Monorail Accident

[soarin' cisco]

After reading that he did try to prevent the collision and was move concerned about the passengers Austin is most certainly a hero in my book.

JML: I personally believe a "kill all" switch would be a very important last ditch safety measure that should be installed. Personally I would take the lesser of two evils...the first being inconvenienced guests and CMs...the second being a collision or worse.

Also, someone brought up the question about whether Monorail Purple would return in memory of Austin. I can not say if this will happen, but as much as it would be a nice tribute I can not see it happening due to the feelings that CMs that pilot it may encounter.

May Austin now spend time with Walt and the Great Imagineer himself.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

The feeling you get when you almost overrun (go past a holdpoint) and are about to get a RED is an awful feeling (I've never overran, but I've cut it pretty close) and you remember it for a while. I can't begin to imagine seeing that train coming towards him. He did everything he could to save his passengers. He could have jumped and lived. Instead he wanted to save his train and passengers, and died. Hero to me.

Yes. Well said.

 

[Mimi]

This is so very sad. My heart aches for Austin and his family... also for everyone who was involved in the situation.

I hope that with time we will all be able to heal the wounds and that Disney will be able to take steps to prevent a similar catastrophe. I also hope that we will not forget. For now, let us remember that God works in mysterious ways.

I know that Austin was taken from all of us for a reason and at the time God chose. He was so young but just think of how many people are affected by his death. It has shaken many, many people... and many, many people will carry Austin with them in their hearts for a long time. (How many threads do you think will be started about us when we pass?) Hopefully we will learn that our lives can end at any time and that we should make the most of every day and remember that every interaction we have with others could effect them deeply. Most of us did not know Austin personally if at all, but we still feel the loss. I did not know him but I now see a good young man; someone with a promising future and a kind heart. This is his legacy:

Live every day as if it were your last. Remember Austin.

 

[Cannon3]

So, the Rail's Manager on-duty was not on property, but was at a restaurant in LBV giving commands via radio? Are you kidding me? I could understand if he was on not in the Control Tower and was on the platform helping with guests, but to not even be on property? Wow.

 

[deix15x8]

I'm pretty sure that would have been his first reaction, but if anyone else was making a radio call at that time he would not have been able to get through. With up to 12 trains, 4 coordinators, Central, Shop, Managers using the same frequency, you can imagine it may be tough to call. My first thing I would have thought is to yell "PINK HIT YOUR ESTOP" into the radio and blared on my horn, maybe attracting one of the platform CMs attention, or the driver of Pink's.

I've been thinking about the horn on this incident. I can't imagine that Austin would not have hit the horn at some point. At the same time I can understand pink ignoring him. Another thread about past incidents that was linked to in the first few pages talked about not being allowed to use the horns but they are used anyway when passing another monorail as a way to say hi. Since pink knew purple was going to be entering the TTC on the Epcot line and knowing that in 38 years there has never been an accident I'm sure the first thing pink thought of when hearing the horn was, "I'll say hi back as i pass". I highly doubt that anything would have told him, "hey purple is behind me something is wrong" until he entered the station and realized the true meaning of it but by that point stopping was impossible. It seem like Disney should consider adding extra pressure on their no horn blowing rule as it may have been able to prevent the incident or at the very least told pink to stop which would have lessened the impact.

 

[PhotoDave219]

So, the Rail's Manager on-duty was not on property, but was at a restaurant in LBV giving commands via radio? Are you kidding me? I could understand if he was on not in the Control Tower and was on the platform helping with guests, but to not even be on property? Wow.

And where is this information coming from? I'm not doubting it, i just hadn't heard that anywhere.

EDIT: Okay, WESH-2 is reporting that. Those are some serious allegations to merely attribute to "Sources."

Now when I was a CM, I'd get termed if i ate in an off-property restaurant while i was supposed to be working.

 

[Figments Friend]

Surely that will be the case....

...their career is pretty much 'over' at WDW.

 

[tomm4004]

I would need to know exactly what the Rail Manager does, what his responsibilities are, before going "Wow." But it does seem odd to a layman.

NTSB report finally shows that Purple was coming from EPCOT and had not yet reached TTC. So that family was coming from EPCOT station at 2am.

 

[Slipknot]

What I don't get after reading the report from NTSB, is why the heck Pink didn't slow down/stop when the front end reached the station, Concourse or otherwise...

 

[board57796]

I've been thinking about the horn on this incident. I can't imagine that Austin would not have hit the horn at some point. At the same time I can understand pink ignoring him. Another thread about past incidents that was linked to in the first few pages talked about not being allowed to use the horns but they are used anyway when passing another monorail as a way to say hi. Since pink knew purple was going to be entering the TTC on the Epcot line and knowing that in 38 years there has never been an accident I'm sure the first thing pink thought of when hearing the horn was, "I'll say hi back as i pass". I highly doubt that anything would have told him, "hey purple is behind me something is wrong" until he entered the station and realized the true meaning of it but by that point stopping was impossible. It seem like Disney should consider adding extra pressure on their no horn blowing rule as it may have been able to prevent the incident or at the very least told pink to stop which would have lessened the impact.

