Mission:Space update (confirmed)

[MaximumEd]

They both did some great things, while simultaneously making real blunders. Not as simple as x vs y. They're either both great on any given day, or they both stink on any given day.

 

[Kman101]

It died when Eisner was in office though. That has not changed.

Yep.

Has Iger ever even been spotted in Epcot? Does he know what an Epcot is? Under Iger we got a better Test Track and a Soarin that fits the park (if it's better, that's subjective). But the park really hasn't been touched under him so far. Epcot's problems right now can be laid on Eisner, as much as I liked him.

 

[Kman101]

That's why we can't get nice things. Instead we get MK 2.0.

What we get could be very nice but it's never going to be the same as original flavor Epcot. But even you've said it's dead. Unfortunately that's where we're at.

 

[Kman101]

Them's fightin words!

I could be wrong but I think he meant disasters as in the decisions made regarding them, not that Horizons and original Imagination were disasters, lol

 

[marni1971]

What we get could be very nice .

Without wishing to sound like I'm bragging I pretty know what we're getting.

 

[larryz]

Yep.

Has Iger ever even been spotted in Epcot? Does he know what an Epcot is? Under Iger we got a better Test Track and a Soarin that fits the park (if it's better, that's subjective). But the park really hasn't been touched under him so far. Epcot's problems right now can be laid on Eisner, as much as I liked him.

Test Track is "better"? I know a lot of folks who disagree with your opinion.

 

[MaximumEd]

Without wishing to sound like I'm bragging I pretty know what we're getting.

So, set in stone and less "fluid" now? What's your opinion? Good, bad, or a mix?

 

[Kman101]

Test Track is "better"? I know a lot of folks who disagree with your opinion.

And disagreeing is fine. That's life. It's a subjective opinion. And I meant Test Track #2 from Test Track #1. Not WOM to Test Track

 

[djdan888]

Yep.

Under Iger we got a better Test Track and a Soarin that fits the park (if it's better, that's subjective).

I beg to differ with that. We got a Tron wannabe ride and all the cool stuff like the heat and cool rooms removed. I think the argument could be made the original Test Track theming and ride were better. The whole create a car thing is boring and old.

 

[Kman101]

Without wishing to sound like I'm bragging I pretty know what we're getting.

And through your lens, it's all bad and not well done? Putting the "dislike of IPs" aside, I'm asking for the quality of what we're getting, not whether I like the IP used or not.

 

[Kman101]

I beg to differ with that. We got a Tron wannabe ride and all the cool stuff like the heat and cool rooms removed. I think the argument could be made the original Test Track theming and ride were better. The whole create a car thing is boring and old.

It's an OPINION. LOL. Man I had no idea I opened myself up to critiques. I don't like building a car. I think Tron Track is a better fit visually. I don't think it's better than WoM.

I forgot I have to explain everything fully ...

 

[marni1971]

And through your lens, it's all bad and not well done? Putting the "dislike of IPs" aside, I'm asking for the quality of what we're getting, not whether I like the IP used or not.

Some great. Some good. And one or two things are very worrying. Disregarding the use of IP. Let me add some things are still fluid.

 

[Kman101]

Some great. Some good. And one or two things are very worrying. Disregarding the use of IP.

Thanks Martin. I trust your judgement. I'm just hoping what we get is of actual quality and not more Frozen in Norway and Nemo in Seas (both deserved better and Nemo should have been better). But I have my expectations in check. Coco could be well done if it's not just new screens and nothing else.

I'd love nothing more than to have original Figment, to ride Horizons, to have WoM still there but I've sadly accepted they aren't giving us an Epcot like that anymore, and I know they are capable of it (maybe ...). I think Guardians in coaster form is a poor idea for Epcot. I think Rat is OK for France, most wouldn't object if it weren't from a movie (though it seems like the ride itself could have been done a bit better). I'm hopeful they choose something decent for the UK but if it's not something original, then I'd hope it's Poppins but that's not the 'current flavor of choice' so I have my fear it's Brave.

I think a balance of IPs and original homegrown IPs would be better but I've sadly come to accept that what we're getting is IPs. I just hope they're quality attractions. I'd have no issues if we got BH6 and Inside Out (not replacing Figment) used in a good way but that doesn't seem likely right now.

Anyway, wasn't trying to be hard on you or anything, when I said nice it was with a wink and hoping we get some quality things added.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Eisner was an epic CEO for the entire company until the late 90's.

