MM+ Why we can't have nice things.

[englanddg]

Exactly. The board is full of experts who haven't used the system. Yet they are more than willing to dream up with numerous scenarios and couch their argument as fact.

The base fact is that most do not know of what they speak.

And yet both of you have regularly dismissed or denied those who have used it (and they posted their experiences, including myself).

You also both dismiss the reports coming in from this (and other Disney forums *forbid*) of people not happy with the system.

Recently an AP and TIW holder whom I am rather close with from another forum posted her thoughts of MM+...it was meh. She's losing the magic. Another person, an Englishman, from the same forum, who drops tens of thousands for his trips, also is meh about it.

You can put lipstick on a pig...

 

[ford91exploder]

That was one of the more obvious "pits of doom" to avoid. I actually think the RFID wristband payments system and synchronization to room keys and park tickets is a reasonable tech advance for any theme park/resort to pursue. It's everything that has to do with "attractions management" and "guest throughput" where you begin to see that this has gone horribly wrong.

Using a RFID system is the only thing that makes sense because card readers at the outside have 1M swipes before heads wear out no matter how well maintained they are its just mechanical wear by magnetized rust (iron oxide).

I wondered why Disney had not adopted a RFID system long ago simply for maintenance reduction.

 

[englanddg]

Yup. And more than once I have asked theme park operators "how many barcodes do you possibly think can be produced to prevent fraud 100% of the time?"

To say nothing of mag stripes. I dunno what the hell WDW was thinking going with those.

Of all of the MM+ concerns, fraud is actually very low on my list.

But, then again, I buy a prepaid Amex and attach that to my hotel. So...

I'm paranoid like that.

 

[Recon443]

You don't want your What Would Walt Do? bracelet?

I don't know......how would his original vision of EPCOT have done? OMG how would it have been received on this board? Can you imagine the howls of derision?

 

[englanddg]

Using a RFID system is the only thing that makes sense because card readers at the outside have 1M swipes before heads wear out no matter how well maintained they are its just mechanical wear by magnetized rust (iron oxide).

I wondered why Disney had not adopted a RFID system long ago simply for maintenance reduction.

Exactly.

 

[ford91exploder]

And yet both of you have regularly dismissed or denied those who have used it (and they posted their experiences, including myself).

You also both dismiss the reports coming in from this (and other Disney forums *forbid*) of people not happy with the system.

Recently an AP and TIW holder whom I am rather close with from another forum posted her thoughts of MM+...it was meh. She's losing the magic. Another person, an Englishman, from the same forum, who drops tens of thousands for his trips, also is meh about it.

You can put lipstick on a pig...

But it's still a pig

 

[englanddg]

I don't know......how would his original vision of EPCOT have done? OMG how would it have been received on this board? Can you imagine the howls of derision?

Are there endless threads deriding Celebration, Florida?

Because that's the closest we ever got to Progress City, and it's a far cry from the old man's dream.

 

[GoofGoof]

Exactly. The board is full of experts who haven't used the system. Yet they are more than willing to dream up with numerous scenarios and couch their argument as fact.

The base fact is that most do not know of what they speak.

I have said this before, but it's worth repeating. You don't need to use the system to have an opinion on it. It is possible to like or dislike the system (at least in theory) without ever having used it. It's also possible to not be a fan of all of the components of the system but still have a positive experience with it overall.

Discussion around MM+ is a lot like a political debate. People generally have picked a side and won't listen to anyone from the other side. If you like the system or support it then everyone who is against it are just doom and gloomers who haven't even used it but are still against it anyway. On the flip side anyone who supports the system is a pixie duster or worse a Disney plant. When you openly support the system and then say it worked flawlessly for you the other side dismisses your experience/report as being overly positive. On the flip side if you openly despise the system and then report back on all of the issues you had the other side will dismiss your report as being overly critical and embellishing problems. Pretty much exactly how a political debate usually goes. Nothing gets accomplished.

 

[SirOinksALot]

Are there endless threads deriding Celebration, Florida?

Because that's the closest we ever got to Progress City, and it's a far cry from the old man's dream.

Pipe down, there's clearly a plastic ice skating rink and soccer moms driving SUVs in the People Mover model.

 

[englanddg]

The cost of the RFID tickets was probably higher than the cost of replacing the swiper every year.

Well, the swiper doesn't require annual replacements. Passive RFID is rather cheap though. When compared to the physical wear and tear, the current readers should last 20 - 30 years, easy.

 

[Recon443]

And yet both of you have regularly dismissed or denied those who have used it (and they posted their experiences, including myself).

You also both dismiss the reports coming in from this (and other Disney forums *forbid*) of people not happy with the system.

Recently an AP and TIW holder whom I am rather close with from another forum posted her thoughts of MM+...it was meh. She's losing the magic. Another person, an Englishman, from the same forum, who drops tens of thousands for his trips, also is meh about it.

You can put lipstick on a pig...

