Monorail Expansion...maybe..

[Thrawn]

For those of you actually interested in the cost of a monorail system you can look at the financials from Las Vegas, Seatle, Jacksonville, and many others which for the most part have been professionally auditied so I would expect to be accurate.

Good argument, but there are a couple of problems. First, the Vegas line only goes straight. Much cheaper. It was also built above existing roadway, also lessening the cost.
The last addition in Seattle was 14 miles, and cost $1.75 billion. Source here: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/transportation/140880_monorail23.html
Thats $125 million a mile. And again, thats not on swampland.

For those amongst you that wish to reply with "that was too long ago to count" sorts or arguments what about Tokyo Disney Resort (cooperative between Disney and one of Japan's rail companies), Disney's California Adventure, Downtown Disney Anaheim, exapansion, and there is now some talk about adding Monorail to Hong Kong Disney (which conveniently would connect to the city's other Monorail lines).

The two DLR monorail extensions were extremely short, and probably can't be used to argue anything. They actually probably cost more per mile because of the short distance they went.

The discussion of light rail needs to include a discussion of safety, in the US last year there were 40,000 inuries on light rail that required a trip to the hospital or funeral home (this from Houston's news paper), Monorial meanwhile has had no fatalities and almost no injuries. The whole not being at grade and having to compete with street traffic, traffic lights, pedestrians, and the assortment of idiots and in worse scenarios drunks on the road has its benefits.

Agreed, safety is an issue, however you can be assured that if Disney were to build a light rail system, they wouldn't just haphazardly run it through the roads.

The busses are very efficient feeders to the monorail, sounds like a good plan to me.

No, I don't want to transfer. Having everyone transfer just to get to the park would make some people very angry. Whatever they do, they have to make it one direct trip from point a to point b. (Resort to park or whatever)

 

[Woody13]

What WDW needs is a passenger pneumatic capsule pipeline system. It would be far less expensive than a monorail and could move huge numbers of people (more than the monorails) at speeds of 60 mph or even more. The pipelines can be run anywhere.

WDW already uses this type of technology with their garbage removal system at the MK. Moving guests in this fashion would be one step up from garbage.

You've seen pneumatic capsule systems at the drive-in windows in banks or in office buildings. Well, people moving systems have been designed and used in Russia (for example) and they work. Just imagine going from AK to MK in a pneumatic capsule pipeline. It would be a better ride than RnR!

Maybe they could put a corkscrew in the pipe for the teens.

 

[marni1971]

No, I don't want to transfer. Having everyone transfer just to get to the park would make some people very angry. Whatever they do, they have to make it one direct trip from point a to point b. (Resort to park or whatever)

But don`t MK resort guests already do this to go to Epcot?

Nice to see a healthy debate (almost) staying healthy!

 

[Thrawn]

But don`t MK resort guests already do this to go to Epcot?

Nice to see a healthy debate (almost) staying healthy!

True, which is why I do not stay at MK area resorts.

 

[gsimpson]

las Vegas is straight???

You need to take a trip to LV, the monorail has tighter turns than anything at WDW (except possibly the maintenance guideway which I don't know anything about).

 

[Thrawn]

You need to take a trip to LV, the monorail has tighter turns than anything at WDW (except possibly the maintenance guideway which I don't know anything about).

It is only straight. The reason for the tight turns are the streets.
http://gocalifornia.about.com/bl_nvlv_map_strip.htm
Heres the numbers on the LV monorail.
http://www.austinmonorail.org/monorail_costs.htm

Yes, it only cost $87 million a mile, but that is only 3.9 miles. With the amount of trains WDW would need, the cost would go up.

Edit: Also, the low cost of LV monorail may have added to this:

The Las Vegas Monorail is back in operation after a 107 day shutdown. The Las Vegas Monorail reopened on Christmas Eve 2004. Ticket prices are the same as before: $3 per ride or $10 for a one day pass.
From: http://www.casenet.com/concert/lvscan.htm

Disney can't have ANY downtime if it is a single lane, nevermind 107 days.

