Mickey's New 'Old' Image ...

[EPCOT Explorer]

Won't make this long but here goes....


yes, I get Disney is all about storytelling... but to a certain point. They never really should ever come near that invisible line of offending anyone. It'd be dumb for them to do that. Just because us fans know Disney used to cross the line, with today's standards and not yesterday's, doesn't mean they should bring it all back. It's not present for a reason.

And now back to Mickey,

Mickey was changed because of complaints of parents. Mickey was like a role model to children. He may have been mostly a nice and caring character, but he did have a not-so-role model like personality. That stemmed into Donald Duck. Donald Duck is the most drastic change for Mickey though over the years. And just so everyone knows, I got this information from Donald chronological part 1. I know many probably own this DVD and it seems pretty accurate coming straight from Disney.

And by Disney history repeating itself I mean: this game gets released-> Mickey may not be the role model he once was-> moms complain-> he gets reverted back. Pretty simple.

And to MarkTwain, if you ask the average WDW park goer I bet they don't know half the character's stories their taking pictures with. Do you really think they know about Mickey's history? Or who/what a Koda is? Or why Goodfello hangs out with Gideon? Or even what a Gideon is? :lol:




I hope this was a joke. I really do.

I respect everyone here, including EE ... but evidently he may not since he agreed with this.

I actually took an opposing side to this argument because I disagreed with it. USUALLY, that's why people take to certain sides of arguments...

....shocking....

CaptainMichael, are you just trying to create drama in this thread for no apparent reason? And I'm the troll? Please.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And this is sorta off the topic I was on, but on this thread's topic.

I saw Epic Mickey when the concept art was first released. I admit I was in AWE. But then more, and more, and more concept art got released and my awe started to fade. I find it all sort of... odd. I don't think this is really what Walt, yes him... I'm bringing him in this..., would of wanted this. I usually rag on people who type "Walt wouldn't want this", but I really have a gut feeling this would be a total disaster to him. He created these "forgotten characters" to be loved and taken in. Making them into death machines like the Snow White's Dwarfs spider-thingy is a bit much. I'll probably still check out the game- but I really think it's going to flop with the family audience.

For the record, I only agreed with the "jt04" comment becuase you were treating opinion as fact. :wave:

Here we go:

I feel that invisible line is needed in a good story. That's duality for you....It's just a fact of life. No one can be sheltered forever, and someone WILL be offended. They'll be in the minority. Hopefully. Probably. Disney should not strive to appeal to EVERYONE in that demograhic...it only leads to a generic product, such as we have seen.


Complaints to parents?! Never read, heard, watched or researched anything of the kind. Seriously doubt that, but I would like to see some proof, if any. That sounds absurd.

Now Donald taking on the character of Mickey, I beleive. :lol:


As for your reversion theory...Times have changed. If put out to the RIGHT demographic...It'll be accepted and be a success. I think it will be.


And on that note, the last bolded comment...Then don't push it on them. Simple. Not everything TWDC does has to be for about and made for a family. It;s high time they got back to their roots and expanded their products and market share OUT.

 

[_Scar]

For the record, I only agreed with the "jt04" comment becuase you were treating opinion as fact. :wave:

Here we go:

I feel that invisible line is needed in a good story. That's duality for you....It's just a fact of life. No one can be sheltered forever, and someone WILL be offended. They'll be in the minority. Hopefully. Probably. Disney should not strive to appeal to EVERYONE in that demograhic...it only leads to a generic product, such as we have seen.


Complaints to parents?! Never read, heard, watched or researched anything of the kind. Seriously doubt that, but I would like to see some proof, if any. That sounds absurd.

Now Donald taking on the character of Mickey, I beleive. :lol:


As for your reversion theory...Times have changed. If put out to the RIGHT demographic...It'll be accepted and be a success. I think it will be.


And on that note, the last bolded comment...Then don't push it on them. Simple. Not everything TWDC does has to be for about and made for a family. It;s high time they got back to their roots and expanded their products and market share OUT.

Sorry if I ever wrote posts that way. I usually hate when people do that too. Don't blame you there.

But I don't think Disney would be the right company to present that line and to cross it at the same time, y'know? Disney should always be princess fairy tales and epic adventures. Like that company that you know would never cross that line.

Leonard Moltin said it on the Donald DVD. :shrug: Take it up with him! :lol:
Kinda makes sense though.

But games like GTA and Call of Duty aren't necesarily targetted at kids, but they do play them. They're probably their number one customer. :lol:

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Sorry if I ever wrote posts that way. I usually hate when people do that too. Don't blame you there.