Dismissive? Hardly. I have acknowledged problems with the system and when you pointed out that you could not book two "E" rides, I also noted that was not my experience. (I think that was you.)

As for your two friends, I could offer that is two out of tens of thousands. Am I wrong? No. That is fact. And out of those tens of thousands how many are like me, happy with the system? I don't know, do you?

However, on this board, simply by stating that I had a great experience it was not well received. So I figure why not give back what I get to those who dish it out. You claim you have numbers to back up your claim of system failure? No problem, post them. You claim that that it is a disaster? No problem, back it up. You claim it cost X amount? No problem, back it up. Otherwise it is speculation.

I actually admire 'ford91explorer' who just came out and said something like, "I don't like it and never will despite any evidence." Can't argue that. That is a personal opinion Just don't act like your criticism is fair, when indeed it is not.

 

[Recon443]

Are there endless threads deriding Celebration, Florida?

Because that's the closest we ever got to Progress City, and it's a far cry from the old man's dream.

Can you imagine coming on the board and talking about building a city of tomorrow, with traffic underground, and modern technology? Where is the ROI? How does it make the park experience better? How can they invest billions on some utopia when Uni is killing them with cheaper hotel rooms. And so on......

 

[englanddg]

I have said this before, but it's worth repeating. You don't need to use the system to have an opinion on it. It is possible to like or dislike the system (at least in theory) without ever having used it. It's also possible to not be a fan of all of the components of the system but still have a positive experience with it overall.

Discussion around MM+ is a lot like a political debate. People generally have picked a side and won't listen to anyone from the other side. If you like the system or support it then everyone who is against it are just doom and gloomers who haven't even used it but are still against it anyway. On the flip side anyone who supports the system is a pixie duster or worse a Disney plant. When you openly support the system and then say it worked flawlessly for you the other side dismisses your experience/report as being overly positive. On the flip side if you openly despise the system and then report back on all of the issues you had the other side will dismiss your report as being overly critical and embellishing problems. Pretty much exactly how a political debate usually goes. Nothing gets accomplished.

Very well put. And the truth, as always, lies in the middle.

I thoroughly enjoyed my bands, and actually missed them on my Cruise (someone mentioned they should have done their beta testing with DCL first, and I agree with this wholeheartedly, as the service and quality there would have made up for headaches)...

But, since it was WDW, my band experience was largely painless. And since I work in IT at the level that sees the big picture (not a code monkey) I was able to tell the difference between training and behaviour issues with the front line staff vs systematic issues. System wise (aside from the MDE site) I had very few issues.

And, I enjoyed the band.

On the second half of my trip, I didn't have FP+, but I did have RFID and ADRs. Again, I experienced no real issues.

I don't hate the system. I actually like the system. I just hate to think what we could have gotten for it for the same investment.

I just don't think it is all that groundbreaking. The KTTW did 90% of what the current "band/RFID" does. It certainly won't make me spend any money to go see Disney next year, nor will it attract others I suspect who were not already planning trips. Excellent fireworks, great service, amazing food, fantastic shows and parades, top of the shelf rides, THAT will make me go back...Disney isn't firing on all cylinders in that respect.

This reminds me of when I was learning to manage restaurants...I was the BOH (Back of House, meaning, Kitchen Manager) and I wanted to replace an ice scoop holder. It cost about 40 bucks to get the "corporate approved" version, and I thought, heck, it's only 40 bucks.

My GM was furious. He said, just clean it up! I was indignant and took him back to the ice scoop holder and showed the moldy nasty thing to him and said...it's ruined. He proceeded to remove it from the ice machine, and after 15 minutes with an SOS pad in a sink (mixed with a few other chemicals) the thing looked like new. Then a run through the dishwasher, and it was sanitized and spotless...like it just walked off the assembly line.

My point is...what is new is not always better. And what is better is not always new.

Disney needs to get back to basics with their management of WDW.

I had the pleasure of a trip to Disneyland California nearly a year ago, and I can tell you, the rides were not significantly better. Neither were the lines.

However, the feel of the place...the theme...the fact that Main Street USA (while still quite similar to WDW, is a big shop) didn't FEEL like a big shop like WDW does...the fact that characters still roamed the streets and had random interactions...I could go on...

These are things that set it apart.

I never thought I'd be singing DLC's praises (heck, DLC fans hate I even use that term)...but...the crown lives there.

And, a plastic band...even with a USB drive (if you can't figure out the website, how the heck are you gonna figure out a USB drive...please explain that to me?)...isn't gonna do it.

Colossal waste of money.

Will it pay off? Possibly. If they keep at it. Keep the units updated with the latest tech.

Some have pointed out this should be viewed as a utility expansion, not an experience one, and I think that is the most apt explanation. But...how cool is futureworld at Epcot when Magic Kingdom is just as "futuristic"?

Meh...just a big meh from me.

