Monorail Expansion?

plpeters70

New Member
Originally posted by mlnance
I would think by 2012 everyone's going to be sick of buses. I guess what I am having a hard time grasping is how the bus system will be able to hold up once more resorts (on WDW resort property) get built, plus one or two new parks get added on WDW property.

This isn't an answer to your question, but I really, really hope that by 2012 they haven't added two more theme parks. WDW can hardly fill 4 as it is - imagine if there were 6!! I really hope they wait at least 10 - 15 years before they even think about adding a new park!!
 

Invero

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by plpeters70
Would they actually HAVE to be enclosed -- why not just build it like the Tomorrowland system - with a roof?? I've never found myself to hot on the one at Tomorrowland, and I think the only air-conditioned area is Space Mountain.
I would say that yes, enclosed would be preferable. During the summer, we can have downpours with winds, and I think guests would prefer to stay dry. Not to mention, during days of extreme heat and chill... the climate control of an enclosed vehicle to transport them is much appreciated.




Originally posted by plpeters70
Good point. I wonder if they could construct a few cars that have spaces for wheelchairs and other vehicles? These things move so slowly in the stations that it might be possible to just drive one up a little ramp and onto the peoplemover.
While, yes, in some situations that might be feasible, I doubt it'd be very safe. Especially in the age of the Lawsuit. There are some guests that have a hard enough time maneuvering into a stationary monorail, never mind onto a moving platform, then onto another vehicle. If they could actually stop the vehicle, it would be better.
 

plpeters70

New Member
Originally posted by Fantasia Boi
While, yes, in some situations that might be feasible, I doubt it'd be very safe. Especially in the age of the Lawsuit. There are some guests that have a hard enough time maneuvering into a stationary monorail, never mind onto a moving platform, then onto another vehicle. If they could actually stop the vehicle, it would be better.

You're probably right, but I have a solution for you!! :) The speedway and the vehicles are moving at the same speed, so as long as the wheelchair is lined up with the "ramp", they could easily move up into the vehicle. Now the problem is getting the wheelchair lined up properly with the vehicle - and that's where my idea comes in.

Let's say that on the speedramp is a turntable that can move in a circle. The wheelchair would be pushed onto this turntable by a castmember. Then the turntable turns and lines the wheelchair up with the ramp. At that point, the wheelchair gets pushed into the vehicle, and another turntable turns the wheelchair forward. The same thing would happen at unload - only reversed. The transitions would have to be done by the castmembers for safety reasons.

This could definitely be done with today's technology - it would just require some clever timing of the speedways and the peoplemover vehicles so that they would be lined up correctly. In fact, now that I think about it, this sort of technology could be used on Omnimover-type rides so that they would never (or almost never) have to stop the ride. All they would need would be a few well placed wheelchair accessable vehicles. The only stipulation is that the ride would have to be on one level - or they would need more advanced restraints to hold the passenger in the wheelchairs when the vehicles are changing levels.
 

jmarc63

New Member
Originally posted by Fantasia Boi


I've seen that video before... keep in mind, that transportation system that Walt was invisioning was for a CITY... and not a Theme Park. They are completly opposite when it comes to passenger traffic flow.

For example, Walt had it so that you took the People Mover to the Monorail, and the Monorail into the industrial area or theme park, to go to work.

Let's see how that might work here at WDW. We'll take Caribbean Beach. The WEDWAY People Mover would circulate through CBR, and then onto a main transportation Hub that would take folks to one of the theme parks. Now, in the morning, there is a constant flow of traffic going into the parks. As such, even a continuous system like the WEDWAY, it would fill up. If the system travels through seven stations, and I'm near the last station, I'll never get an empty people mover.

It would be hard to "Reserve" WEDWAY cars... guests at previous stops will get upset that they're not allowed to board an empty car. They don't understand why you're holding it. Something simmilar happens at night for Monorails. When the park closes at 8pm or whatnot... the Resort Monorail gets busy as folks want to get back to thier resort. However, at the same time, at the Contemporary, they are getting busy with the Dinner Exit. So guests at the Contemporary will recieve fully loaded trains, with no room to put the dinner guests.

What will commonly be done, is we will not open the doors for cars 5 and 6 at the MK... and guests will complain "why can't we get into the empty car"... It's the lesser of the two evils.

Well Isn't WDW/Readdy Creek a city in a sense with people communiting from one place to another, and the opening and closing of the parks like rush hour in a sense? There is no perfect soloution here.
 

jmarc63

New Member
Originally posted by Fantasia Boi


Umm... I can guarantee you that would not work in Riverside, Old Key West, Coronado Springs, and Caribbean Beach.

