Monorail Expansion?

jmarc63

jmarc63

New Member
MORE MONORAIL EXPANSION RUMORS

Fantasia Boi
This ones for you.
I just read on a site that has several news stories that they link to WDW Magic. and they have there own roumer an the monorail expansion. First they claim that Disney ordered 28 new Mark VII Trains from the manufacture( Howmany trains do they have currently for the two loops, which manufacture are they from?)

And second they describe it as a five year plan costing $10,000 a day.

Where it this coming from?
Are the current trains going to be upgraded?
If this is like the rest of the rumors they are getting a life of its own.

But I do rember reading in one of the orlando papers that Al Weiss claimes that they will be doing the peoplemover like they have at West Virgina University called PRT(Personal Rapid Transit)
Have you heard of this??
I have attached a PIC
 

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garyhoov

garyhoov

Trophy Husband
Diesel isnt that bad. What comes out of the exhaust is just dirt. Its better than carbon monoxide. My science teacher actually tried to convince me that diesel is worse for the environment. He pretty much said because it looks dirty its worse for the environment.
Click to expand...

Here is a link:Children's exposure to diesel exhaust on school buses

To quote from the link: "Federal agencies have classified diesel exhaust as a probable human carcinogen."
 
garyhoov

garyhoov

Trophy Husband
jmarc63,

Thanks! That's some good information.

It seems like many companies are proposing PRT systems, but the only actual, operational system I have heard of is the WVU system. Does anyone know if there are any others?

Has anyone seen any detailed numbers to determine if any proposed PRT systems really could handle the kind of volume Disney World requires?
 
jmarc63

jmarc63

New Member
Hey I just found this at http://www.waltopia.com/

If you look in the foreground of this concept painting from early EPCOT concept it looks like a PRT type vehicle . This was the original concept for the peoplemover.
 

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no2apprentice

no2apprentice

Well-Known Member
$10,000 a day, five year plan = $18,250,000.

If it is an expansion, doesn't sound like much of one. Tyler said about $17 million a train, so this quote is obviously not including the cost of any new trains. Tyler quoted $5 million per mile for guideway (line, track, beam, whatever you want to call it). That's only about 3 miles of guideway. Maybe 4 (slower economy = lower bids - lol).

If this rumour is true (and we all know how rumours are), and 3 miles is all their budgeting for, then we're realistically looking at an expansion that will only be within about 1 1/2 to 2 miles of EPCOT. I say EPCOT because that is the most likely place to expand from with such a short distance.

Okay, those of you with a scaled map of WDW, what can you reach within 1 1/2 to 2 miles of EPCOT?
 
jmarc63

jmarc63

New Member
Correction--my error

Originally posted by no2apprentice
$10,000 a day, five year plan = $18,250,000.

If it is an expansion, doesn't sound like much of one. Tyler said about $17 million a train, so this quote is obviously not including the cost of any new trains. Tyler quoted $5 million per mile for guideway (line, track, beam, whatever you want to call it). That's only about 3 miles of guideway. Maybe 4 (slower economy = lower bids - lol).

If this rumour is true (and we all know how rumours are), and 3 miles is all their budgeting for, then we're realistically looking at an expansion that will only be within about 1 1/2 to 2 miles of EPCOT. I say EPCOT because that is the most likely place to expand from with such a short distance.

Okay, those of you with a scaled map of WDW, what can you reach within 1 1/2 to 2 miles of EPCOT?
Click to expand...

The existing trackage is about 14.6 miles

Correction that was per segment of beamway(from post to post) with 30 miles of beams to be built around the property not including Monorails and a new TTC
 
no2apprentice

no2apprentice

Well-Known Member
Okay, back to the math and money.

Thanks for the link, jmarc63. I'm going to be generous, and guess that the distance between posts is 50 feet. Now, that's 105.6 segments in a mile. At $10,000 a segment, that's $1,056,000 a mile. 30 miles of guideway would be about $31,680,000.

If 28 new trains were ordered, that's about $476,000,000. So far we're up to about $507,680,000 for trains and guideway. No costs yet on stations.

IF the rumours are true :animwink: .
 
garyhoov

garyhoov

Trophy Husband
jmarc63,

Wow! You've been busy. Many thanks for the wealth of info.:sohappy:

Those old drawings do seem to clearly indicate Walt's intention to have an integrated Monorail/PRT system. That's enough for me to think it deserves some serious study.