 

[Recon443]

I have said this before, but it's worth repeating. You don't need to use the system to have an opinion on it. It is possible to like or dislike the system (at least in theory) without ever having used it. It's also possible to not be a fan of all of the components of the system but still have a positive experience with it overall.

Discussion around MM+ is a lot like a political debate. People generally have picked a side and won't listen to anyone from the other side. If you like the system or support it then everyone who is against it are just doom and gloomers who haven't even used it but are still against it anyway. On the flip side anyone who supports the system is a pixie duster or worse a Disney plant. When you openly support the system and then say it worked flawlessly for you the other side dismisses your experience/report as being overly positive. On the flip side if you openly despise the system and then report back on all of the issues you had the other side will dismiss your report as being overly critical and embellishing problems. Pretty much exactly how a political debate usually goes. Nothing gets accomplished.

Actually I acknowledge the system will indeed fail. However, most folks cannot acknowledge that it can work.

 

[pheneix]

Of all of the MM+ concerns, fraud is actually very low on my list.

But, then again, I buy a prepaid Amex and attach that to my hotel. So...

I'm paranoid like that.

You'd be amazed at the crazy that goes down at a theme park front gate where barcodes are used as the metric for park entrance. I've seen random milk jugs float by as "valid admission" at parks I've studied.

Those days are more or less over. Especially for Publix milk jug barcodes at Universal Express. That was fun in 2009 while it lasted.

 

[englanddg]

Dismissive? Hardly. I have acknowledged problems with the system and when you pointed out that you could not book two "E" rides, I also noted that was not my experience. (I think that was you.)

As for your two friends, I could offer that is two out of tens of thousands. Am I wrong? No. That is fact. And out of those tens of thousands how many are like me, happy with the system? I don't know, do you?

However, on this board, simply by stating that I had a great experience it was not well received. So I figure why not give back what I get to those who dish it out. You claim you have numbers to back up your claim of system failure? No problem, post them. You claim that that it is a disaster? No problem, back it up. You claim it cost X amount? No problem, back it up. Otherwise it is speculation.

I actually admire 'ford91explorer' who just came out and said something like, "I don't like it and never will despite any evidence." Can't argue that. That is a personal opinion Just don't act like your criticism is fair, when indeed it is not.

Yes, it was me. Because now it's tiered (something the supporters of the system said would never happen, but it did happen).

So, can you blame those who didn't like it from conception when they first heard about it?

I never presented my anecdotal evidence as anything but that. MY experience. MY FRIENDS experience. It is just that, opinions and experience.

You, and others, have presented YOUR anecdotal evidence as primary and overwhelming. And that, is logical fallacy.

 

[englanddg]

You'd be amazed at the crazy **** that goes down at a theme park front gate where barcodes are used as the metric for park entrance. I've seen random milk jugs float by as "valid admission" at parks I've studied.

Those days are more or less over. Especially for Publix milk jug barcodes at Universal Express. That was fun in 2009 while it lasted.

Are you telling me I could have saved all that money at Royal Pacific with a 3 dollar milk jug?

<throttles you for not telling me sooner!>

<grin>

 

[Recon443]

Yes, it was me. Because now it's tiered (something the supporters of the system said would never happen, but it did happen).

So, can you blame those who didn't like it from conception when they first heard about it?

I never presented my anecdotal evidence as anything but that. MY experience. MY FRIENDS experience. It is just that, opinions and experience.

You, and others, have presented YOUR anecdotal evidence as primary and overwhelming. And that, is logical fallacy.

I have presented my anecdotal evidence as my experience and only my experience. Nothing more, nothing less.

I have challenged others anecdotal evidence, just as mine has been challenged. And that has been a problem. Ok to be challenged, not ok to challenge.

 

[englanddg]

I have presented my anecdotal evidence as my experience and only my experience. Nothing more, nothing less.

I have challenged others anecdotal evidence, just as mine has been challenged. And that has been a problem. Ok to be challenged, not ok to challenge.

Sure it's ok to challenge. It's not ok to make your challenge into fact through anecdote alone.

You haven't done this, that I have seen, but a certain "dad" has, and repeated over and over again that his proof was his own "flawless" experience.

Note, I said you "and others"...

 

[Admiral01]

I don't disagree that MB's are a 'must see' thing at any park. However, they most assuredly made my trip significantly more enjoyable and now when I get caught in the mad rush to the paper passes at DCA at opening, I will be thinking, "If they only had MB's and FP+'s....Excuse me, ma'am but you are too slow."

I am happy that the MBs made your trip more enjoyable. It is good that you got to experience something that made the trip positive.

As for me, I've never been at DL or DCA for any mad rush in the morning. I have, however, shown up after work and on weekends while in SoCal, and still been able to get FastPasses, and get onto rides in 20 minutes that at WDW have 2 hour standby times. On Wednesday last week, amidst large crowds at both California parks, Indiana Jones still had FastPasses available into the 7 PM hour. I can't say the same for comparable rides at WDW now that MM+ and FP+ are in place.