Monorail Expansion?

[WDW Imagineer]

Originally posted by Fantasia Boi


As for the 25% being cast members, that usually has to do with opening and closing of the gates. You ask, why are they not automated? Well... that's for safety reasons... They are wired for automation, however, due to pinch points, as well as the potential of the gates closing on someone, it was decided to keep them manual.

Would it help maybe if they did something similar to the air gates that they are using at the park attractions now or would they encounter the same problems.

I also agree that the ways the doors open and close can be a pain they should have made them more like sliding doors on the sides of minivans.

 

[Invero]

Originally posted by WDW Imagineer
Would it help maybe if they did something similar to the air gates that they are using at the park attractions now or would they encounter the same problems.

Well... they'd have to swing out... and be pretty large... not sure if that's quite possible... In addition, if it were possible, they'd have to enlarge the platform at the MK Monorail station, which is something we've been trying to get done for the past 20 years...

 

[jmarc63]

Originally posted by Fantasia Boi

... In addition, if it were possible, they'd have to enlarge the platform at the MK Monorail station, which is something we've been trying to get done for the past 20 years...

Hey Tyler whats the reason for this?

please describe what you think they need to do and how will they expand the existing platform in relation to the way it is now.


The reason I ask is since it is a center station as opposed to the Poly or GF which are side stations isn't the contempoary station somewhat "landlocked" to change much. you cant move the beams since the supports for them go thru the building to the foundations under the building. I am curious

 

[Monorail Lime]

During MK closings a "Super Queue" system is set up. Ropes are set up outside the station so that the line forms near the park exit. This way thousands of people can be in line at a time. If the line didn't form until the bottom of the ramp, there would be mass chaos!

Obviously this isn't the ideal solution, since setting up and tearing down the poles every night is quite a bit of work and they aren't very good show. If the station were bigger more guests could wait inside. A permanent queue could be used and there would be a roof over more heads if it happens to rain.

Since the center is for unloading and the outer platforms are for loading, the load portion of the station could be expanded without moving the beamway. Of course, the IDEAL solution would be to tear that dump down and build a totally new one...

 

[jmarc63]

Originally posted by Monorail Lime
......since setting up and tearing down the poles every night is quite a bit of work and they aren't very good show.

What do you mean be "aren't very good show" This doesn't make sense to me since every attraction has holes stratigicly placed outside every attractions Queue that have a spring loaded covers on them for stancions to be inserted into them, these are used to allow the queue to overflow form the existing queue and usually are placed in the main pathways. and connect up with the queue area for that attraction. If they didn't do this just becaused it looked bad then there would be caos at every ride at peak times and alll the time at E-Tickets. BTW it about a miniute ot two to setup a dozen or so of the stancions and the ropes since they have a cart that they wheel out to where they have to set up. and every land had there own style of stancion to match the area. So if I am to understand you then every attraction would have to be torn down to allow for a queue large enough so they wont have to set up stancions for a "super queue" as you call it because it is bad show..:hammer: :hammer:

 

[Invero]

Originally posted by jmarc63
What do you mean be "aren't very good show" This doesn't make sense to me since every attraction has holes stratigicly placed outside every attractions Queue that have a spring loaded covers on them for stancions to be inserted into them, these are used to allow the queue to overflow form the existing queue and usually are placed in the main pathways. and connect up with the queue area for that attraction.

Yes, attractions do have a few poles set up for an extra queue line, however, they do not come close to the size or complexity of the monorail "Super Queue." The monorail Super Queue extends from the bottom of the Express ramp, and zig zags, covering most of the west side entrance. This is why it is called the SUPER queue, because it is so large, and can hold 5,000-8,000 guests. Most ride queue extensions only hold a few hundred.

Originally posted by jmarc63
BTW it about a miniute ot two to setup a dozen or so of the stancions and the ropes since they have a cart that they wheel out to where they have to set up.

Not quite... even with an experienced person, it takes a good half hour to set up the Super Queue.


By the way... the reason I say that they need to expand the MK Monorail station is that it was originally designed to be loaded up the center, and exit down the sides, very much like the TTC. However, this was quickly changed over during the 70's when they found that it wouldn't work at the MK. The sides of the station are not nearly large enough to handle the crowds that go through it at night. A train can hold 300-350 people. The platform holds about 275. If you've ever been there, you know it's like herding cattle... trying to get people to move alllll the way down, and trying to get as many people crammed on the platform as possible. Often times, someone will be too stubborn/lazy, and refuses to move all the way down, thus blocking traffic. This means that cars 3 and 4 will be jam packed, and car 2 will be medium, and car 1 will have room for at least 20 more.

