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Monorail Expansion?
- Thread starter mlnance
- Start date
bamboo7
Active Member
i think it would be neat to see disney add a new mass transit system, or expand on an existing one, but the fact is that the current system works well. This leads me to beleive that a new mass transit system will not be added unless one of two things happens:
1. the current system fails (the busses become too crouded or something)
2. a new system is found that is a vast improvement over an existing one.
i don't see either of those two things happening any time soon, so i don't see any huge changes in wdw transportation happening any time soon. This certainly isn't meant to put down those who are discussing the possabilities of new transit systems (i found these threads to be very interesting). This is just my take on the practicallity of it happening.
1. the current system fails (the busses become too crouded or something)
2. a new system is found that is a vast improvement over an existing one.
i don't see either of those two things happening any time soon, so i don't see any huge changes in wdw transportation happening any time soon. This certainly isn't meant to put down those who are discussing the possabilities of new transit systems (i found these threads to be very interesting). This is just my take on the practicallity of it happening.
garyhoov
Trophy Husband
I tried to post a petition at the following website:
Petition Online
But I couldn't get it to work. If anyone else wants to try, post the location if you are successful.
Petition Online
But I couldn't get it to work. If anyone else wants to try, post the location if you are successful.
castlecake
New Member
Alot of people are saying that Disney is more about profits now, and thats one of the reasons there is no Monorail Expansion. Guess what? Disney is a COMPANY, they need to make a profit! Disney has always done its best in guest services, and creating a safe and enjoyable atmosphere at its parks world wide. But at the end of the day they need to make a profit thats what companies do. Although we are used to Disney rising over the rest, sometimes its just not economical for them to do things. Any Canadians on the boards will remeber Eaton's? Their moto was "Goods satisfactory, or money refunded" You could buy a couch or a fridge there bring it back in 10 years and get your money back! Eaton's was recognized across our contry for their outstanding customer service, and the kindness of their employee's. This sounds like an excellent company, but in 1999, after over 100 years of serving Canadians, it crashed and burned in 2 months. They tried getting other companies to buy the chain of department stores but no one would, because they knew this was not how you run a buisness. In the end Sears bought it and re-opend 7 of the 164 stores, which were closed earlier this month because they could no longer create a big enough profit. Anyways, you have to remeber that Disney is a Company and in the end has to make some money.
At this time I will step off my soap-box
At this time I will step off my soap-box
garyhoov
Trophy Husband
Castlecake,
I agree 100% with the basic premise of your argument which seems to be we shouldn't expect Disney to do anything that isn't profitable, but, in Disney's case, what is and isn't profitable is very hard to define.
I, for one, would never expect Disney to do anything that wasn't profitable. The question is not one of profit or not, it is one of quantifying the gain in attendance and hotel/admission price with a state of the art transportation system.
I probably won't be going to Disney World this year (for the first time in six years), but I would be making reservations tomorrow if they had a state of the art transportation system. Additionally I would be willing to pay at least $200 extra per stay if I was able to ride a really new and exciting transportation system.
When I first went to Disney World six years ago, I became of fan of the basic way they did things. I was so impressed with them that I became a fan and supported them in many ways (going to movies just because they were Disney, buying Disney books, clothing etc.). It is very hard to quantify the kind of profits generated by that sort of enthusiasm. Lately, I have seen less innovative thinking from them, and that has lessened my general interest in the company and their products.
You (and the Disney Board) obviously don't think there are enough people like me to make such a venture profitable. You are probably right, but if there are enough of us, a new system would not only be profitable, it would be symbolic of the type of progress that will be required regain our business.
Thanks for your input.
Turkey Leg Boy,
I was looking into the petition in response to a previous post regarding petitioning. You're probably right, it wouldn't do much good, but I've got plenty of time to waste on such things(Just not enough to figure out how to make it work).:animwink:
I agree 100% with the basic premise of your argument which seems to be we shouldn't expect Disney to do anything that isn't profitable, but, in Disney's case, what is and isn't profitable is very hard to define.
I, for one, would never expect Disney to do anything that wasn't profitable. The question is not one of profit or not, it is one of quantifying the gain in attendance and hotel/admission price with a state of the art transportation system.
I probably won't be going to Disney World this year (for the first time in six years), but I would be making reservations tomorrow if they had a state of the art transportation system. Additionally I would be willing to pay at least $200 extra per stay if I was able to ride a really new and exciting transportation system.
