MM+ Why we can't have nice things.

[ford91exploder]

Wow....just...wow

Let's put it this way I saw this same scenario play out over and over at a Major Airline which was somewhat famous for playing fast and loose with maintenance records and who recently went bankrupt and merged with another carrier.

Who purchased us because we had bought 5 years of production for RJ's which they wanted. They were hit with largest fine ever by FAA because of scenario #2.

I still don't fly that Airline even today.

 

[WDWDad13]

Face meet palm... They're why we will not have nice things until sometime after 2025.

So what was the excuse before NGE?

 

[bhg469]

So what was the excuse before NGE?

Disneyland happened.

 

[pheneix]

How can you say there are attractions you avoid at WDW due to safety concerns and then say those concerns aren't sufficient to warn the general public about? In the realm of real world implication, someone being hurt or killed on a ride that is known to be improperly maintained is a bigger issue than someone losing their job. In fact, if those who are tasked with maintaining the rides know them to be dangerous to the guests and they keep this to themselves in order to stay employed, they deserve to lose their jobs.

The right thing for you and they to do is to let others (without your inside knowledge) know of the dangers so they don't place themselves in jeopardy out of ignorance. If that means someone loses a job, that's a better thing than standing silent while placing others at risk of injury or death. It's not like WDW won't be tossing the maintenance staff under the bus when what has caused you such concern inevitably happens.

You're right on some points. It's probably a thought best kept private, as the "oh crap, I could very easily get a lot of ppl fired if I post this" instinct kicked in as soon as I wrote that. Also, as I said, most of the engineers and technicians on Disney's payroll are dedicated to making sure guests have safe experiences and they do not need to be roped in to concerns I have with certain procedures at certain rides.

There are some WDW attractions I know better than others. If I truly feel that something is not right when I am on site, I will let the local leads and managers know whether or not they have any respect for my opinion as a guest/former employee/3rd party or not (I have, Many times). Especially regarding those procedures. What the internet knows or does not know means little to me when safety is concerned, especially in this environ. You'd be amazed at what never leaks out....

That being said, I know how fast and loose WDW plays with essential maintenance. Eventually the odds will be against them, and the consequences will be catastrophic. Trying to predict when and where on a message board only promotes paranoia and confusion.

But if you want something that resembles a glimpse at what is going on, look at what is happening with the monorail and the down time it will require in early 2014. Do you think this is the only WDW facility that has been used and abused well beyond its operating perimeters in 2013? Remember that the MK and all its associated facilities were originally built to host 8 million guests per year. They're well past that. Trending to 16+ mil in 2013.

 

[pheneix]

Let's put it this way I saw this same scenario play out over and over at a Major Airline which was somewhat famous for playing fast and loose with maintenance records and who recently went bankrupt and merged with another carrier.

Who purchased us because we had bought 5 years of production for RJ's which they wanted. They were hit with largest fine ever by FAA because of scenario #2.

I still don't fly that Airline even today.

Please don't tell me it's the airline I hit platinum medallion status with this year.... Ugh

 

[pheneix]

You did say TWDC will make RCID's debt load look a lot like ED SCA's going forward.

That certainly seems to be the plan. RCID had no idea they'd be subsidizing theme park projects too.

 

[GoofGoof]

Please don't tell me it's the airline I hit platinum medallion status with this year.... Ugh

I assume he was talking about Valujet/AirTran who was bought by Southwest.

 

[englanddg]

I assume he was talking about Valujet/AirTran who was bought by Southwest.

Which, is odd...because I've had only the best experiences on AirTran. Far superior to my experiences with Delta, even though at one point I was platinum with them (I haven't flown much in years...) But, even at my best as a skymiles member, I've had better preflight and on flight service with Airtran than Delta ever dreamed of.

 

[SirOinksALot]

The costs associated with ramping this system up are well beyond anything that was forecast when this project was to be exported to other properties. Just one slightly vague example:

Say you thought you could provide wifi to an entire theme park with, say, 12 units of a very expensive piece of equipment that supposedly would provide stable wifi for the entire facility.

Now discover when you install it that you actually need one of those units for every fifty feet of guest path.

And that's just one of the simple examples.

I was half expecting this example to be the credit card swipers. Or any number of other things.

 

[englanddg]

The costs associated with ramping this system up are well beyond anything that was forecast when this project was to be exported to other properties. Just one slightly vague example:

Say you thought you could provide wifi to an entire theme park with, say, 12 units of a very expensive piece of equipment that supposedly would provide stable wifi for the entire facility.

Now discover when you install it that you actually need one of those units for every fifty feet of guest path.

And that's just one of the simple examples.

I would counter that...IT (or more likely non-IT management) underestimated load.

Casting CAN nets is not new. Whole buildings have done it with common load to what WDW could expect, so have whole cities. I am quite sure their IT isn't clueless (though, many times I have my doubts)...and would have looked at those case studies when designing the system.

However, what I think is more likely is that they outsourced it. The deals were done by middle management who has a lot of political power, but no clue, and IT who is scared of middle management since they carry no political clout.