Well just to you know that i had considered that, and I stayed at CBR on my last trip there.
 

jmarc63

New Member
Originally posted by plpeters70


You're probably right, but I have a solution for you!! :) The speedway and the vehicles are moving at the same speed, so as long as the wheelchair is lined up with the "ramp", they could easily move up into the vehicle. Now the problem is getting the wheelchair lined up properly with the vehicle - and that's where my idea comes in.

Let's say that on the speedramp is a turntable that can move in a circle. The wheelchair would be pushed onto this turntable by a castmember. Then the turntable turns and lines the wheelchair up with the ramp. At that point, the wheelchair gets pushed into the vehicle, and another turntable turns the wheelchair forward. The same thing would happen at unload - only reversed. The transitions would have to be done by the castmembers for safety reasons.

This could definitely be done with today's technology - it would just require some clever timing of the speedways and the peoplemover vehicles so that they would be lined up correctly. In fact, now that I think about it, this sort of technology could be used on Omnimover-type rides so that they would never (or almost never) have to stop the ride. All they would need would be a few well placed wheelchair accessable vehicles. The only stipulation is that the ride would have to be on one level - or they would need more advanced restraints to hold the passenger in the wheelchairs when the vehicles are changing levels.

It sounds like a good soloution on paper, but I think the realities of logistics and human behavior make it a problematic situation.
 

cymbaldiva

Active Member
Wow this thread has gotten complicated!

I suppose I'm not the average WDW guest either...I'll wait past several monorails and be happy about it to get to ride up front :) ...
 

leebier

New Member
Fantasia Boi- just wanted to let you know that all of us out here aren't attacking you. I for one know I've been sold on why monorails aren't the answer.
I say that with a frown; growing up, the monorail was the embodyment of the magic of WDW. I LOVED the monorails, and on my trip this past May, I made my friends ride the Epcot-TTC loop with me because I couldn't go to WDW without riding a monorail.

Anyway... we love the monorails but understand why they aren't the answer. The question i have for you is:

Is there at least somewhere, behind three dozen security doors, where they are working on some cool, new, and efficient form of transportation?

I know that even should such a place exist, you wouldn't know what the plans are or anything like that. I am just curious if Disney even acknowledges that it needs something better for sometime in the future, and further understand that the new system should be as cool as possible?

Hopefully by the time I have a child, there will be some new sort of transportation and Future World will have been updated away from being painfully 80's (hey, i love future world and the 80's, but it does have to move SOME to stay "Future" world) so s/he can feel the same sense of wonder at Epcot I remember growing up.

Lee
 

plpeters70

New Member
Originally posted by jmarc63


It sounds like a good soloution on paper, but I think the realities of logistics and human behavior make it a problematic situation.

You're probably right, but it sounded pretty cool. I've always thought that they needed to come up with some way to get handicapped guests on the attractions without having to stop the rides, and this was one solution I came up with. Perhaps someday... :)
 

plpeters70

New Member
Originally posted by jmarc63
The coolest idea is still Science fiction but I would find a transporter pretty cool

Me too!!! Maybe Disney should devote some R&D to making THAT dream a reality!! :D

Anyone know where they can hire a few good physicists??? :lol:
 

leebier

New Member
Transporters

Actually, scientists are on their way... there was a story a few weeks back about how scientists have been able to transport molecules a few meters. I believe the basic idea was that they overcame the uncertainty principle using the concept of "entanglement," which as i understand it, allows the scientists to not have to worry about knowing the exact location or velocity of a particle since it all "just comes out in the wash anyway."

We're still years (decades likely) away from being able to do anything much further than across a room and moving to macroscopic particles will be another large step. But maybe for the 500 years of magic celebration :).

Wow, lotta science to remember for a Marketing and Econ major. :)

Lee
 

DDPGambit

Member
As much as I love the Monorails, I love the busses as well.
They are as much a part of the Disney experience as monorails. Call me crazy, but one of the things that really lets me know im in Disney is riding on a bus, late at night, coming back from a theme park. I don't know why. I also tend to day dream alot on those late night busses, it's like a combination of dozing off and day dreaming.
One thing I like about the busses, they hardly ever have to stop at stop lights. They seem to just hit all green lights. Either that or the drivers keep running red lights!
 

