Monorail Accident

[CoasterKing]

Spare me, where is this perfect world you live in because it certainly isn't Disney or anywhere else here on Planet Earth.:shrug:

The only thing plain & simple is accidents happen every day, everywhere. Sadly, that day one of them just happened to be on that rail.

All of these "simple" safeguards you mention will only minimize accidents, but NEVER prevent them.

Yes, accidents do happen everyday and will continue to happen. I never said they didn't. I don't live in a perfect world, as there never will be a perfect world. I also don't live in a your let's wait for an accident to happen world. Nobody can possibly anticipate every possible outcome from every situation, but to not see the most obvious problem areas is poor at best. Is it not good procedure to try to anticipate problems and fix them before they happen?

You are right, my "simple" safeguards (such as "Stay in the Control Tower at all times. Do not wander onto the train station.") will not prevent all accidents, but it would have prevented this one if the CM would have been in the tower to notice.

CoasterKing

 

[robbwilder]

This is a very sad and tragic happening, that could have been avoided by one or two simple safeguards.

1) The "Control Tower" station at TTC should always be manned during train switching from one line to another. This is where the highest likelihood of a problem (such as collision due to not switching properly) could occur. They could and probably should require the "Control Tower" station at TTC to be manned in ALL situations !! Easy fix, don't allow the person in the "Control Tower" to wander all about TTC. Simple as that!!

2) Have a separate warning button in monorail cabs for when switches are being used. (Instead of one button with both the proximity alarm to other trains and the switches being open.)

And, IMHO, just because there has been no fatalities for 38 years does not mean the safety protocols used are good. It was a ticking time bomb just waiting to explode. Many, many easy no-brainer enhancements (See #1) could have been employed to prevent this tragedy.

Now, someone has died. I want everyone who has posted to this thread who basically have said "If its not broke, don't fix it" to attend Austin's funeral and go up to his Mom and Dad and say, " Your son is the only fatality for 38 years of the Monorail. Not bad, huh??"

I am so sorry, but this never should have happened. NEVER! Please forgive my rant, but one death that should have been avoided is one death too many, IMHO.

P.S. - There are also many other fixes (as already mentioned in earlier posts) that should have already been in place.

CoasterKing

Its REAL easy to pick out EVERYTHING that is wrong with the system AFTER the Fact. Its really easy to stand on the soapbox and preach on the corner after this one.But what gives you the right to infer that anyone on this board has shown anything but remorse and grief over this incident. Not one post has someone said "Its still not broke dont fix it" but yet you are infering that anyone who took the It hadnt happened in 38 years approach should go apologize to this kids parents. No one has said that it shouldnt be fixed. This is a tragic accident and you even say Alot of ideas said in this thread should be implimented. If you had all these ideas of fixing the monorail system BEFORE this happened you should have spoke up about it. If you did and didnt say anything about it YOU should apologize for this kids parents for not speaking up sooner. You are playing armchair quarterback right along with the rest of them.No one on this board has blood on there hands unless we are the ones personally responsible. Changes should and will happen but its not something the average person would have thought about on July 4th and before. I didnt think about it and I WAS on PURPLE and PINK monorail hours before this happened that night. . You dont think about these pilots getting you there safely EVERY Time you step on to the monorails but I do now. Why, because this happens, and it makes you appreciate life alot more. My heart goes out to Austins Family and friends, His fellow Castmembers, The driver of Pink Monorail. The guy that was supposed to be in control. The guy that threw the switch to switch pink to express. The castmembers on the concourse. I feel for all of these people because they will play what IF for the rest of there lives about this. These are the people who are REALLY living this not some people who are debating safety protocols AFTER the fact on a Disney fan board.

 

[rcapolete]

I was trying to avoid the "Been there, done that" approach... :shrug:


:lol:

if only there was a whole wiki page about you knowledge in safety accident maybe some people would listen up more and not flame you for your opinon

 

[tomm4004]

How long after the collision did the rescue crew reach Austin? And how many times (if any) were the trains moved in between? Just curious.

 

[board57796]

Just trying to figure the WHY behind this, and I think I understand. Evidently the trains were assembled onto the beam with Cab 1 facing the MK, and no matter what beam it operates on during the day, when it does go back to shop at night (or the next night if it's one of the two left out on a beam that night), Cab 1 will still be facing the MK.

So given the direction of "normal" travel on each beam, Resort is always piloted from Cab 6, Express is always piloted from Cab 1, and EPCOT is always piloted from Cab 1.

You are exactly right.