This is not uncommon. Heck (and I hate to bring this up) look at healthcare.gov. That is EXACTLY what happened. A contractor was hired to develop something well beyond their depth, and middle management bought their sales pitch hook line and sinker because they are not well versed in what it takes to push out a well executed IT project.

 

[pheneix]

I would counter that...IT (or more likely non-IT management) underestimated load.

Casting CAN nets is not new. Whole buildings have done it with common load to what WDW could expect, so have whole cities. I am quite sure their IT isn't clueless (though, many times I have my doubts)...and would have looked at those case studies when designing the system.

However, what I think is more likely is that they outsourced it. The deals were done by middle management who has a lot of political power, but no clue, and IT who is scared of middle management since they carry no political clout.

This is not uncommon. Heck (and I hate to bring this up) look at healthcare.gov. That is EXACTLY what happened. A contractor was hired to develop something well beyond their depth, and middle management bought their sales pitch hook line and sinker because they are not well versed in what it takes to push out a well executed IT project.

This. Totally this. Disney and USA govt and "too big to fail" mentality are not mutually exclusive to either.

I am NOT saying that Disney is colluding with the government, but there is definitely a parallel that can be drawn between PR mechanics between the two. Everybody has to go back to the same rulebook in the end.

 

[Recon443]

The precise number? No, do you? Perhaps you have better channels inside the company to obtain that sort of information....

Present tense: insulting one.

Nope, I have no idea how much it cost and am glad to admit that I don't know, something which others have a problem doing.

 

[ford91exploder]

I assume he was talking about Valujet/AirTran who was bought by Southwest.

It starts with an AA

 

[pheneix]

I was half expecting this example to be the credit card swipers. Or any number of other things.

That was one of the more obvious "pits of doom" to avoid. I actually think the RFID wristband payments system and synchronization to room keys and park tickets is a reasonable tech advance for any theme park/resort to pursue. It's everything that has to do with "attractions management" and "guest throughput" where you begin to see that this has gone horribly wrong.

 

[Recon443]

You could flip that on its head and say, that despite being explained at length, you refuse to accept the changes are going to lessen many peoples experiences compared to previous visits.

I wouldnt say you are insulting, patronising and narcissistic certainly.

You could say that, but most of the anti-MB posts are all speculation.

As for being insulting, the same could easily be said of you, Wasn't it you who wrote that I was stupid simply because I wrote that I had a positive experience? Yes indeed, that was you.

 

[englanddg]

That was one of the more obvious "pits of doom" to avoid. I actually think the RFID wristband payments system and synchronization to room keys and park tickets is a reasonable tech advance for any theme park/resort to pursue. It's everything that has to do with "attractions management" and "guest throughput" where you begin to see that this has gone horribly wrong.

Well, switching to RFID touch vs swipers, at the scope and scale of Disney, is a very smart move.

Maintenance of swipers is actually a rather steep cost to keep them all working at optimal efficiency (over a decade or more) vs RFID readers.

 

[pheneix]

Because a CM's job is more important than the safety of the guest, right?

If you have legitimate, founded, factual concerns about a ride safety, you should probably contact the authorities, CM jobs be damned.

When it comes to that, believe me bro I won't be running here to post things to inflate my ego. Call it the difference between an instinct that "this is not going to end well" vs actionable intelligence of "oh this needs to be fixed NOW!!!!!"

 

[Recon443]

Well no one around here seems to believe it or wants to hear they actually work and work well


They have their theory (most without even using or trying it) and that's all they will stick to

Exactly. The board is full of experts who haven't used the system. Yet they are more than willing to dream up with numerous scenarios and couch their argument as fact.

The base fact is that most do not know of what they speak.

 

[pheneix]

Well, switching to RFID touch vs swipers, at the scope and scale of Disney, is a very smart move.

Maintenance of swipers is actually a rather steep cost to keep them all working at optimal efficiency (over a decade or more) vs RFID readers.

Yup. And more than once I have asked theme park operators "how many barcodes do you possibly think can be produced to prevent fraud 100% of the time?"

To say nothing of mag stripes. I dunno what the hell WDW was thinking going with those.

 

[Recon443]

To a certain extent, but I would argue this point. The $1.5B at Disneyland included the design and engineering (non-recurring costs) for things like Radiator Springs Racers, World of Color, Little Mermaid (which we already have seen the benefit of in Florida), and other things.

Additionally, I don't judge the quality of an investment in Disney parks based on it's exportability. Carsland rocks. Exportable or not, it is now a destination for any Disney park fan. I made a special point to visit just to experience it, and I will be returning.

MM+, while exportable, does not make WDW more of a destination than it was before. Nor would the addition of MM+ make Disneyland, Paris, Hong Kong, or Tokyo more of a destination. If anything, I am less likely to return now that MM+ has been rolled out.

I don't disagree that MB's are a 'must see' thing at any park. However, they most assuredly made my trip significantly more enjoyable and now when I get caught in the mad rush to the paper passes at DCA at opening, I will be thinking, "If they only had MB's and FP+'s....Excuse me, ma'am but you are too slow."