Now, compare that to the Epcot platform... Epcot's platform is large, and spacious. The internal queue line gets split midway down the ramp, and then angled over, so that guests can enter the platform at car 2 and car 5... thus eliminating the "All the way down!!!" problem. The gates are much larger, and don't require guests to be shoulder to shoulder....

 

[Monorail Lime]

It's hard to compare the attractions to the monorail because the attractions don't get 10000+ guests at once!

The rope and pole stanchion system for MK park closings is bad show because of the huge number of people that use it. When hundreds of tired, sweaty, irritable people all cram themselves within an arms reach of one another the formation of Magical Memories is not the likely outcome. Kids get bored and swing from the ropes, babies get bored and scream, adults get bored and curse Walt Disney's grave, and the monorail cast members (irritated that they are on the ground rather than in a train) get bored and let the guests fend for themselves. When guests finally do reach the top of the ramp they are tired of being treated like cattle and some become quite rude. If everyone had a little more breathing room and were inside a well lit station possibly with some sort of entertainment everyone would leave in a much happier state.

Maintenance is a factor as well. Unlike the nice shiny poles with chain barriers that some attractions have, the Magic Kingdom stanchions are in deplorable shape. Some poles appear to be several colors due to guests scratching of the various layers of paint. The ropes are sagging and dirty, which is to be expected when little kids swing on them all night long. A lot of the poles don't stand up straight and even move around to a slight degree since the holes were drilled so badly. Safety should be a concern as well. If someone pulls a pole out of the ground (either deliberately or accidentally) and it comes down on a small kid it could do serious damage.

The current queue system gets the job done but with a new station everyone could leave the park in a much better mood.


EDIT: Sorry about the repitition, Tyler's post wasn't there when I started! I should've typed faster.

 

[dreamer]

Sometimes all one can say about riding the monorail is

"moo"

 

[jmarc63]

Originally posted by Fantasia Boi

Yes, attractions do have a few poles set up for an extra queue line, however, they do not come close to the size or complexity of the monorail "Super Queue." The monorail Super Queue extends from the bottom of the Express ramp, and zig zags, covering most of the west side entrance. This is why it is called the SUPER queue, because it is so large, and can hold 5,000-8,000 guests. Most ride queue extensions only hold a few hundred.

I had not realized that that the line had grown to such porportions since I was last there. I wasn't always that long back in the day.

Not quite... even with an experienced person, it takes a good half hour to set up the Super Queue.[/b]

I was refering to the attraction queue

By the way... the reason I say that they need to expand the MK Monorail station is that it was originally designed to be loaded up the center, and exit down the sides, very much like the TTC. However, this was quickly changed over during the 70's when they found that it wouldn't work at the MK. The sides of the station are not nearly large enough to handle the crowds that go through it at night. A train can hold 300-350 people. The platform holds about 275. If you've ever been there, you know it's like herding cattle... trying to get people to move alllll the way down, and trying to get as many people crammed on the platform as possible. Often times, someone will be too stubborn/lazy, and refuses to move all the way down, thus blocking traffic. This means that cars 3 and 4 will be jam packed, and car 2 will be medium, and car 1 will have room for at least 20 more. [/b]

I dont think this was changed until verry late in the 70s since on every trip toWDW from 71 - 79 that I recall youwould enter from the center and exit from the side. I guess i did notice this in 93 but didn't realize it till after we left.

Now, compare that to the Epcot platform... Epcot's platform is large, and spacious. The internal queue line gets split midway down the ramp, and then angled over, so that guests can enter the platform at car 2 and car 5... thus eliminating the "All the way down!!!" problem. The gates are much larger, and don't require guests to be shoulder to shoulder.... [/B]

I happen to have a blueprint that I found in the trash while working at Kraft who was the original sponsor for the land pavilion. This has a date of 1979 and is refered to plan 8
and it seems to indicate a large platform on each side of the both beams instead on just the one after you come around the teardrop. It also seeems to indicate an extention comming off the teardrop on the east side of it and passing thru between a then planed Space pavilion( where Horizions was built) and the World of Motion pavilion. SoI suspect that the larger station at EPCOT was for that purpose as well as what they might of realized was an undersized station at MK

 

[jmarc63]

Originally posted by Monorail Lime
It's hard to compare the attractions to the monorail because the attractions don't get 10000+ guests at once!