When I first went to Disney World six years ago, I became of fan of the basic way they did things. I was so impressed with them that I became a fan and supported them in many ways (going to movies just because they were Disney, buying Disney books, clothing etc.). It is very hard to quantify the kind of profits generated by that sort of enthusiasm. Lately, I have seen less innovative thinking from them, and that has lessened my general interest in the company and their products.
You (and the Disney Board) obviously don't think there are enough people like me to make such a venture profitable. You are probably right, but if there are enough of us, a new system would not only be profitable, it would be symbolic of the type of progress that will be required regain our business.
Thanks for your input.
Turkey Leg Boy,
I was looking into the petition in response to a previous post regarding petitioning. You're probably right, it wouldn't do much good, but I've got plenty of time to waste on such things(Just not enough to figure out how to make it work).:animwink:
jmarc63
New Member
Castlecake
You were dissatisified after only six years at the time that it was going down hill campared to what had come before. Imagine me that hasd been a fan since my first trip to Disneyland in 68. I loved and looked forward to each trip to disney from 71 to 80, Everything was new and they made it look that way even in 80 it looked like it did in 71 except the trees and shrubs were bigger. When I was there in 93 I was feeling sick that some of the shine was gone and walts pholosphy had been forgoten so you think you dissapointed how do you think I feel now at the 30th annaversery of WDW and that the Magic Kingdom is not in the best of shape.
garyhoov
Trophy Husband
Here's a simple example that takes Disney out of the argument. Imagine a meeting of BMW accountants and engineers. An accountant points out that it currently costs them $31,000 to make cars that they sell for $35,000, so they make a $4,000 profit per car. The accountant points out that they can double their profit by simply replacing the expensive alloys they use with steel. That would reduce their cost to $27,000 and double their profits!
From a very simplistic accounting point of view, this seems to make sense, but it is forgetting the basic reason that people buy BMW's. How do you quantify the value of using high priced alloys? It is impossible, but there is clearly a value. Better cars = higher profit.
From a very simplistic accounting point of view, this seems to make sense, but it is forgetting the basic reason that people buy BMW's. How do you quantify the value of using high priced alloys? It is impossible, but there is clearly a value. Better cars = higher profit.
Donald_Quackers
Member
Well, to be technical about it, the tram at the airport is not a monorail, as it rides on four wheels like a car. But that is the same voice.
MKCustodial
Well-Known Member
OK, tell me this is just a figure of speech. Now I really want your job! :lol: Not to mention dollar rates around the world...
Invero
Well-Known Member
Magic On Demand and Flex Dispatching
We do have a few RTS busses with weak airbags on one side, thus causing the bus to lean when fully loaded and/or on a curve. Us drivers will write it up, but when maintenance checks it out, all is fine, because the bus is empty. But we won't get into my issues with maintenance.
I'm curious what time of day this was. My first thought is that it was before 11am, because of the close proximity of a Manager. From 8am-11am, we use MOD - Magic On Demand. Busses "Float" out of the All Stars. They are all parked between Sports and Music, and are dispatched from that location by a Coordinator. (Hence why a manager is often found hanging out there) Typically the busses are dispatched to go to one All Star and pick up there, and then head directly to the theme park.
It could be that the bus was told to go to Music... but went to Movies instead. At that point, obviously, the line will get pretty long at Music for the Studios. During the morning, there is a Cast Member at each one of the All Stars... they have a radio, and can call the coordinator dispatching the busses to let them know of any special situations, large groups, or whatnot. They also record each bus as it comes in, the time it comes in, and if they filled up and left people waiting. What probably happened is that the cast member called the coordinator, told them, "Hey, we've got a big crowd here, there hasn't been a bus in awhile."
At this point, the manager would try and call the bus that was originally dispatched. They might have not had the radio volume turned up, might have been busy, or had a broken radio. When the manager couldnt get a hold of the bus, she would have driven over to Music herself to see the crowd, and to do some "Guest Service Recovery"... also, the coordinator would have probably dispatched the next 2 busses he got into Music for the Studios.
After 11am... Most locations will revert to set routes. For example, the Studios will have 3-4 busses running the All Stars. It's a 40 minute run, so typically, a bus should come every 10-15 minutes, depending on how well spaced out they are.
Magic Kingdom and Downtown Disney are a bit different. Both locations are trying out a new form of dispatching called Flexible Independant Dispatching System, FIDS, or commonly called "Flex Dispatching." The way Flex works is a bus will pull into the Magic Kingdom, and the driver will be given a time out, and a route. The driver then goes and picks up at the MK for that route.