But I don't think Disney would be the right company to present that line and to cross it at the same time, y'know? Disney should always be princess fairy tales and epic adventures. Like that company that you know would never cross that line.

Leonard Moltin said it on the Donald DVD. :shrug: Take it up with him! :lol:
Kinda makes sense though.

But games like GTA and Call of Duty aren't necesarily targetted at kids, but they do play them. They're probably their number one customer. :lol:

Can't disagree with you more. Disney DID push that line. They WERE revolutionary. They were great. They can and should do that again.


Leonard Moltin, ey....? :fork::fork::lookaroun:lol: I'm kinda doubtful, but I'll see.


The kid thing is out of Disney's control then.:shrug: Shouldn;t be their problem anyway.

 

[WDWGoof07]

I certainly don't think I'm reading to much into this at all. I also never imagined that they would create an evil Mickey. Maybe I should have started my post off with satire follows.

I just don't see how reverting back to Mickey's old image is going to revitalize something that has already become a world wide icon. I said I could be wrong. I also said I was interested in seeing the final product. I'm not saying anybody is right or wrong with what they think about this. All I'm saying is, personally I don't see taking the risk in hopes they might possibly gain some amount of rewards at sometime in the future. Most folks didn't grow up with early Mickey. You have several generations that only know the Mickey of today. It has a real chance of damaging the image of an icon that has been cultivated over time.

The final product might be fantastic. I might absolutely love the changes. I'm just saying I don't understand Disney doing it. They seem to be trying to turn the MK into a kiddies park where the only people going there will be people with small children. So do you see my confusion with this move.

Oh sorry. I knew you didn't think that. I just didn't do a very good job of addressing another post. Sorry for the confusion.

I think returning Mickey to his roots can only be positive. It will broaden his appeal. Right now, Mickey mainly appeals to young children. He's a character you can outgrow. The changes will make him more timeless, as he once was. Every incarnation of Mickey has personified innocence, if I'm understanding your concern correctly. The most popular cartoons of Disney's 1930's rival Fleischer Studios, Betty Boop and Popeye, were (relatively) risque, which is what Walt didn't want. Mickey Mouse has always been a lovable character, and that is the quality that has kept him relevant. The changes shouldn't affect that. It will just make Mickey funny and lovable at the same time. Older crowds will appreciate a mischievous Mickey, but fans of the current Mickey won't be left high and dry. In fact, fans of the current change will like Mickey more.

Keep in mind, this is only if Disney does it right, but, given the influence Lasseter has in animation, I think they will. And you'll like the result, I know it .

 

[WDW1974]

More ... from the NY Times ... and on the broader implications ... as I suggested, this is about more than a video game. This is about a makeover of Mickey (much like DCA) only largely just giving him back the edge, the personality and the depth that has been sucked out of him as he became a symbol of a media empire and not simply a character dedicated to fun.

Kudos to Disney ... and I am not a gamer at all, but this could get my money.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/business/media/05mickey.html?_r=1

 

[Boardwalk Joe's]

Funny this is all coming up, I just watched "The hand behind the mouse: The Ub Iwerks Story" last night and I think it would do good for a few people here to watch it too...

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Oh sorry. I knew you didn't think that. I just didn't do a very good job of addressing another post. Sorry for the confusion.

I think returning Mickey to his roots can only be positive. It will broaden his appeal. Right now, Mickey mainly appeals to young children. He's a character you can outgrow. The changes will make him more timeless, as he once was. Every incarnation of Mickey has personified innocence, if I'm understanding your concern correctly. The most popular cartoons of Disney's 1930's rival Fleischer Studios, Betty Boop and Popeye, were (relatively) risque, which is what Walt didn't want. Mickey Mouse has always been a lovable character, and that is the quality that has kept him relevant. The changes shouldn't affect that. It will just make Mickey funny and lovable at the same time. Older crowds will appreciate a mischievous Mickey, but fans of the current Mickey won't be left high and dry. In fact, fans of the current change will like Mickey more.

Keep in mind, this is only if Disney does it right, but, given the influence Lasseter has in animation, I think they will. And you'll like the result, I know it .

Differentiated markets. Love it. They should do this in the parks too.


Here's looking at you, EPCOT...

Funny this is all coming up, I just watched "The hand behind the mouse: The Ub Iwerks Story" last night and I think it would do good for a few people here to watch it too...