Express/Epcot: Cab 1 is "forward"
Resort: Cab 6 is forward

In shop, Cab 1 of each train is facing out. This allows the train to go straight onto Express, and operate from Cab 1. Like you said, Resort trains operate from Cab 6, so to get these trains out you can either:

1) Reverse the trains out of shop (good pilots are only selected for this) and then once you reach the switches for Express/Resort you drive forward onto the Resort beam and operate normally.

2) Take the train out in Forward, as if you were going onto Express (Cab 1) then reverse through the Resort/Express switch, up to the Contemp, then switch cabs. Obviously, this takes longer than reversing the train out of Shop, because of the time it takes to switch from Cab 1 to Cab 6 at Contemp.

Neither of those two scenarios will be used anymore, as no trains are to be driven in reverse anymore. Now, to get a train onto Resorts, it will be brought out from Cab 1 all the way to the MK Express platform, where the pilot will switch to Cab 6, continue in forward "in the wrong direction" down Express, then through the switch to Resorts. Like I said a few posts ago, this will greatly increase the time it takes to bring trains on/off the system, but I understand the push to make it this way.

Epcot trains are brought out the same as Express, and continue around to TTC and drive straight through the switches onto Epcot beam.

 

[fotofx]

Just came across this.. Nothing really new but it confirms they are investigating.
http://www.ntsb.gov/Pressrel/2009/090706a.html

 

[CoasterKing]

Its REAL easy to pick out EVERYTHING that is wrong with the system AFTER the Fact. Its really easy to stand on the soapbox and preach on the corner after this one.But what gives you the right to infer that anyone on this board has shown anything but remorse and grief over this incident. Not one post has someone said "Its still not broke dont fix it" but yet you are infering that anyone who took the It hadnt happened in 38 years approach should go apologize to this kids parents. No one has said that it shouldnt be fixed. This is a tragic accident and you even say Alot of ideas said in this thread should be implimented. If you had all these ideas of fixing the monorail system BEFORE this happened you should have spoke up about it. If you did and didnt say anything about it YOU should apologize for this kids parents for not speaking up sooner. You are playing armchair quarterback right along with the rest of them.No one on this board has blood on there hands unless we are the ones personally responsible. Changes should and will happen but its not something the average person would have thought about on July 4th and before. I didnt think about it and I WAS on PURPLE and PINK monorail hours before this happened that night. . You dont think about these pilots getting you there safely EVERY Time you step on to the monorails but I do now. Why, because this happens, and it makes you appreciate life alot more. My heart goes out to Austins Family and friends, His fellow Castmembers, The driver of Pink Monorail. The guy that was supposed to be in control. The guy that threw the switch to switch pink to express. The castmembers on the concourse. I feel for all of these people because they will play what IF for the rest of there lives about this. These are the people who are REALLY living this not some people who are debating safety protocols AFTER the fact on a Disney fan board.

Take a chill pill !! First off, where did I infer that no remorse or grief has been shown on this board. If you bother to read all my posts (and read them correctly), I stated that everyone on this board has shown sorrow and sadness. Secondly, there were many posts that either directly or indirectly used the "If it's not broke, don't fix it." axiom to justify this accident. They are very sorry and saddened that it happened also. Everyone is, okay!! Read my posts !!

I don't have first-hand knowledge of all the monorail safety protocols and was not aware that the current safety protocol (before the accident) allowed the Control Tower to not be manned at all times. I can not put in a suggestion to Disney about something that I didn't know about. But, now that I do, I would like to suggest to Disney that the Control Tower be manned at all times.

But, IMHO, I believe that is reasonable and responsible of Disney, that requiring the Control Tower to be manned at all times should have been a safety rule. Can you not understand how critical that is ? That is not unreasonable at all. And the fact that a fatality has not occurred in 38 years is not a good excuse to me, when such a simple and common sense solution was available.

Dude, I have come nowhere close to saying anybody on this board has blood on their hands. And nobody does. As I have already said before, everyone on this board is very upset and sorry that it happened.

All I am trying to say is 1) that a key safety procedure was overlooked by Disney by allowing a Control Tower to be unmanned during critical train switching. And 2) to say that the ol' "because no fatalities have occured in 38 years then it's not broken, so don't fix it" excuse is not acceptable and insensitive, especially in this case.