Normally the "Hello" is no more than 2 quick jabs at the button, and we only do it during the day, so not to wake sleeping guests.

I am sure he would have thought more than a quick two toots would be necesary, and any time you hear a horn blaring at 2am would get someones attention. I would have expected it to get the platform CMs attention more than the Pink drivers. Who knows.

 

[board57796]

What I don't get after reading the report from NTSB, is why the heck Pink didn't slow down/stop when the front end reached the station, Concourse or otherwise...

Pink was cleared THROUGH base to the Magic Kingdom, in reverse. Pink was expecting to be traveling 15 mph in reverse through Base on Express until he got a Green MAPO then would resume normal speed.

 

[Slipknot]

Pink was cleared THROUGH base to the Magic Kingdom, in reverse. Pink was expecting to be traveling 15 mph in reverse through Base on Express until he got a Green MAPO then would resume normal speed.

Gotcha... Lost in translation.

Another thing to eat at the Central controller: by changing ONE word in his transmission, the accident would have been prevented. If he had said clear TO base, Pink would have pulled to a stop in the station, not sped through.

That's what I thought too. Isn't it a longer way to MK backwards than forwards?

 

[tomm4004]

Pink was cleared THROUGH base to the Magic Kingdom, in reverse. Pink was expecting to be traveling 15 mph in reverse through Base on Express until he got a Green MAPO then would resume normal speed.

Another thing to eat at the Central controller: by changing ONE word in his transmission, the accident would have been prevented. If he had said clear TO base, Pink would have pulled to a stop in the station, not sped through.

Thanks. That finally makes sense to me now. Pink would have thought he was passing through TTC-MK side station and not noticed the difference.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Pink was cleared THROUGH base to the Magic Kingdom, in reverse. Pink was expecting to be traveling 15 mph in reverse through Base on Express until he got a Green MAPO then would resume normal speed.

Another thing to eat at the Central controller: by changing ONE word in his transmission, the accident would have been prevented. If he had said clear TO base, Pink would have pulled to a stop in the station, not sped through.

Okay, you were in that department. Anything you can shed light on about the Monorail manager being able to eat off-property during a shift? Is this common? Ever hear of it before?

 

[board57796]

That's what I thought too. Isn't it a longer way to MK backwards than forwards?

Yes but either way the pilot has to switch ends (unless he goes into shop backwards, which is only in a busy period of the night if a train has to go out of service) and the break point for the hinge to shop is on the Contemporary-ward side of the beam and the hinge is on the MK-ward side, if that makes sense. Shop would have to move the switch for the train to pass over it, then move it again to take it to shop.

Thanks. That finally makes sense to me now. Pink would have thought he was passing through TTC-MK side station and not noticed the difference.

Speculation here, but I think that just before the impact occured is when the pilot in Pink would have been realizing what was happening. If he didn't realize he was backing into Concourse, instead of Base Express before he was in the station, there's no way he COULDNT have noticed once he was in the station, as the Central tower is RIGHT THERE on your left. If you were in Base on Express Central Tower would be way off to your right. It seems the Pilot was about 40 feet into thestation when the impact occured.

 

[STGRhost]

I have, in the past 4 days, read this entire thread. I have had trouble falling asleep, thinking about this kid, who I never met, and this whole situation. It is all just so tragic. I am heartbroken - not for me, but for his family, his friends, and his extended Disney family (Those of you who have worked in WDW know exactly what a "small world" the place can be, so we know this accident affects MANY CMs, not just those he worked with directly), who are all dealing with something I wouldn't wish on anyone...

I can't decide whether to be happy that the majority of the conversation in this thread has been appropriate and respectful of both the situation and the differences of opinions, or irritated that it seems to finally be devolving into bickering and name calling. I hope that ends soon.

I do have a couple comments. First, re: the Control Tower (is that nomenclature correct? I was never in Transportation.) being "unmanned" - It is my understanding that this person is still in the TTC, somewhere on the platform, and still directing traffic by radio. As there is no radar or GPS or any type of monitor for control to see the trains anyway, it would seem to me that there is no reason for the person with the radio to physically be in the tower as long as he was still available by radio. If my understanding of this is correct, to me this really is not like Air Traffic Control leaving the room - Monorail Central has not abandoned his post, he is simply not physically in the room. At any rate, it does not sound like someone being IN the control tower would have made a difference in this instance.