All the things you mentioned are his early term when he was doing great for the company. He successfully made money off of small hits in the box office, he added to the park's, but you are missing two things VERY IMPORTANT.

Eisner's Hollywood Studios was rushed to compete with Universal Studios and it was a failed concept. Literally penned as a half day park. Only had what? 3 rides?

Animal Kingdom opened with 2 rides!!!! TWO!!! Kilimanjaro Safaris and Countdown to Extinction. Kali River Rapids/Asia was followed shortly, but it was a D-ticket at best with its super short length and zero thrills.

Expedition Everest is an epic ride (did I say it was epic?), but the ride has flaws


Toy Story Midway Mania is the best interactive ride ever made. It may not be a super headliner, but it is certainly an E-ticket. Something about it is just so damn fun, and that's what a theme park is all about: FUN. It was one hell of a win then and it is one hell of a win now.


Must I mention Eisner's destruction of the animation division (right before The Little Mermaid, he wanted to close it!) in the late 90's into the 2000's. His fued with Pixar that almost cost Disney their partnership. I mean he literally opened Disneyland Paris and overbuilt the resort, so of course it was going to initially fail.


He destroyed the Disney theme park name making s#%£ parks like Walt Disney Studios, the original Disney's California Adventure, and even to a lesser extent Disney's Hollywood Studios, and the original Animal Kingdom (unlike DCA just being bad everywhere this park was just severely underbuilt).


Notice that while I hate Disney's treatment of The Walt Disney World Resort, every problem that they have now was because of Eisner. Oh and yes there was a lack of investment, but we are now getting it, so stay tuned.

Did I mention that under Iger DCA has become second to worst to one of the best theme parks in the world?

Oh and that's not to mention how good Iger has been for the company TRIPLING THE STOCK, acquiring 3 of the best movie companies the world has ever known, fixing Walt Disney Animation, repairing theme parks like Disney California Adventure and soon to be many others, and the list goes on and on too.

My friends, there is a reason a man, Roy E. Disney, wanted to rid the Walt Disney Company of this man. Eisner's time was up a decade before he left, and had he left then, he would have been viewed as a CEO that made Disney so good, but in turn his last few years were disastrous.

If you want to be fair with comparisons of things done, compare the amount of E-tickets shuttered for inferior attractions, and compare the upcoming attractions (for example, Expedition Everest had nothing to do with Iger). Walt Disney World has been in a terrible state for the last 20 years, but things are changing for the better, unlike Eisner changing for the worse.
What makes it even worse is the fact that Eisner repeatedly made mistakes, whether DCA, Hong Kong, etc. There was a reason that people were flocking to Tokyo Disney SEA yet he completely ignored that reason.

If you haven't stepped through Cars Land I suggest you do. Such an epic land for what's now (surprise, because of Iger) an epic park.

Oh, and Iger's team is about to fix Mission: Space, another one of Eisner's (albeit one of his better) mistakes. But it came at a cost of Horizons. The godawful thing that is there today at Epcot? Figment? That was done by Eisner. Wonders of Life going seasonal to its death? That was Eisner. Closing 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea? That was Eisner. Mr. Toad? You guessed it. Not expanding the Monorail when it was more feasible? That was Eisner (funny to talk about but it is true).

My rant is coming to a close, so thank you for reading. Now I am not a Pixie Duster. But the bottom line is that Iger has been much better than Eisner was, and especially how he left the company.

I'm still waiting for Iger's good for WDW as CEO to start. It barely started with Pandora. Great IP acquisitions, but poor park execution thus far and we are shifting to too much IP.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Eisner was an epic CEO for the entire company until the late 90's.

All the things you mentioned are his early term when he was doing great for the company. He successfully made money off of small hits in the box office, he added to the park's, but you are missing two things VERY IMPORTANT.

Eisner's Hollywood Studios was rushed to compete with Universal Studios and it was a failed concept. Literally penned as a half day park. Only had what? 3 rides?

Animal Kingdom opened with 2 rides!!!! TWO!!! Kilimanjaro Safaris and Countdown to Extinction. Kali River Rapids/Asia was followed shortly, but it was a D-ticket at best with its super short length and zero thrills.

Expedition Everest is an epic ride (did I say it was epic?), but the ride has flaws


Toy Story Midway Mania is the best interactive ride ever made. It may not be a super headliner, but it is certainly an E-ticket. Something about it is just so damn fun, and that's what a theme park is all about: FUN. It was one hell of a win then and it is one hell of a win now.