CoasterKing

 

[board57796]

You dont think about these pilots getting you there safely EVERY Time you step on to the monorails but I do now. Why, because this happens, and it makes you appreciate life alot more. My heart goes out to Austins Family and friends, His fellow Castmembers, The driver of Pink Monorail. The guy that was supposed to be in control. The guy that threw the switch to switch pink to express. The castmembers on the concourse. I feel for all of these people because they will play what IF for the rest of there lives about this. These are the people who are REALLY living this not some people who are debating safety protocols AFTER the fact on a Disney fan board.

One of a Pilot's biggest pet peaves is the Guest who asks "So do you really do anything here?" I doubt we will be hearing much of that after this incident, not that it really matters, as a life has been lost and others devestated.

 

[robbwilder]

Take a chill pill !! First off, where did I infer that no remorse or grief has been shown on this board. If you bother to read all my posts (and read them correctly), I stated that everyone on this board has shown sorrow and sadness. Secondly, there were many posts that either directly or indirectly used the "If it's not broke, don't fix it." axiom to justify this accident. They are very sorry and saddened that it happened also. Everyone is, okay!! Read my posts !!

I don't have first-hand knowledge of all the monorail safety protocols and was not aware that the current safety protocol (before the accident) allowed the Control Tower to not be manned at all times. I can not put in a suggestion to Disney about something that I didn't know about. But, now that I do, I would like to suggest to Disney that the Control Tower be manned at all times.

But, IMHO, I believe that is reasonable and responsible of Disney, that requiring the Control Tower to be manned at all times should have been a safety rule. Can you not understand how critical that is ? That is not unreasonable at all. And the fact that a fatality has not occurred in 38 years is not a good excuse to me, when such a simple and common sense solution was available.

Dude, I have come nowhere close to saying anybody on this board has blood on their hands. And nobody does. As I have already said before, everyone on this board is very upset and sorry that it happened.

All I am trying to say is 1) that a key safety procedure was overlooked by Disney by allowing a Control Tower to be unmanned during critical train switching. And 2) to say that the ol' "because no fatalities have occured in 38 years then it's not broken, so don't fix it" excuse is not acceptable and insensitive, especially in this case.

CoasterKing

And all of this is easy to say ... After the fact. Its easy to judge after the fact. My point is that no one who has posted anything on this board has said anything insensitive enough that they need to go apologize to this kids parents. That is judging something that has no reason to be judged. At my job I have always said.. It takes a crisis to bring about change. Most people look at things and say its worked all this time with no incident why change now. Unfortunately this happened and that cannot be changed. With that said you said WE dont know WHAT the protocols were. If there is protocol ( I want to say I remember reading this on one of the posts) that someone is supposed to be physically in control during a switch since there is a camera on it? then someone personally is responsible. All the safety protocols in the world wont change the human personality and unfortunately someone paid with there life. You cannot look back and change the past. You can only hope that people learn from it to change the future.

 

[robbwilder]

One of a Pilot's biggest pet peaves is the Guest who asks "So do you really do anything here?" I doubt we will be hearing much of that after this incident, not that it really matters, as a life has been lost and others devestated.

I know that only one platform worker from that night who witnessed the event is back to work. Central, Pinks pilot (who from what I understand is incredibly distraught and will probably never return to rails), the platform workers, as well as the people who were "bumped" out of Pink/Purple (ie the people driving the trains before Austin/the other driver got in) are still too upset to work. I can't say I blame them one ounce.

And my heart truely goes out to them. I cannot even phathom how I would feel if my action caused this right or wrong. They are the ones who truely are going to live this for the rest of there lives. My prayers are with them.

 

[KeeKee]

One of a Pilot's biggest pet peaves is the Guest who asks "So do you really do anything here?" I doubt we will be hearing much of that after this incident, not that it really matters, as a life has been lost and others devestated.

I know that only one platform worker from that night who witnessed the event is back to work. Central, Pinks pilot (who from what I understand is incredibly distraught and will probably never return to rails), the platform workers, as well as the people who were "bumped" out of Pink/Purple (ie the people driving the trains before Austin/the other driver got in) are still too upset to work. I can't say I blame them one ounce.

Thanks for that update. I've been wondering how Pink's pilot was doing. This must be devastating for him/her, as well as the rest of the crew on duty that night.

If you have a way to communicate with them, let them know that many folks are praying for their well being as well as praying for Austin's family.