We'll use Caribbean Beach for example. With the old count sheets and fixed routes, CBR was on a 42 minute run. So if I was driving CBR, and my first time out was 15:00... I'd do the run... I'd probably get back around 15:34, and then I'd sit at the MK until my dispatch time of 15:42. Most of the times in, I'd be 5-10 minutes early, and thus, I'd sit for 5-10 minutes. In addition... if for some obscure reason, I become 5-10 late... now, those guests are waiting 5-10 minutes more for me each run.
With the new Flex Dispatch, I'll pull into the MK at 14:57... get dispatched to do the 15:00 CBR. I pick up, and head to the resort. I get back to the MK at 15:34. Now, instead of sitting around, they give me the 15:37 All Star Sports run. So, I load and go.
This new system provides a better utilization of our busses over Fixed Routes. Instead of having them just sit and wait at the load zones, we keep them moving. Over the span of a few hours, each bus has now done one or two additional runs. This increases our capacity, and lowers the guest wait times. We also don't have to worry about a bus being late. Because of the Flex Dispatching, 95% of the busses are returning early, or on time. The few busses that run a little bit late due to the use of the ADA Lift or Ramp, are dispatched off to new locations, and once again are on time.
We do have a few RTS busses with weak airbags on one side, thus causing the bus to lean when fully loaded and/or on a curve. Us drivers will write it up, but when maintenance checks it out, all is fine, because the bus is empty. But we won't get into my issues with maintenance.
I'm curious what time of day this was. My first thought is that it was before 11am, because of the close proximity of a Manager. From 8am-11am, we use MOD - Magic On Demand. Busses "Float" out of the All Stars. They are all parked between Sports and Music, and are dispatched from that location by a Coordinator. (Hence why a manager is often found hanging out there) Typically the busses are dispatched to go to one All Star and pick up there, and then head directly to the theme park.
It could be that the bus was told to go to Music... but went to Movies instead. At that point, obviously, the line will get pretty long at Music for the Studios. During the morning, there is a Cast Member at each one of the All Stars... they have a radio, and can call the coordinator dispatching the busses to let them know of any special situations, large groups, or whatnot. They also record each bus as it comes in, the time it comes in, and if they filled up and left people waiting. What probably happened is that the cast member called the coordinator, told them, "Hey, we've got a big crowd here, there hasn't been a bus in awhile."
At this point, the manager would try and call the bus that was originally dispatched. They might have not had the radio volume turned up, might have been busy, or had a broken radio. When the manager couldnt get a hold of the bus, she would have driven over to Music herself to see the crowd, and to do some "Guest Service Recovery"... also, the coordinator would have probably dispatched the next 2 busses he got into Music for the Studios.
After 11am... Most locations will revert to set routes. For example, the Studios will have 3-4 busses running the All Stars. It's a 40 minute run, so typically, a bus should come every 10-15 minutes, depending on how well spaced out they are.
Magic Kingdom and Downtown Disney are a bit different. Both locations are trying out a new form of dispatching called Flexible Independant Dispatching System, FIDS, or commonly called "Flex Dispatching." The way Flex works is a bus will pull into the Magic Kingdom, and the driver will be given a time out, and a route. The driver then goes and picks up at the MK for that route.
We'll use Caribbean Beach for example. With the old count sheets and fixed routes, CBR was on a 42 minute run. So if I was driving CBR, and my first time out was 15:00... I'd do the run... I'd probably get back around 15:34, and then I'd sit at the MK until my dispatch time of 15:42. Most of the times in, I'd be 5-10 minutes early, and thus, I'd sit for 5-10 minutes. In addition... if for some obscure reason, I become 5-10 late... now, those guests are waiting 5-10 minutes more for me each run.
With the new Flex Dispatch, I'll pull into the MK at 14:57... get dispatched to do the 15:00 CBR. I pick up, and head to the resort. I get back to the MK at 15:34. Now, instead of sitting around, they give me the 15:37 All Star Sports run. So, I load and go.
This new system provides a better utilization of our busses over Fixed Routes. Instead of having them just sit and wait at the load zones, we keep them moving. Over the span of a few hours, each bus has now done one or two additional runs. This increases our capacity, and lowers the guest wait times. We also don't have to worry about a bus being late. Because of the Flex Dispatching, 95% of the busses are returning early, or on time. The few busses that run a little bit late due to the use of the ADA Lift or Ramp, are dispatched off to new locations, and once again are on time.
Invero
Well-Known Member
Re: Re: Re: Re: Monorail petition campagin!!!!!!