Invero

Well-Known Member
Argh... something went wrong last night, and my reply was lost. Hate it when that happens! :)

Originally posted by plpeters70
Let's say that on the speedramp is a turntable that can move in a circle. The wheelchair would be pushed onto this turntable by a castmember. Then the turntable turns and lines the wheelchair up with the ramp. At that point, the wheelchair gets pushed into the vehicle, and another turntable turns the wheelchair forward. The same thing would happen at unload - only reversed. The transitions would have to be done by the castmembers for safety reasons.

While it's a good idea... unfortunetly, its and injury/lawsuit just waiting to happen. Each wheelchair is vastly different from the next. Most electric wheelchairs are custom made, and can sometimes cost $10,000. Driving a 3 or 4 wheeled manual or electric wheelchair from a stationary ground to a moving platform just wouldn't work. Also, some guests require more time to maneuver than others. We have a lot of guests using rented scooters, and they usually have trouble driving those things.

I know this sounds crazy, but in addition, as Cast Members, we are not allowed to assist them up the ramp (unless specifically asked) and we're also not supposed to touch thier wheelchair (unless strapping it in the bus). This is for liability reasons.

Again, its a good idea... but in the days of the lawsuit... it wouldnt work out... :(
 

Invero

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by leebier
Fantasia Boi- just wanted to let you know that all of us out here aren't attacking you.
hehe.. I don't think anyone is attacking anyone in this discussion. Actually, I'm quite amazed... This has been a WONDERFUL discussion, everyone is sharing their own opinions and beleifs, and ideas, and suggestions... This is EXACTLY what a discussion forum such as WDWMagic is for! It's amazing how complex the discussion can get, huh? :D


Originally posted by leebier
I for one know I've been sold on why monorails aren't the answer. I say that with a frown; growing up, the monorail was the embodyment of the magic of WDW. I LOVED the monorails
Dont get me wrong, I love the monorails too... In fact, it was my childhood dream to drive them. They always hold a special place with me. :)



Originally posted by leebier
Is there at least somewhere, behind three dozen security doors, where they are working on some cool, new, and efficient form of transportation? I am just curious if Disney even acknowledges that it needs something better for sometime in the future, and further understand that the new system should be as cool as possible?
Indeed, Disney Imagineers are constantly doing research and development into potential systems that might work for Disney. In fact, once I finish my college degree in Civil Engineering, I hope to join that very team. As for what they've come up with? I wouldn't know. But I can bet you that they've already thought about all the ideas that we've discussed on this board. Who knows, in fact, they could be reading our discussion, and getting more ideas! LOL I would be willing to bet that the strongest potential idea would be a larger version of PRT. Meaning, instead of a personal vehicle, the vehicle might hold 20-50 people instead of 5. But we shall see! :)

At any rate folks... Keep up the GREAT discussion... and keep those ideas flowing... who knows... y'all might come up with a winning idea that the Imagineers hadn't thought about. :)
 
I agree, Tyler. My point of view on the whole thing is, I see the monorail as a compliment to the busses, not as a replacement. I would really like to see them expand it, and I have my hope there, I just have to reluctantly admit that that might not happen.

BTW, I also have a dream of eventually piloting a monorail. It's on my list of things to do before I die. What would be some things to prepare on before trying to become a monorail pilot?

You can PM me if you'd rather keep that out of the board.

Also, thanks for all the insight you've provided. It has opened my eyes, so to speak, about the situation there.
 

plpeters70

New Member
Originally posted by Fantasia Boi
I know this sounds crazy, but in addition, as Cast Members, we are not allowed to assist them up the ramp (unless specifically asked) and we're also not supposed to touch thier wheelchair (unless strapping it in the bus). This is for liability reasons.

Thanks for pointing that out - I actually wasn't aware of that. I was actually giving this idea some more thought, so I modified it a little. How about this solution...

Let's say that wheelchair guests are taken up to the peoplemover platform level by elevator, but they enter on the opposite side from where the guests load. On that side they have another speedramp, except this one is stationary. The wheelchair drives onto a designated area of the speedramp and waits for the correct peoplemover car. When the car with the ramp comes into the station, the doors open and the ramp lowers, and as soon as it is lined up with the wheelchair, a sensor is tripped, and the speedramp begins to move at the same speed as the peoplemover - then the wheelchair moves up the ramp, and loads. Unload would be the same, just in reverse.