Must I mention Eisner's destruction of the animation division (right before The Little Mermaid, he wanted to close it!) in the late 90's into the 2000's. His fued with Pixar that almost cost Disney their partnership. I mean he literally opened Disneyland Paris and overbuilt the resort, so of course it was going to initially fail.


He destroyed the Disney theme park name making s#%£ parks like Walt Disney Studios, the original Disney's California Adventure, and even to a lesser extent Disney's Hollywood Studios, and the original Animal Kingdom (unlike DCA just being bad everywhere this park was just severely underbuilt).


Notice that while I hate Disney's treatment of The Walt Disney World Resort, every problem that they have now was because of Eisner. Oh and yes there was a lack of investment, but we are now getting it, so stay tuned.

Did I mention that under Iger DCA has become second to worst to one of the best theme parks in the world?

Oh and that's not to mention how good Iger has been for the company TRIPLING THE STOCK, acquiring 3 of the best movie companies the world has ever known, fixing Walt Disney Animation, repairing theme parks like Disney California Adventure and soon to be many others, and the list goes on and on too.

My friends, there is a reason a man, Roy E. Disney, wanted to rid the Walt Disney Company of this man. Eisner's time was up a decade before he left, and had he left then, he would have been viewed as a CEO that made Disney so good, but in turn his last few years were disastrous.

If you want to be fair with comparisons of things done, compare the amount of E-tickets shuttered for inferior attractions, and compare the upcoming attractions (for example, Expedition Everest had nothing to do with Iger). Walt Disney World has been in a terrible state for the last 20 years, but things are changing for the better, unlike Eisner changing for the worse.
What makes it even worse is the fact that Eisner repeatedly made mistakes, whether DCA, Hong Kong, etc. There was a reason that people were flocking to Tokyo Disney SEA yet he completely ignored that reason.

If you haven't stepped through Cars Land I suggest you do. Such an epic land for what's now (surprise, because of Iger) an epic park.

Oh, and Iger's team is about to fix Mission: Space, another one of Eisner's (albeit one of his better) mistakes. But it came at a cost of Horizons. The godawful thing that is there today at Epcot? Figment? That was done by Eisner. Wonders of Life going seasonal to its death? That was Eisner. Closing 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea? That was Eisner. Mr. Toad? You guessed it. Not expanding the Monorail when it was more feasible? That was Eisner (funny to talk about but it is true).

My rant is coming to a close, so thank you for reading. Now I am not a Pixie Duster. But the bottom line is that Iger has been much better than Eisner was, and especially how he left the company.

Also, I think your dismissal of AK and DHS as failures because they didn't open perfectly is shortsighted. AK is one of the most detailed parks ever built and maybe now the best park at WDW. Eisner got it BUILT. I mentioned Eisner was responsible for adding ToT, RnR, and Everest to those parks after opening and at least he BUILT them. I was only talking WDW, but DCA clearly was fixed by Iger....but again, Iger doesn't build anything. He doesn't even try because he'd rather save money and/or not stick his neck out.

 

[larryz]

Some great. Some good. And one or two things are very worrying. Disregarding the use of IP. Let me add some things are still fluid.

Your Tribute to Horizons starkly contrasts the time, effort and money Disney used to spend on attractions with the "efforts" expended today. And it's sad. But I don't mind IPs in Epcot as long as they're integrated in thoughtful and appropriate ways.

 

[Phineas]

View attachment 213646 I like it better in it's current state.....bring back Horizons!! Lol

This is the exact Mission: Space experience I've had every trip since it opened; this is the only ride to ever make me as ill as I was after riding. (though Body Wars made 5 year old me pretty queasy too.) I'm perfectly content admiring the exterior, internally mourning Horizons, and moving on with my day.

 

[Ralphlaw]

Eisner was an epic CEO for the entire company until the late 90's.

All the things you mentioned are his early term when he was doing great for the company. He successfully made money off of small hits in the box office, he added to the park's, but you are missing two things VERY IMPORTANT.

Eisner's Hollywood Studios was rushed to compete with Universal Studios and it was a failed concept. Literally penned as a half day park. Only had what? 3 rides?

Animal Kingdom opened with 2 rides!!!! TWO!!! Kilimanjaro Safaris and Countdown to Extinction. Kali River Rapids/Asia was followed shortly, but it was a D-ticket at best with its super short length and zero thrills.