Yes, I will agree with you... The mass population wants a Monorail. They all THINK that it is faster, and more efficient than a bus because it is bigger than a bus. They also think that they are more likely to get a seat. Beleive me, I have been with Disney Transport for 2 years, I have heard it all.
See, here's the problem with all that. The guests don't think about the logistics of it all. All they think about is that dream of them sitting on that whisper quiet monorail, as it wisks them away to their resort in 5 minutes.
Here are some common myths about the monorail.
MYTH: I hate standing on the bus. I'd rather take the monorail so that I can sit.
FACT: Actually... you'd have a better chance of getting a seat with a bus. Our standard RTS busses have 45-47 seats, and allow for 20-25 standees. That's 62-70% seated. The Nova low floor bus only has 35 seats (Disney is currently looking at a low floor buss with 44 seats, however no committment at this time) and 25-35 standing. That's 50-60% seated. With a monorail, there are 20 seats per car, and room for 30-40 to stand. That's 30-40% seated.
MYTH: The Monorail will get me there faster, because the bus has to make a few stops.
FACT: While it is true, busses will often make several stops within a resort, or service multiple resorts... so will the Monorail if it were expanded to service those areas. Think about it... All Stars... The monorail would still have to make stops at Sports, Music and Movies. (In fact, they might even have it stop at Coronado, since its on the way) Right now, as it stands, Magic Kingdom separates the All Stars. Epcot separates them at night as well. And in the morning, they're usually separate.
And as for speed... A bus is more direct. Yes, some busses make a few stops as outlined above, but a Monorail might require a transfer. Late at night during a park exit... Are you willing to wait in a huge line... stand on a monorail... get taken to a transfer point... stand in a huge line again... get on another monorail... stand some more... it might take 30-45 minutes to get there, whereas a bus could have you home in 15 minutes.
FACT: If a monorail breaks down, the whole system goes down. One time I spent 45 minutes holding outside of a station because the train in front of me broke down. 45 minutes... not to mention, it was 1:00am... and I had a fully jam packed train. There was nothing I could do, except sit and wait.
With a bus... if a bus breaks down... usually, it can pull over, and let other vehicles pass. (If it can't, Security can redirect traffic). Guests can be transferred onto another replacement bus.
One time, my bus blew a gasket, and overheated on World Drive. Within 5 minutes, I had all my guests on board another bus to the Magic Kingdom. This was before Flex Dispatching, so the coordinators brought online another bus to replace mine on the route. Had it been with Flex, they wouldnt even have needed to do that. Total downtime: 5 minutes.
FACT: Busses are flexible. I can't tell you how many times we as drivers will go "off route" for a few minutes to take a guest directly to thier destination. Many many times I'll pick up guests going to Magic Kingdom late at night, just to transfer and go to a resort. 99% of the time, I'll take them directly. Monorails can't venture off thier guideway.
So with all that I just said... I ask... do you still want a Monorail?
Yes, I will agree with you... The mass population wants a Monorail. They all THINK that it is faster, and more efficient than a bus because it is bigger than a bus. They also think that they are more likely to get a seat. Beleive me, I have been with Disney Transport for 2 years, I have heard it all.
See, here's the problem with all that. The guests don't think about the logistics of it all. All they think about is that dream of them sitting on that whisper quiet monorail, as it wisks them away to their resort in 5 minutes.
Here are some common myths about the monorail.
MYTH: I hate standing on the bus. I'd rather take the monorail so that I can sit.
FACT: Actually... you'd have a better chance of getting a seat with a bus. Our standard RTS busses have 45-47 seats, and allow for 20-25 standees. That's 62-70% seated. The Nova low floor bus only has 35 seats (Disney is currently looking at a low floor buss with 44 seats, however no committment at this time) and 25-35 standing. That's 50-60% seated. With a monorail, there are 20 seats per car, and room for 30-40 to stand. That's 30-40% seated.
MYTH: The Monorail will get me there faster, because the bus has to make a few stops.
FACT: While it is true, busses will often make several stops within a resort, or service multiple resorts... so will the Monorail if it were expanded to service those areas. Think about it... All Stars... The monorail would still have to make stops at Sports, Music and Movies. (In fact, they might even have it stop at Coronado, since its on the way) Right now, as it stands, Magic Kingdom separates the All Stars. Epcot separates them at night as well. And in the morning, they're usually separate.
