Monorail Expansion...maybe..

[SimonLee5282]

Monorails are reliable

I believe that monorails are the most reliable form of rapid tranist.



Here is the website.

www.monorails.org

 

[peter11435]

In all due respect Peter, are you an insider who knows for sure? Are you in on their meetings and know exactly what they talk about? Did you conduct their surveys? Unless you are on the inside, then you really cannot say THEY KNOW.... Maybe YOU think this, and others on this site think this, but you cannot say Disney KNOWS this...

The fact is it should be obvious to anyone after reading what has been posted here, especially from posters such as Tyler who have experience in the field. That monorail is not the solution for WDW. The fact is, yes I do mean fact, that the WDW transit patters are best suited forThe fact is it should be obvious to anyone after reading what has been posted here, especially from posters such as Tyler who have experience in the field. That monorail is not the solution for WDW. The fact is, yes I do mean fact, that the WDW transit patters are best suited for a bus system. This is why Disney has invested in hundreds of buses over the past 20 years, and continues to do so, while not once going back to monorails. The fact that Disney has continued to expand the bus system with the 71 new Nova LFS buses a few years ago, and the new Gillig Advantages they have recently added to the system shows that yes, Disney KNOWS this. a bus sytem. This is why Disney has invested in hundreds of buses over the past 20 years, and continues to do so, while not once going back to monorails.

 

[peter11435]

I believe that monorails are the most reliable form of rapid tranist.



Here is the website.

Monorails are the most reliable form of transportation to get from point A to point B when there is a steady stream of people, and you have a backup transit system capable of taking over if it goes down. With Disney's guest flow - lots of guests to the parks in the morning - slow periods in the afternoon - and masses of people all leaving the parks at once at closing. Buses become far more efficient at dealing with Disney's crowds than monorails.

They will often load two buses at the same time at park closing, both going to the same resort, and have another pair ready to pull in immediately when the first pair leaves. This is impossible to do with monorails.

 

[no2apprentice]

But do you have any FACTS to disprove my opinions listed at the end of my earlier comments which you call into question? Opinions as to the validity of my opinions, yes, but not facts that disprove the statements. Hello, where are your facts??????

Nope, but then I never try to say my opinions and speculations are facts. I have no problem with other people's opinions and/or speculations. I have no probelm with facts (as long as they are accurate). But one should not be portrayed as the other. It causes problems, and there are enough problems in the world.

And, looking back on my thread, I can see where I pushed my points in an unkind way. Sorry if I offended, that was not my intent.

And I think that's why monorail theads (and other threads with similar subjects) can get so....shall we say passionate. There is no hard facts, evidence, or examples that can tell us how much (within a 5% error) how much it would cost to expand the monorail, especially when we don't even know what expansion would work the best (if it can be made to work at all). And to add to that, as long as some people feel that Disney "magic" can think past the logistical obstacles to make an expansion that WORKS, without guest congestion, confusion, and ineffeciency, then the debate will never end.

As far as quoting figures from other monorail projects, I'm not sure that this is entirely fair to either viewpoint. With each monorail project, I would guess prices of materials and labor would be different from one project to another, based on local economy, costs, and the bidding process some local governments require.

I quoted Tyler's post from two years ago, because, as he stated, it's based on numbers that he's seen and from talking to people involved with the monorails. As far as cost, even if he's off by 20% in his $1 billion estimate, that's still $800,000,000. He was a monorail pilot, and a bus driver. He has seen first hand, how inefficient the monorail can be for guest flow at WDW.

So for me, my opinion, my concern, my focus of harmonious energy flow, my bottom line is...if it's not going to be efficient, why spend such a great deal of money for an expansion?

 

[SimonLee5282]

Monorails are the most reliable form of transportation to get from point A to point B when there is a steady stream of people, and you have a backup transit system capable of taking over if it goes down. With Disney's guest flow - lots of guests to the parks in the morning - slow periods in the afternoon - and masses of people all leaving the parks at once at closing. Buses become far more efficient at dealing with Disney's crowds than monorails.

They will often load two buses at the same time at park closing, both going to the same resort, and have another pair ready to pull in immediately when the first pair leaves. This is impossible to do with monorails.

Check out the website

www.monorails.org

Just look it up with an open mind. I know this is a disney website, but go to www.monorails.org and just think about the monorail from a transit point of view.

 

[dave2822]

11 solid pages of monorail debating, with great points in both directions

and my conclusion is ..

dear god please help the next poor soul who stumbles upon wdwmagic and thinks about writing a thread about the monorail :lol:

 

[peter11435]

Check out the website

www.monorails.org

Just look it up with an open mind. I know this is a disney website, but go to www.monorails.org and just think about the monorail from a transit point of view.

I have seen that website many times. I love monorail and think they are the best mode of transportation in the world. However that doesn't change the fact that they are not efficient for WDW's needs.

 

[cloudboy]

It's futile.

