just the lobby areas then to a massive routing hub. Hotels could then run a tram or elect. carts to the bus stops.

Looking at the MK/resort/TTC it would have to be done the same way with resorts. Say Carrib./Bch.&Yat/Brdwlk/Swan then to the TTC then pick your Park. Yeah a few transfers but I think its better than waiting for bus for 30-45 min.

Also what will WDW do when the supposed bullet train gets approval? Would you get off of the train from MCO(Orlando Airport) to wait for bus!!!??

As one crosses the different colored asphalt and the purple signs onto property, WDW has the responsibility (esecially if your at a resort) to move its guests quickly. Yeah there were only 3 hotels when EPCOT was built but it was that future looking to provide the transportation to the ENTIRE resort.

What a better reason to be able to use the tag line..."the first daily operating monorail in western hemisphere (D/L)" To get even more people on property it should be changed to "the first daily operating MAGLEV in western hemisphere"!!

just my 2 cents
bryon1
 

Invero

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by bryon1
Yeah a few transfers but I think its better than waiting for bus for 30-45 min.

I can GUARANTEE you that guests would rather wait for a bus, than go through a transfer or two involving a monorail.

Figure it this way... in the morning, you'll have long lines for the "internal" tram... then you'll have more lines for the Monorail that comes to the Resort. Then you'll have to transfer to a different monorail to get to the MK. More lines. Same thing in reverse when going home.

And as for waiting for a bus... the typical morning interval is 10-20 minutes.
 

TURKEY

New Member
Originally posted by bryon1
I agree all around...However look at the rail expansion in Vegas. All paid for by bonds from Casinos, one way trip from MGM Grand to Saraha is about $5.00 (to run the rail). I would pay $10.00 to cover a 7 day rail pass to upgrade the ENTIRE resort.

Also what will WDW do when the supposed bullet train gets approval? Would you get off of the train from MCO(Orlando Airport) to wait for bus!!!??


I think that it would cost more than $10 to cover a 7 day pass, with the amount of additions it would take. After all, Disney will want to start making profit ASAP rather than drag out the payment of debt over a longer period.

I'm not sure that a bullet train from MCO to WDW will ever be built. I think that a rail system just connecting the major cities will be more likely.
 

ImagineerFan04

New Member
Originally posted by GenerationX
Okay, so my idea back on page 6 or 7 of this thread about giant slingshots and nets never caught on with Disney execs. I'm not discouraged. I've got an even better idea - non-polluting, low-cost maintenance, high flexibility - and the best part is that Disney already owns the fleet! Here are the details:

You know how when you ride the Kilimanjaro Safaris you don't get to see all of the animals. While the hams and the divas of the elephant world are ready to pose for your pictures, the more reserved ones are out of sight. This is what we do: buy saddles for those camera-shy animals. And where we can't fit a saddle, we find a harness and a wagon to pull.

Let's examine some possibilities:

Elephants - Heck, we could fit about as many people on an elephant as we could on a bus or even three monorail cars!

Giraffes - What guest wouldn't wanted to ride with their family on a giraffe?

Lions - Talk about a combination "mode of transportation"/"thrill ride" ... this is the ultimate.

Busses?
Hah!
Monorails?
Pffft!!
Boats?
Nuh-uh!!!

TRANimals is the only way to go!

:lol: :lol: you're a funny person generationX:lol: :lol:
 

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