And as for speed... A bus is more direct. Yes, some busses make a few stops as outlined above, but a Monorail might require a transfer. Late at night during a park exit... Are you willing to wait in a huge line... stand on a monorail... get taken to a transfer point... stand in a huge line again... get on another monorail... stand some more... it might take 30-45 minutes to get there, whereas a bus could have you home in 15 minutes.
FACT: If a monorail breaks down, the whole system goes down. One time I spent 45 minutes holding outside of a station because the train in front of me broke down. 45 minutes... not to mention, it was 1:00am... and I had a fully jam packed train. There was nothing I could do, except sit and wait.
With a bus... if a bus breaks down... usually, it can pull over, and let other vehicles pass. (If it can't, Security can redirect traffic). Guests can be transferred onto another replacement bus.
One time, my bus blew a gasket, and overheated on World Drive. Within 5 minutes, I had all my guests on board another bus to the Magic Kingdom. This was before Flex Dispatching, so the coordinators brought online another bus to replace mine on the route. Had it been with Flex, they wouldnt even have needed to do that. Total downtime: 5 minutes.
FACT: Busses are flexible. I can't tell you how many times we as drivers will go "off route" for a few minutes to take a guest directly to thier destination. Many many times I'll pick up guests going to Magic Kingdom late at night, just to transfer and go to a resort. 99% of the time, I'll take them directly. Monorails can't venture off thier guideway.
So with all that I just said... I ask... do you still want a Monorail?
I guess all of us "Monorailites" want to see a monorail expansion (PERIOD). They have let everything untouched for a long time and now since they have all these resorts and two parks that have only two ways to get in (buses or cars). The monorail is a ride, who cares what the heck the waiting time is, and whether or not we stand up or sit down. I remember we had a hour wait to get on to the World of Motion one night. If you want to ride it, who cares how long the wait is, the deal is your going to ride it one way or another. Being on the monorail at night, during Christmas is the most breathtaking view there is at Disney World. I could care less about waiting times or transfer times because I am there having a good time. Time is not an issue when your on vacation at Disney World, unless you want to see a parade or something. (At least that is how I view it).
(I know in earlier posts I criticized the buses for being late, but I could handle it if it was the monorail)
You'll get back to your hotel whenever it suits. It's like if you want to eat, you have to eat at different times of the day or else you will have to have make reservations 120 days in advance if you want to eat on a schedule. I know with little ones, this entire thing is a different story. But, for us diehard fans, who cares! If your having a good time, what the heck. So what if the monorail is late. Although, I know from previous experience that senior citizens are going raise cane over everything.
I enjoyed riding the monorail through the resorts. Unfornately, my dad couldn't afford a Disney Resort Hotel so it was a real treat to at least see the resorts through the various stations. And we got off and looked around at each resort. The Contemporary Resort was my favorite resort.
Logistically and money-wise, I understand the problem areas. But something is going to have to be done if Disney adds more parks within the next two decades. I can't imagine them using the bus system for that length of time. Something is going to have to be done one way or another.
Mike
(I know in earlier posts I criticized the buses for being late, but I could handle it if it was the monorail)
You'll get back to your hotel whenever it suits. It's like if you want to eat, you have to eat at different times of the day or else you will have to have make reservations 120 days in advance if you want to eat on a schedule. I know with little ones, this entire thing is a different story. But, for us diehard fans, who cares! If your having a good time, what the heck. So what if the monorail is late. Although, I know from previous experience that senior citizens are going raise cane over everything.
I enjoyed riding the monorail through the resorts. Unfornately, my dad couldn't afford a Disney Resort Hotel so it was a real treat to at least see the resorts through the various stations. And we got off and looked around at each resort. The Contemporary Resort was my favorite resort.
Logistically and money-wise, I understand the problem areas. But something is going to have to be done if Disney adds more parks within the next two decades. I can't imagine them using the bus system for that length of time. Something is going to have to be done one way or another.
Mike
bamboo7
Active Member
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Monorail petition campagin!!!!!!
i certainly want to keep the monorails that we currently have. not for it's efficents, but for its value as an attraction. It is unique and interesting.
do i want the monorail system expanded?
sure, why not. but just for the same reason of why i want to keep the current monorail system
bottom line: it would be neat and fun to have more monorails, but i certainly won't be losing any sleep over a lack of new monorails.
i certainly want to keep the monorails that we currently have. not for it's efficents, but for its value as an attraction. It is unique and interesting.
do i want the monorail system expanded?
sure, why not. but just for the same reason of why i want to keep the current monorail system
bottom line: it would be neat and fun to have more monorails, but i certainly won't be losing any sleep over a lack of new monorails.