You can show that there are over 15 active transit grade monorails in operationthroughout the world, yet people will say it is unproven. You can give the names of 5 monorail manufacturers, yet people argue that there is no competition from monorail builders. You can show that no other monorail system has EVER gone as high a cost as 2 billion a mile, and that even the Las Vegas, which was twice what many other systems cost, and INCLUDED land acquisition, is more than 25% cheaper than that, yet they STILL insist it will cost that much. You can dig up whatever data you can find that shows building a monorail beam is not that overly difficult or expensive in Florida, yet they whine that it is impossible to build it in Florida's wet climate, yet all those roads have successfully ben built. You can layout any number of simple, logical routes and schedules, yet people still believe that a monorail cannot work logistically.If you show that a monorail will improve revenues by allowing greater rates for hotel rooms, allow people more time to explore the parks and so spend more money in them, and will prevent people with cars from spending some days at Disney and other days at Universal or Sea World, yet people insist that there is no added value to the monorail.

It because it has nothing to do with logic. People want immediate gratification, and a project like the monorail, even though it would in the long run keep more guests in the park, and even though it would allow guests to enjoy gates like Animal Kingdom more because it is easier to get to, thus leading to more demand for rides in those parks, and even though it would give people an extra couple of hundred dollars to spend in the parks that they otherwise would have spent on a rental car, and even though it would mean more people IN the parks, since they are spending less time waiting for busses to show up, and even though you can show a scheduling systemt that would move more people faster than busses, and NOT create any traffic issues at the park buss stops, the monorail project does not give you immediate gratification. We simply cannot see long term or invest long term. We want somethig new RIGHT NOW, no matter if that hardly brings in enough new guest over three years before that attraction becomes old hat, or that people already pass up stuff on their vacation, so what is another ride?

The simple lfact is that people don't want to see any money spent on anything other than rides, and even if it means long term problems, they don't matter, because that is the future and who cares about what will happen in the future.

 

[mattb]

Bravo, cloudboy! Well said.

And I agree totally.

 

[ONUpolarbears]

cloudboy......ditto

 

[ctwhalerman]

Hmmm...expand the monorail system...

I think I'll be riding a Second Avenue Subway, the LIRR into Grand Central, and an Airtrain from Lower Manhattan all at the same time before I'll be able to ride an extended WDW Monorail.

In other words, it just is not happening
Just like these New York transportation good ideas, the cost is just too high, and there is simply not the will to get things done. Also, the project is just too long term for a large enough expansion that everyone will be afraid to do it. Think about it, if the guy who had your job before you planned on spending billions of dollars with little liquid return, you would either cancel or severely limit the expansion because it will show up as a large red blemish on your resume. And with the way the Disney executives work today, unfortunately, I just can't see it happening.

 

[thedisneyfan]

In the end I see Disney Bus only roads being constructed to bypass the traffic.

And exactly how cheap and practical will that be? Having bus only roads running all over the place?

 

[thedisneyfan]

Congratulations! :sohappy: :sohappy: :sohappy:
You have added probably the most intelligent well thought out and realistic solution to transportation woes at WDW. My hat is off to you

Really? Refer to post above.

 

[thedisneyfan]

It's futile.

You can show that there are over 15 active transit grade monorails in operationthroughout the world, yet people will say it is unproven. You can give the names of 5 monorail manufacturers, yet people argue that there is no competition from monorail builders. You can show that no other monorail system has EVER gone as high a cost as 2 billion a mile, and that even the Las Vegas, which was twice what many other systems cost, and INCLUDED land acquisition, is more than 25% cheaper than that, yet they STILL insist it will cost that much. You can dig up whatever data you can find that shows building a monorail beam is not that overly difficult or expensive in Florida, yet they whine that it is impossible to build it in Florida's wet climate, yet all those roads have successfully ben built. You can layout any number of simple, logical routes and schedules, yet people still believe that a monorail cannot work logistically.If you show that a monorail will improve revenues by allowing greater rates for hotel rooms, allow people more time to explore the parks and so spend more money in them, and will prevent people with cars from spending some days at Disney and other days at Universal or Sea World, yet people insist that there is no added value to the monorail.

It because it has nothing to do with logic. People want immediate gratification, and a project like the monorail, even though it would in the long run keep more guests in the park, and even though it would allow guests to enjoy gates like Animal Kingdom more because it is easier to get to, thus leading to more demand for rides in those parks, and even though it would give people an extra couple of hundred dollars to spend in the parks that they otherwise would have spent on a rental car, and even though it would mean more people IN the parks, since they are spending less time waiting for busses to show up, and even though you can show a scheduling systemt that would move more people faster than busses, and NOT create any traffic issues at the park buss stops, the monorail project does not give you immediate gratification. We simply cannot see long term or invest long term. We want somethig new RIGHT NOW, no matter if that hardly brings in enough new guest over three years before that attraction becomes old hat, or that people already pass up stuff on their vacation, so what is another ride?