Expedition Everest is an epic ride (did I say it was epic?), but the ride has flaws


Toy Story Midway Mania is the best interactive ride ever made. It may not be a super headliner, but it is certainly an E-ticket. Something about it is just so damn fun, and that's what a theme park is all about: FUN. It was one hell of a win then and it is one hell of a win now.


Must I mention Eisner's destruction of the animation division (right before The Little Mermaid, he wanted to close it!) in the late 90's into the 2000's. His fued with Pixar that almost cost Disney their partnership. I mean he literally opened Disneyland Paris and overbuilt the resort, so of course it was going to initially fail.


He destroyed the Disney theme park name making s#%£ parks like Walt Disney Studios, the original Disney's California Adventure, and even to a lesser extent Disney's Hollywood Studios, and the original Animal Kingdom (unlike DCA just being bad everywhere this park was just severely underbuilt).


Notice that while I hate Disney's treatment of The Walt Disney World Resort, every problem that they have now was because of Eisner. Oh and yes there was a lack of investment, but we are now getting it, so stay tuned.

Did I mention that under Iger DCA has become second to worst to one of the best theme parks in the world?

Oh and that's not to mention how good Iger has been for the company TRIPLING THE STOCK, acquiring 3 of the best movie companies the world has ever known, fixing Walt Disney Animation, repairing theme parks like Disney California Adventure and soon to be many others, and the list goes on and on too.

My friends, there is a reason a man, Roy E. Disney, wanted to rid the Walt Disney Company of this man. Eisner's time was up a decade before he left, and had he left then, he would have been viewed as a CEO that made Disney so good, but in turn his last few years were disastrous.

If you want to be fair with comparisons of things done, compare the amount of E-tickets shuttered for inferior attractions, and compare the upcoming attractions (for example, Expedition Everest had nothing to do with Iger). Walt Disney World has been in a terrible state for the last 20 years, but things are changing for the better, unlike Eisner changing for the worse.
What makes it even worse is the fact that Eisner repeatedly made mistakes, whether DCA, Hong Kong, etc. There was a reason that people were flocking to Tokyo Disney SEA yet he completely ignored that reason.

If you haven't stepped through Cars Land I suggest you do. Such an epic land for what's now (surprise, because of Iger) an epic park.

Oh, and Iger's team is about to fix Mission: Space, another one of Eisner's (albeit one of his better) mistakes. But it came at a cost of Horizons. The godawful thing that is there today at Epcot? Figment? That was done by Eisner. Wonders of Life going seasonal to its death? That was Eisner. Closing 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea? That was Eisner. Mr. Toad? You guessed it. Not expanding the Monorail when it was more feasible? That was Eisner (funny to talk about but it is true).

My rant is coming to a close, so thank you for reading. Now I am not a Pixie Duster. But the bottom line is that Iger has been much better than Eisner was, and especially how he left the company.

Thank you for thoughtful, detailed and long explanation of your analysis. I know what it takes to write an informative and well-thought post. I wouldn't be surprised if it took you more than half an hour to put that together. Whether readers agree with it or not, I wish more posts on these boards would reach this high level of competence.

 

[Ralphlaw]

Also, I think your dismissal of AK and DHS as failures because they didn't open perfectly is shortsighted. AK is one of the most detailed parks ever built and maybe now the best park at WDW. Eisner got it BUILT. I mentioned Eisner was responsible for adding ToT, RnR, and Everest to those parks after opening and at least he BUILT them. I was only talking WDW, but DCA clearly was fixed by Iger....but again, Iger doesn't build anything. He doesn't even try because he'd rather save money and/or not stick his neck out.

It indeed must be recalled that DL was an absolute disaster on its opening day. Much of the infrastructure didn't work, most of the great attractions were not open or were not even built yet, and Tomorrowland was apparently a sign with nothing behind it. Then, they added and tweaked until it became great.

Studios and Animal Kingdom were slapped together relatively quickly for what they were and perhaps opened a bit prematurely. Although beautiful and complete parks on opening day would be nice, that cannot always be expected. At least they opened, going from drawing board to grand opening within a reasonable time. By comparison, Pandora went from idea to committee to drawing board to another committee to another drawing board, etc . . . for years and years. Eisner, to his credit, went "ready, fire, aim" on some great infrastructure in DHS and AK and the hotels that didn't get bogged down for years in ad nauseum planning. Build something acceptable, and then start your add ons. Not a bad way to build a company, and at least there was major excitement on a frequent basis back then.