I think most people could handle this sort of exercise, and they could aways E-stop if the person was having to much trouble. It's still not a perfect solution, but I'm getting it there!! :D


If they really wanted to spend the $$, they could design a moving platfrom that would do all the work. They could just park the wheelchair and lock it in place, then when the peoplemover arrived, the platform would move up the ramp and lock into place - then lower again at arrival. Obviously, this would be a much more expensive solution, but wouldn't it be cool!!! :cool:


Anyway, for those that have read this far - thanks for allowing me to go off on a tangent and allow my creative side to play!! :)
 

no2apprentice

Well-Known Member
OOH, OOH, a tengent! I have one, too!:D

I was going over some of the posts on this great thread, and started thinking about some of the comments about people willing to pay more for a monorail expansion, or for a seperate ticket, etc. While many of us who have posted here, and many who have only read the posts, have strong feelings about the magic of the monorail at WDW, I was trying to think (see signature) of a way to get an idea about how many of the general population would really care if the monorail was expanded at a great cost.

So-o-o-o-o-o-o, I went back to the math.

This thread is titled "Monorail Expansion". You would think that anyone who is interested in the monorail would be drawn to this thread. People who are REALLY interested in this topic, would be likely to post a reply. There are currently 3,972 registered members of WDWMAGIC.COM. Out of those 3,972, so far 56 members have posted a reply (hold your comments - I have a life - it didn't take me as long as you think to count the replies). That's only 1.4%.

Maybe, just maybe, we can use this to keep things in perspective. This is a WDW fan site. Yet only 1.4% felt compelled enough to make a post about the monorail. While I'm not saying this is a true representation of the general public and the percentage who care about the magic of the monorail, I do feel that the an expansion would not significantly effect on-property numbers. Having been involved in public service for a long time, I think Tyler's comments and observations about what the majority of visitor's expect of WDW's transportation is pretty accurate: they want convenience, low price/if not free, more convenience, and something their brain can (hopefully) comprehend.

Tyler, when you get around to reading this again, with a PRT, would that involve an elevated roadway/track, or would that be done on grade? Are you thinking of an automated system, where cars merge on and off a master road, and speeds are adjusted by computer? Would the cars be self-powered or run off an electrical rail or overhead wire? Just asking 'cause I don't know alot about PRT's, or what concepts have been presented.
 

jmarc63

New Member
Originally posted by no2apprentice
OOH, OOH, a tengent! I have one, too!:D

I was going over some of the posts on this great thread, and started thinking about some of the comments about people willing to pay more for a monorail expansion, or for a seperate ticket, etc. While many of us who have posted here, and many who have only read the posts, have strong feelings about the magic of the monorail at WDW, I was trying to think (see signature) of a way to get an idea about how many of the general population would really care if the monorail was expanded at a great cost.

So-o-o-o-o-o-o, I went back to the math.

This thread is titled "Monorail Expansion". You would think that anyone who is interested in the monorail would be drawn to this thread. People who are REALLY interested in this topic, would be likely to post a reply. There are currently 3,972 registered members of WDWMAGIC.COM. Out of those 3,972, so far 56 members have posted a reply (hold your comments - I have a life - it didn't take me as long as you think to count the replies). That's only 1.4%.

Maybe, just maybe, we can use this to keep things in perspective. This is a WDW fan site. Yet only 1.4% felt compelled enough to make a post about the monorail. While I'm not saying this is a true representation of the general public and the percentage who care about the magic of the monorail, I do feel that the an expansion would not significantly effect on-property numbers. Having been involved in public service for a long time, I think Tyler's comments and observations about what the majority of visitor's expect of WDW's transportation is pretty accurate: they want convenience, low price/if not free, more convenience, and something their brain can (hopefully) comprehend.

Tyler, when you get around to reading this again, with a PRT, would that involve an elevated roadway/track, or would that be done on grade? Are you thinking of an automated system, where cars merge on and off a master road, and speeds are adjusted by computer? Would the cars be self-powered or run off an electrical rail or overhead wire? Just asking 'cause I don't know alot about PRT's, or what concepts have been presented.

hey No2apprentence. read the posts from the link below

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11160&perpage=15&pagenumber=14

Check out the links to a rumor of the PRT Disney was looking into

Here are some Links to PRT websites and another PIC from West Virgina University

http://faculty.washington.edu/~jbs/itrans/PRT/
http://www.cprt.org/news.htm
http://www.cprt.org/page5.htm
http://www.gatewayprt.com/


Here Is the WVU website on the PRT
http://www.wvu.edu/~facserv/prt.htm

jmarc63 has attached this image:
 

no2apprentice

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the PRT links, jmarc63. Needless to say, since those posts were 5 days ago, I forgot someone had posted some information about PRT. I didn't have time to check into them when they were first posted, but I will now.:animwink:
 

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