The rope and pole stanchion system for MK park closings is bad show because of the huge number of people that use it. When hundreds of tired, sweaty, irritable people all cram themselves within an arms reach of one another the formation of Magical Memories is not the likely outcome. Kids get bored and swing from the ropes, babies get bored and scream, adults get bored and curse Walt Disney's grave, and the monorail cast members (irritated that they are on the ground rather than in a train) get bored and let the guests fend for themselves. When guests finally do reach the top of the ramp they are tired of being treated like cattle and some become quite rude. If everyone had a little more breathing room and were inside a well lit station possibly with some sort of entertainment everyone would leave in a much happier state.

Maintenance is a factor as well. Unlike the nice shiny poles with chain barriers that some attractions have, the Magic Kingdom stanchions are in deplorable shape. Some poles appear to be several colors due to guests scratching of the various layers of paint. The ropes are sagging and dirty, which is to be expected when little kids swing on them all night long. A lot of the poles don't stand up straight and even move around to a slight degree since the holes were drilled so badly. Safety should be a concern as well. If someone pulls a pole out of the ground (either deliberately or accidentally) and it comes down on a small kid it could do serious damage.

The current queue system gets the job done but with a new station everyone could leave the park in a much better mood.


EDIT: Sorry about the repitition, Tyler's post wasn't there when I started! I should've typed faster.

Well some of the "bad show" is in my opinion a mantience/upkeep issue. this is starting to irk me that they dont take care of these problems right away like they used to

 

[indigo]

Far be it for me to open up another can of worms, but what about a modified peoplemover system.

There are cities that have a people mover system where the passengers can control the destination of the car.

the WDW guest might be able to load up at the TTC and select DTD as their final destination. The car would then select a route that will get the passengers to DTD the fastest. Each destination would eventually have multiple routes to reach it, so if one route was down, the cars could be redirected.

The advantage of this system is it can start small (say between three reasonably close destinations and expand outward over time.

 

[Monorail Lime]

Originally posted by indigo
Far be it for me to open up another can of worms, but what about a modified peoplemover system.

That's a good idea, but we covered it several pages ago. This thread is getting way too long, maybe it's time to start some new ones and abandon ship!

 

[jmarc63]

Originally posted by indigo
Far be it for me to open up another can of worms, but what about a modified peoplemover system.

There are cities that have a people mover system where the passengers can control the destination of the car.

the WDW guest might be able to load up at the TTC and select DTD as their final destination. The car would then select a route that will get the passengers to DTD the fastest. Each destination would eventually have multiple routes to reach it, so if one route was down, the cars could be redirected.

The advantage of this system is it can start small (say between three reasonably close destinations and expand outward over time.

That is an option that has been rumored to have been considered by Disney, but there nothing concreat on anything that is happening with any expansion of the transportation system at this time

 

[jmarc63]

Bad Show

Heres what I consider a Bad show. aparrently they outsourced the painting and to get a low bid they had to do the work durring the day.

 

[bamboo7]

Re: Bad Show

Originally posted by jmarc63
Heres what I consider a Bad show. aparrently they outsourced the painting and to get a low bid they had to do the work durring the day.

was that picture taken during park hours? the reason i ask is because i don't see a single guest in it. could it be possable that the picture is from early in the morning, before the park opened? if it is from when the park is open, it would be a little dissapointing. i agree that those things should be taken care of when guests are not around.

 

[leebier]

We're straying off-topic here, but if that's the picture I think it is, then it was while the park was opened. For more on "bad show" go to www.wdwblues.com. The site keeps track of things at WDW that badly need rehab or are "bad show." The site does it, not to be anti-Disney, but because they want WDW to be perfect and hope to bring attention to fixing the problems. They don't update too often, but it's a very interesting site.

Anyway, back to transportation!

Lee

 

[jmarc63]

Re: Re: Bad Show

Originally posted by bamboo7


was that picture taken during park hours? the reason i ask is because i don't see a single guest in it. could it be possable that the picture is from early in the morning, before the park opened? if it is from when the park is open, it would be a little dissapointing. i agree that those things should be taken care of when guests are not around.

Yes it was here is another long shot.

 

[Monorail Lime]

Some painting has to be done during the daytime; otherwise there isn't enough heat and light for the paint to set properly. It looks like they might be working on some of the metal parts of the Alien Encounter facade. The paint they use on metal is especially sensitive to painting conditions, which is why you’ll see them painting some handrails during the day.

 

[cymbaldiva]

I definately don't think Walt would approve...Very Bad Show!!

 

[jmarc63]

Originally posted by cymbaldiva
I definately don't think Walt would approve...Very Bad Show!!

I totaly agree with you on that cymbaldiva