The simple lfact is that people don't want to see any money spent on anything other than rides, and even if it means long term problems, they don't matter, because that is the future and who cares about what will happen in the future.

:sohappy: :sohappy: :sohappy:
Bravo! Bravo! Bravissimo!
In ten years we'll be asking why didn't they do the monorail expansion in 2006 or 2007? By the way it doesn't all have to be started and completed in a year. It could be completed in phases.

 

[Woody13]

:sohappy: :sohappy: :sohappy:
Bravo! Bravo! Bravissimo!
In ten years we'll be asking why didn't they do the monorail expansion in 2006 or 2007? By the way it doesn't all have to be started and completed in a year. It could be completed in phases.

I agree. Phase one, catapults and huge catching nets.

 

[peter11435]

It's futile.

You can show that there are over 15 active transit grade monorails in operationthroughout the world, yet people will say it is unproven. You can give the names of 5 monorail manufacturers, yet people argue that there is no competition from monorail builders. You can show that no other monorail system has EVER gone as high a cost as 2 billion a mile, and that even the Las Vegas, which was twice what many other systems cost, and INCLUDED land acquisition, is more than 25% cheaper than that, yet they STILL insist it will cost that much. You can dig up whatever data you can find that shows building a monorail beam is not that overly difficult or expensive in Florida, yet they whine that it is impossible to build it in Florida's wet climate, yet all those roads have successfully ben built. You can layout any number of simple, logical routes and schedules, yet people still believe that a monorail cannot work logistically.If you show that a monorail will improve revenues by allowing greater rates for hotel rooms, allow people more time to explore the parks and so spend more money in them, and will prevent people with cars from spending some days at Disney and other days at Universal or Sea World, yet people insist that there is no added value to the monorail.

It because it has nothing to do with logic. People want immediate gratification, and a project like the monorail, even though it would in the long run keep more guests in the park, and even though it would allow guests to enjoy gates like Animal Kingdom more because it is easier to get to, thus leading to more demand for rides in those parks, and even though it would give people an extra couple of hundred dollars to spend in the parks that they otherwise would have spent on a rental car, and even though it would mean more people IN the parks, since they are spending less time waiting for busses to show up, and even though you can show a scheduling systemt that would move more people faster than busses, and NOT create any traffic issues at the park buss stops, the monorail project does not give you immediate gratification. We simply cannot see long term or invest long term. We want somethig new RIGHT NOW, no matter if that hardly brings in enough new guest over three years before that attraction becomes old hat, or that people already pass up stuff on their vacation, so what is another ride?

The simple lfact is that people don't want to see any money spent on anything other than rides, and even if it means long term problems, they don't matter, because that is the future and who cares about what will happen in the future.

Wow. You totaly missed the point. I think we would all love to be able to take the monorail all over property. However those of us who can put our wishes aside and look at the pros and cons can see that monorail would only cause many problems for WDW. When the current monorail system goes down Disney brings in the buses. What would they do if monorails were the primary transit system.

 

[Master Yoda]

And exactly how cheap and practical will that be? Having bus only roads running all over the place?

About a thousand times more practical than the monorail. First of all the cost of paving a 2 lane road is far less than erecting monorail track. The operating cost on the busses is far less than the monorail. The buss only lane permits the flexibility that the monorail would not. As far as the roads being all over the place they could follow the same path that a new monorail would.

 

[Cjstephens15]

I think it would be nice to expand it down into animal kingdom, blizard beach, ect. It would be better for people who stayed around the magic kingdom so they don't have to take the bus.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Wow. You totaly missed the point. I think we would all love to be able to take the monorail all over property. However those of us who can put our wishes aside and look at the pros and cons can see that monorail would only cause many problems for WDW. When the current monorail system goes down Disney brings in the buses. What would they do if monorails were the primary transit system.

Peter, no one is saying the monorail should be the primary transit system. Everyone makes a good point about why Disney should expand and why they shouldn't expand. And adding more busses does not prove to me that Disney will not expand the monorail. I agree that expanding the monorail will be expensive. But, I am not a decision maker with Disney and neither are you. And, no one on here is posting FACTS. Everyone is posting speculations. I really do not think anyone on this site actually went out and did a 6 month survey of the cost of monorails. So, we cannot sit here and say with any certainty that the monorails will be a failure or a god send.

Do I think the monorails will be expanded, NO. Do I hope they get expanded? I have no opinion. I love riding the monorail when I am in Disney though. But also, I will not pretend, like so many of you do, that I know all there is to know about the cost and efficiency of these monorails. As with everything else Disney, sit back and wait until you see ground breaking, construction, and receive an official press release.

 

[Laura]

I think the idea of the busses having their own seperate roads is a good one. Like their own "bus interstate" where there's no stops, only exits for the parks and resorts. Then it would only take a couple minutes to get from resort to park.