On another note, some posters have wondered about Disney somehow memorializing Austin. As nice as this sounds, I will be VERY surprised if there is any official, public memorialization on Disney's part. Partly because it would set an odd precedent for them (if they do it in this case, where do they draw the line from now on? What about Ray Barlow (the Custodial CM who died in the Skyway accident) or anyone else who has died at work? or on property? Also, something like that (a physical memorial in a park or on a piece of merchandise) would take guests out of the fantasy. While this accident has affected CMs and people like us, it was likely just a blip on the radar for the average guest, and in a few months few people outside of the situation will even be talking about it. So having a reminder somewhere in the parks would lead to questions and uncomfortable situations for guests, and potentially lessen the magic, which Disney will likely not want to do.

Reading back that last paragraph, I sound much colder than I intended. While I like the fact that people have put together a memorial for Austin (and I certainly believe that he deserves for people to remember him), I can't see Disney making a physical, permanent one simply because it would bring people out of the fantasy (even if only briefly) - they work very hard to make WDW a place for people to leave the real world behind for a while, so I can't see them doing something that would bring them back into that reality like that. Does that make sense?

 

[PhotoDave219]

I won't say much, but I have heard of Managers eating in restraunts both on and off property, mostly at dinner time when another manager is available. When the investigation is complete and released you will see this did not play as large of a role as we think it does now, that is, if what I have heard is correct. Can't really say much more.

I appreciate the candor and respect what you're willing to say. I agree that it looks really bad but probably played no role in the accident.

 

[majortom1981]

I have, in the past 4 days, read this entire thread. I have had trouble falling asleep, thinking about this kid, who I never met, and this whole situation. It is all just so tragic. I am heartbroken - not for me, but for his family, his friends, and his extended Disney family (Those of you who have worked in WDW know exactly what a "small world" the place can be, so we know this accident affects MANY CMs, not just those he worked with directly), who are all dealing with something I wouldn't wish on anyone...

I can't decide whether to be happy that the majority of the conversation in this thread has been appropriate and respectful of both the situation and the differences of opinions, or irritated that it seems to finally be devolving into bickering and name calling. I hope that ends soon.

I do have a couple comments. First, re: the Control Tower (is that nomenclature correct? I was never in Transportation.) being "unmanned" - It is my understanding that this person is still in the TTC, somewhere on the platform, and still directing traffic by radio. As there is no radar or GPS or any type of monitor for control to see the trains anyway, it would seem to me that there is no reason for the person with the radio to physically be in the tower as long as he was still available by radio. If my understanding of this is correct, to me this really is not like Air Traffic Control leaving the room - Monorail Central has not abandoned his post, he is simply not physically in the room. At any rate, it does not sound like someone being IN the control tower would have made a difference in this instance.

On another note, some posters have wondered about Disney somehow memorializing Austin. As nice as this sounds, I will be VERY surprised if there is any official, public memorialization on Disney's part. Partly because it would set an odd precedent for them (if they do it in this case, where do they draw the line from now on? What about Ray Barlow (the Custodial CM who died in the Skyway accident) or anyone else who has died at work? or on property? Also, something like that (a physical memorial in a park or on a piece of merchandise) would take guests out of the fantasy. While this accident has affected CMs and people like us, it was likely just a blip on the radar for the average guest, and in a few months few people outside of the situation will even be talking about it. So having a reminder somewhere in the parks would lead to questions and uncomfortable situations for guests, and potentially lessen the magic, which Disney will likely not want to do.

Reading back that last paragraph, I sound much colder than I intended. While I like the fact that people have put together a memorial for Austin (and I certainly believe that he deserves for people to remember him), I can't see Disney making a physical, permanent one simply because it would bring people out of the fantasy (even if only briefly) - they work very hard to make WDW a place for people to leave the real world behind for a while, so I can't see them doing something that would bring them back into that reality like that. Does that make sense?

I think board said that the control tower board does show what the switch is doing but the monorail board in the train itself doesnt. (i could be wrong)

 

[board57796]

I think board said that the control tower board does show what the switch is doing but the monorail board in the train itself doesnt. (i could be wrong)

Correct. Central has a diagram of all beams and switches, which are colored Red or Green depending on if they have power. Shop's switch set up is a bit more complex, with video cameras, more detailed information about the switches, etc. Shop is in charge of throwing switches, Central gives them the instruction the train is in place, and Shop switches it and notifies Central when its complete.

 

[MarkIV_railie]

I won't say much, but I have heard of Managers eating in restraunts both on and off property, mostly at dinner time when another manager is available. When the investigation is complete and released you will see this did not play as large of a role as we think it does now, that is, if what I have heard is correct. Can't really say much more.

To clarify, we are talking about the MANAGER here (aka Monorail One on the radio), right? Do we know where Central was?

Since the Manager is not really (at least in my era) involved in the routine minute-to-minute running of the system, them being away from the system is probably irrelevant.

Someplace in this thread, somebody mentioned "Nextel". Is "Nextel" a manager and Central coordinator level only communication tool? Are the train and lead radios still the same basic repeater system as we had 25 years ago?