 

[CaptainMichael]

What WDW needs is a passenger pneumatic capsule pipeline system. It would be far less expensive than a monorail and could move huge numbers of people (more than the monorails) at speeds of 60 mph or even more. The pipelines can be run anywhere.

WDW already uses this type of technology with their garbage removal system at the MK. Moving guests in this fashion would be one step up from garbage.

You've seen pneumatic capsule systems at the drive-in windows in banks or in office buildings. Well, people moving systems have been designed and used in Russia (for example) and they work. Just imagine going from AK to MK in a pneumatic capsule pipeline. It would be a better ride than RnR!

Maybe they could put a corkscrew in the pipe for the teens.

Are you being serious because this sounds really cool!

 

[no2apprentice]

Lets just say the monorail is extended to AK & Lodge(putting access near Lodge) from the TTC. Bumping the room rate by $100(the other monorail resorts easily go for this)[font=&quot][/font][font=&quot] [/font]

If you can afford to stay at AKL for $100 more a night, more power to you.

I seem to remember a tremendous outcry of pain from the masses when Disney raised it's WDW ticket prices by...a whopping $2.75 for a one day ticket last year. I don't think raising the room rate $100 a night just for a monorail ride would sit too well with some people.

And on top of that, for a $100 a night, that monorail better have a terminal RIGHT OUTSIDE THE FRONT DOOR! :lol:

 

[Invero]

But don`t MK resort guests already do this to go to Epcot?

Yes, and they hate it. Trying to explain to guests (especially to those who don't speak English) that they have to transfer to get to Epcot is a challenge. It sounds like a simple concept, but in reality, people get baffled by it. Actually, people get baffled by a bright LED sign on the bus that says "MAGIC KINGDOM" -- they always ask, "Where do you go? Do you go to Downtown Disney???"

Some might bring up that public transit has lots of connections. However, one must remember that folks in those cities LIVE with those systems, and have months, years, lifetimes to learn and get used to them. At Walt Disney World, they don't have that. Systems need to be designed to be VERY simple, and very streamlined.

(BTW, it should be noted that when I was a bus driver, I'd get a lot of people asking at Epcot where the bus to the Contemporary, Polynesian or Grand Floridian was. They would then get bummed that they had to take the monorail and transfer.)

 

[Woody13]

Are you being serious because this sounds really cool!

Monorail and maglev switch mechanisms are large and cumbersome and cannot handle speeds up to 100 km/h (60 mi/h) during switching. This system can go twice that speed if needed.




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[dsnydude]

Please, read the other 20+ page long threads before posting again.

It seems to me by reading the posts on this board for months (I've been a silent observer for almost a year now) that using the "search" feature always finds its way into every topic here. The thing is, what if he did do a search and decided to revive an old post with his new comment? No doubt moans would be heard across the board from members with "Not this topic again!". It's a lose-lose situation: wether you search for an old post and add your point of view or you simply create a new thread, either way people will be mad. This is a discussion board where members share information, he had a story he wanted to share and he has a right to do so. If you see that an old topic has been restarted and your tired with it, why do you even bother to read it? It's your choice to move on and not let it effect you. For those of you that still DO enjoy debating about monorail expansion, let the conversation continue....
Joe

 

[Thrawn]

It seems to me by reading the posts on this board for months (I've been a silent observer for almost a year now) that using the "search" feature always finds its way into every topic here. The thing is, what if he did do a search and decided to revive an old post with his new comment? No doubt moans would be heard across the board from members with "Not this topic again!". It's a lose-lose situation: wether you search for an old post and add your point of view or you simply create a new thread, either way people will be mad. This is a discussion board where members share information, he had a story he wanted to share and he has a right to do so. If you see that an old topic has been restarted and your tired with it, why do you even bother to read it? It's your choice to move on and not let it effect you. For those of you that still DO enjoy debating about monorail expansion, let the conversation continue....
Joe

I wasn't talking to the OP when I said that. Please don't quote me out of context.