 

[PhotoDave219]

And all of this is easy to say ... After the fact. Its easy to judge after the fact. My point is that no one who has posted anything on this board has said anything insensitive enough that they need to go apologize to this kids parents. That is judging something that has no reason to be judged. At my job I have always said.. It takes a crisis to bring about change. Most people look at things and say its worked all this time with no incident why change now. Unfortunately this happened and that cannot be changed. With that said you said WE dont know WHAT the protocols were. If there is protocol ( I want to say I remember reading this on one of the posts) that someone is supposed to be physically in control during a switch since there is a camera on it? then someone personally is responsible. All the safety protocols in the world wont change the human personality and unfortunately someone paid with there life. You cannot look back and change the past. You can only hope that people learn from it to change the future.

Ya done?

Any point you're trying to make has been completely killed with that block of text.

The young man didn't deserve to die. I feel for the pilots and the transpo cast. Disney has been lax for years thanks to their continued cuts and management culture that believes that an accident cant happen and as with the BTMRR fatality at DL in California several years back, sometimes it takes someone's death to get changes to happen.

These changes should be for the good and for CAST as well as GUEST safety.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Local news is saying that The Monorail Accident in WDW is now being investigated by National Agencies. Probably NTSB.

That was announced a few days ago, i suppose it got lost amidst all the posts. It should be interesting since the report will be public record.

 

[Figments Friend]

One of a Pilot's biggest pet peaves is the Guest who asks "So do you really do anything here?" I doubt we will be hearing much of that after this incident, not that it really matters, as a life has been lost and others devestated.

I know that only one platform worker from that night who witnessed the event is back to work. Central, Pinks pilot (who from what I understand is incredibly distraught and will probably never return to rails), the platform workers, as well as the people who were "bumped" out of Pink/Purple (ie the people driving the trains before Austin/the other driver got in) are still too upset to work. I can't say I blame them one ounce.

I really feel for Pink's pilot. God...just imagine what this CM is going through..not to mention the others who were 'bumped' from the positions before this happened.

Please send them our support and love!

"One Rail , One Family"

 

[robbwilder]

Ya done?

Any point you're trying to make has been completely killed with that block of text.

The young man didn't deserve to die. I feel for the pilots and the transpo cast. Disney has been lax for years thanks to their continued cuts and management culture that believes that an accident cant happen and as with the BTMRR fatality at DL in California several years back, sometimes it takes someone's death to get changes to happen.

These changes should be for the good and for CAST as well as GUEST safety.

Thanks for summarizing what I said.

 

[mkt]

Quoting in agreement and bolding the truest parts.

Ya done?

Any point you're trying to make has been completely killed with that block of text.

The young man didn't deserve to die. I feel for the pilots and the transpo cast. Disney has been lax for years thanks to their continued cuts and management culture that believes that an accident cant happen and as with the BTMRR fatality at DL in California several years back, sometimes it takes someone's death to get changes to happen.

These changes should be for the good and for CAST as well as GUEST safety.

And to add, I hope the changes are real and substantial, and not simply making minimal visible changes to put the public and CM's at ease.

 

[PhotoDave219]

And to add, I hope the changes are real and substantial, and not simply making minimal visible changes to put the public and CM's at ease.

The NTSB investigation should help with that. Its the public perception & relations and not any law that will help with this.

Could you imagine Jason Garcia having a field day with the Mouse if they don't implement the NTSB recommendations?

And has anyone realized how close this came to being a complete catastrophe? Those guests were in the first car, directly behind the cab. (Based on video and an interview with Fox35). I can't fathom what would have happened if those guests had been injured.

 

[RiversideBunny]

...And has anyone realized how close this came to being a complete catastrophe? Those guests were in the first car, directly behind the cab. (Based on video and an interview with Fox35). I can't fathom what would have happened if those guests had been injured.

Or if guests had been riding up front with the pilot.

 

[robbwilder]

The NTSB investigation should help with that. Its the public perception & relations and not any law that will help with this.

Could you imagine Jason Garcia having a field day with the Mouse if they don't implement the NTSB recommendations?

And has anyone realized how close this came to being a complete catastrophe? Those guests were in the first car, directly behind the cab. (Based on video and an interview with Fox35). I can't fathom what would have happened if those guests had been injured.

I cant fathom if 4 of those guests were riding in the cockpit...

 

[board57796]

Or if guests had been riding up front with the pilot.

Also, at that time of night if there is only one family, and they are at car 1 like that family, the CMs on the platform usually say "Hey do you guys want to ride in the front?!" and I am shocked that didn't happen this time. Luckily. Although sometimes, that late, the pilots usually appreciate the platform CMs not being so "enthusiastic" about offering that, as its nice to have a lap or two to relax and be alone, especially if we know a switch is coming up (easier to listen to the radio, concentrate, without people asking questions.)