Iger is doing great things, and is doing them responsibly. Do I wish he would stick his neck out and open a 5th park at WDW? Of course, but upgrading the 4 existing parks is not at all a bad (or easy) thing to do either. Do I also wish that the new things went from concept to grand opening more quickly? Of course, but let's hope that care and thought will help avert disco-yeti-like disasters in the stuff that opens under his watch.

 

[misterID]

Eisner was an epic CEO for the entire company until the late 90's.

All the things you mentioned are his early term when he was doing great for the company. He successfully made money off of small hits in the box office, he added to the park's, but you are missing two things VERY IMPORTANT.

Eisner's Hollywood Studios was rushed to compete with Universal Studios and it was a failed concept. Literally penned as a half day park. Only had what? 3 rides?

Animal Kingdom opened with 2 rides!!!! TWO!!! Kilimanjaro Safaris and Countdown to Extinction. Kali River Rapids/Asia was followed shortly, but it was a D-ticket at best with its super short length and zero thrills.

Expedition Everest is an epic ride (did I say it was epic?), but the ride has flaws


Toy Story Midway Mania is the best interactive ride ever made. It may not be a super headliner, but it is certainly an E-ticket. Something about it is just so damn fun, and that's what a theme park is all about: FUN. It was one hell of a win then and it is one hell of a win now.


Must I mention Eisner's destruction of the animation division (right before The Little Mermaid, he wanted to close it!) in the late 90's into the 2000's. His fued with Pixar that almost cost Disney their partnership. I mean he literally opened Disneyland Paris and overbuilt the resort, so of course it was going to initially fail.


He destroyed the Disney theme park name making s#%£ parks like Walt Disney Studios, the original Disney's California Adventure, and even to a lesser extent Disney's Hollywood Studios, and the original Animal Kingdom (unlike DCA just being bad everywhere this park was just severely underbuilt).


Notice that while I hate Disney's treatment of The Walt Disney World Resort, every problem that they have now was because of Eisner. Oh and yes there was a lack of investment, but we are now getting it, so stay tuned.

Did I mention that under Iger DCA has become second to worst to one of the best theme parks in the world?

Oh and that's not to mention how good Iger has been for the company TRIPLING THE STOCK, acquiring 3 of the best movie companies the world has ever known, fixing Walt Disney Animation, repairing theme parks like Disney California Adventure and soon to be many others, and the list goes on and on too.

My friends, there is a reason a man, Roy E. Disney, wanted to rid the Walt Disney Company of this man. Eisner's time was up a decade before he left, and had he left then, he would have been viewed as a CEO that made Disney so good, but in turn his last few years were disastrous.

If you want to be fair with comparisons of things done, compare the amount of E-tickets shuttered for inferior attractions, and compare the upcoming attractions (for example, Expedition Everest had nothing to do with Iger). Walt Disney World has been in a terrible state for the last 20 years, but things are changing for the better, unlike Eisner changing for the worse.
What makes it even worse is the fact that Eisner repeatedly made mistakes, whether DCA, Hong Kong, etc. There was a reason that people were flocking to Tokyo Disney SEA yet he completely ignored that reason.

If you haven't stepped through Cars Land I suggest you do. Such an epic land for what's now (surprise, because of Iger) an epic park.

Oh, and Iger's team is about to fix Mission: Space, another one of Eisner's (albeit one of his better) mistakes. But it came at a cost of Horizons. The godawful thing that is there today at Epcot? Figment? That was done by Eisner. Wonders of Life going seasonal to its death? That was Eisner. Closing 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea? That was Eisner. Mr. Toad? You guessed it. Not expanding the Monorail when it was more feasible? That was Eisner (funny to talk about but it is true).

My rant is coming to a close, so thank you for reading. Now I am not a Pixie Duster. But the bottom line is that Iger has been much better than Eisner was, and especially how he left the company.

To be completely fair, Eisner suffered some health issues during that period of the 90s that affects your personality and decision making, as heart issues typically do, especially after a heart attack. The timeline with his bad decisions and health issues do coincide with each other. I have a pretty good insight about Eisner as my dad and he had a pretty volatile business situation back in the 90s, so I'm not a revisionist Pixie Duster

But I do firmly believe he loved the parks, though. And was far more ambitious than Iger. Euro Disney was a big disaster and really changed the way he conducted business in his latter Disney career. Had it not been for that park we'd be looking at Eisner completely differently as the parks would have grown greatly in the Disney Decade, IMO.