On the cost issue, does anyone have any budget figures for the Las Vegas system? Improvements in materials and construction techniques combined with economies of scale could make things less expensive.
 
garyhoov

garyhoov

Trophy Husband
The costs from the link I posted above seem much higher than we had been estimating. I'm guessing those costs include trains and stations.
 
jmarc63

jmarc63

New Member
Originally posted by no2apprentice
Okay, back to the math and money.

Thanks for the link, jmarc63. I'm going to be generous, and guess that the distance between posts is 50 feet. Now, that's 105.6 segments in a mile. At $10,000 a segment, that's $1,056,000 a mile. 30 miles of guideway would be about $31,680,000.

If 28 new trains were ordered, that's about $476,000,000. So far we're up to about $507,680,000 for trains and guideway. No costs yet on stations.

IF the rumours are true :animwink: .
Click to expand...

OK..... Sorry I remembered it wrong when I last posted this I could not access the page I found on, They were down for Maintenence. I found the Blurb. Sorry It's even higer that were estimating.

HERE IT IS...........

Disney is starting a five year construction plan beginning in 2001 to lay almost 30 miles of monorail track. The exorbitant operating cost of $10,000 a day per foot of track was holding them back, but they're ready to go for it. The monorail will include all theme parks, Wide World of Sports, and Downtown Disney. Disney has ordered 28 new Mark VII trains (an improvement to the current Mark VI monorails).


So based on this it looks like its going to cost $1.56 Billion Dollars
 
garyhoov

garyhoov

Trophy Husband
jmarc63,

Where did that info. come from? Since it said they would start in 2001, something is wrong. Either the report was false or it got delayed or cancelled. I have not heard anything about such bold plans, so if the report is true, the Disney Brass must be keeping very tight lipped.
 
jmarc63

jmarc63

New Member
Originally posted by garyhoov
jmarc63,

Wow! You've been busy. Many thanks for the wealth of info.:sohappy:

Those old drawings do seem to clearly indicate Walt's intention to have an integrated Monorail/PRT system. That's enough for me to think it deserves some serious study.

On the cost issue, does anyone have any budget figures for the Las Vegas system? Improvements in materials and construction techniques combined with economies of scale could make things less expensive.
Click to expand...

Well I love the Monorail as a transportation vehicle. I have been hoping since I first learned of these rumors back in '93 that they would expand the Monorail and get rid of the busses. I wouldn't mind a peoplemover for directly connecting to a resort Hotel( like in Walt's original EPCOT concept plan) from a Monorail Mainline route
 
J

JLW11Hi

Well-Known Member
Hey, sorry to get of the subject, but how often and when do they have those monorail washing machines go by? I am guessing they do it at night, but it would be cool to see it go by.
 
jmarc63

jmarc63

New Member
Originally posted by garyhoov
jmarc63,

....... does anyone have any budget figures for the Las Vegas system? Improvements in materials and construction techniques combined with economies of scale could make things less expensive.
Click to expand...

Here are some details on las vegas.

BTW the vegas systems original one mile from MGMK to Bally's Bought two retired Mark IV fro use on the line. so the Beam design are identical to WDW. For the extention they have some modifications to how the beams attach to the pylons

In 2000, the nine-year visionary effort to make the Las Vegas Monorail a reality was realized. Under a franchise that was awarded by Clark County to Las Vegas' two largest private resort owners, Park Place Entertainment and MGM-Mirage Resorts, the project was fully funded, without using tax money of any kind, through the issuance (by Salomon Smith Barney) and subsequent sale of over $600 million in non-recourse, project revenue bonds. The bonds provided the capital needed to not only build the system, but also to pay for all finance costs; and no added funds are needed to pay for ongoing operations and maintenance. The cost of financing includes large protections for the bondholders designed to insure the project's success, including:

Over $100 million in interest during project construction and beyond;
Insurance premiums for everything from a County-required "guideway tear-down" guarantee to protection from Force Majeure Acts;
Contingencies for construction unknowns (e.g., unidentified underground utilities and differing site conditions);
Property taxes during construction, management costs for independent oversight engineering and construction services; and,
$75 million in reserves to protect the project from any other unforeseen events (above and beyond the protections provided by the fixed price contract and insurance).

For the compleat article go http://www.monorails.org/tMspages/LasVeg5.html#anchor2370965
 

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