 

[dsnydude]

My bad, your right. But please explain why you wanted someone to close this thread after responding to the OP? Could it be you were tired of the old topic?

Now, someone close this.

Joe

 

[TimeTrip]

It is only straight. The reason for the tight turns are the streets.
http://gocalifornia.about.com/bl_nvlv_map_strip.htm
Heres the numbers on the LV monorail.
http://www.austinmonorail.org/monorail_costs.htm

So... you basically said "its cheap because its straight". Then someone points out that it isn't straight. Then you point out that it is straight, but it isn't? What point are you trying to make here?

Yes, it only cost $87 million a mile, but that is only 3.9 miles. With the amount of trains WDW would need, the cost would go up.

So let me get this right. As you build a longer system, the price per mile goes up? Can we get an explanation behind this?

 

[Thrawn]

So... you basically said "its cheap because its straight". Then someone points out that it isn't straight. Then you point out that it is straight, but it isn't? What point are you trying to make here?

The track is straight except for some sharp 90 degree turns. All WDW monorail turns are built much more gentle and gliding. My point was that the LV system is much more basic and easier to run than any expansion at WDW.

So let me get this right. As you build a longer system, the price per mile goes up? Can we get an explanation behind this?

Yes, on a 4 mile loop, vegas may only need 2 trains, and WDW needs 4. Also, the cost isn't something that "the more you make, the less it gets". It can only go up, due to problems with the ground they are trying to go into, or road crossings, etc. Also, the huge amount of concrete they would use would drive the price of concrete up. While it wouldn't be the same amount, the Hoover Dam caused a huge jump in price of concrete when it was built. Also, the prices on the monorail trains would also go up, because I'm sure Bombadier only has a certain capacity, and that would have to be upped to add in the large number of trains Disney would need.

 

[TimeTrip]

Yes, on a 4 mile loop, vegas may only need 2 trains, and WDW needs 4. Also, the cost isn't something that "the more you make, the less it gets". It can only go up, due to problems with the ground they are trying to go into, or road crossings, etc. Also, the huge amount of concrete they would use would drive the price of concrete up. While it wouldn't be the same amount, the Hoover Dam caused a huge jump in price of concrete when it was built. Also, the prices on the monorail trains would also go up, because I'm sure Bombadier only has a certain capacity, and that would have to be upped to add in the large number of trains Disney would need.

Then you should say it that way . in your original statement you implied that cost per mile would go up as the track got longer. Not that it's more expensive for Disney on the same length because they have more trains.

I also don't agree with your statement that costs can only go up. We were talking average cost per mile. Obviously total cost goes up, but you're implying that no matter what happens the average price per mile can only go up. I find that one hard to swallow. Whats the case when the ciritical part of the monorail runs over a bunch of roads, and is the swampiest section of property. Then to run a further spur it has to go over solid land with no road crossings. You're saying that the average price goes up?

With regards to trains, you seem to be implying that because you need more trains, the price of each train goes up. Is that what you're saying?

 

[mickhyperion]

What is the argument against the original transportation concept for WDW which would have utilized PeopleMover hubs along the monorail lines to take guests to the resorts and other short distance destinations? Are they considered too expensive or unsafe or impractical due to the weather? It seems like they would be a good idea since they would run continuously with almost no waiting. It would also lessen the number of monorail lines needed to go everywhere.

 

[optjay]

This monorail idea sounds GREAT, which park would this attraction be placed?

 

[LudwigVonDrake]

While expanding the Monorail would be great, it probably isn't happening anytime soon - if at all

 

[TurboCaroline]

I say they build the expansion in phases. Start with a line going to MGM and see how that pans out. I enjoy riding the monorail. I stay at Pop Century and take the busses to the parks but make a point to at least ride the monorail from Epcot to MK and back at least once to say I did it. The busses are convenient when it is near your room but if it were a monorail station or peoplemover that would be great too. Whatever Disney decides to do, if ever, would be a great addition to an already wonderful theme park!