Great program, and I know exactly what you are talking about.

More ... from the NY Times ... and on the broader implications ... as I suggested, this is about more than a video game. This is about a makeover of Mickey (much like DCA) only largely just giving him back the edge, the personality and the depth that has been sucked out of him as he became a symbol of a media empire and not simply a character dedicated to fun.

Kudos to Disney ... and I am not a gamer at all, but this could get my money.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/business/media/05mickey.html?_r=1

Good article....but did they just copy and paste all our posts together!? :lol:


And yep, I might invest in a Wii, now. This looks quite good.

 

[CBOMB]

All things said and done, I doubt this little makeover will touch anything outside of Mickey's portrayal in one videogame. How many meet n greets are there currently with King Mickey and his Keyblade?

You may very well be right, but let me quote from the article in the New York Times.

"The first glimmer of this will be the introduction next year of a new video game, Epic Mickey, in which the formerly squeaky clean character can be cantankerous and cunning, as well as heroic, as he traverses a forbidding wasteland.
And at the same time, in a parallel but separate effort, Disney has quietly embarked on an even larger project to rethink the character’s personality, from the way Mickey walks and talks to the way he appears on the Disney Channel and how children interact with him on the Web — even what his house looks like at Disney World."

Kind of sounds like more than a video game to me.

I don't generally wear theme park wear, but one of my favorite items is an 'Angry Mickey' tee that I picked up about five years ago at a Nordstrom Rack in California. It's nice to see The Mouse showing emotion. That IS why people fell in love with the little rodent to begin with.

It fits your personality so well too!

Frankly, those folks (while entitled to their opinions under the Constitution -- that is unless the Patriot Act says otherwise) are nuts. What has happened to common sense and intelligence?

These folks are the crazy minority that speaks loud (and will likely gain outlets for their misguided -- at best -- views ... just watch as FOX News does a piece on EVIL, VIOLENT, SATAN-WORSHIPPING Mickey! ... It's coming!)

We really don't know if they are a minority , now do we. Besides we all know what a few people say matters very little. When it comes to the Mouse all that matters is green, and I don't mean that in an enviormentally correct way.

It's not odd that there are no facts to support his stance?

If it is a commentary/opinion piece, then why are we treating it as news?

So we'll have something to argue about Jake.

Oh sorry. I knew you didn't think that. I just didn't do a very good job of addressing another post. Sorry for the confusion.

I think returning Mickey to his roots can only be positive. It will broaden his appeal. Right now, Mickey mainly appeals to young children. He's a character you can outgrow. The changes will make him more timeless, as he once was. Every incarnation of Mickey has personified innocence, if I'm understanding your concern correctly. The most popular cartoons of Disney's 1930's rival Fleischer Studios, Betty Boop and Popeye, were (relatively) risque, which is what Walt didn't want. Mickey Mouse has always been a lovable character, and that is the quality that has kept him relevant. The changes shouldn't affect that. It will just make Mickey funny and lovable at the same time. Older crowds will appreciate a mischievous Mickey, but fans of the current Mickey won't be left high and dry. In fact, fans of the current change will like Mickey more.

Keep in mind, this is only if Disney does it right, but, given the influence Lasseter has in animation, I think they will. And you'll like the result, I know it .

It's always about Disney doing it right. I just didn't want you to think I was oppose to this product because of some fanatic like devotion to the image of the Mouse. I just think it's a bad move from a business stand point, that's all. Let me quote from the New York Times again.

" Disney is taking the risky step of re-imagining him for the future."

"“There’s a distinct risk of alienating your core consumer when you tweak a sacred character, but at this point it’s a risk they have to take,” said Matt Britton, the managing partner of Mr. Youth, a New York brand consultant firm."

That's all I've been saying all along.

 

[jakeman]

So we'll have something to argue about Jake.

So we are just going to make up something to argue about?

What's the point in that? :lol:

Despite the articles, I'm afraid that video games do not have enough market penetration to matter.

I don't really see any Kingdom Hearts characters floating around, even at their prime.

 

[Testtrack321]

Just thought I'd post this ... I think it's an interesting read for Disney fans and I support what Disney is doing here.

They've blanded Mickey, a great character, down to being a corporate logo when he's so much more. And this looks like a first move back in the right direction ... even if it scares the white-bread stroller brigade.


http://www.walletpop.com/blog/2009/...g/2009/11/05/mickey-mouse-gets-his-edge-back/

Hey, we finally agree on something!

 

[Duckberg]

ok?

You may very well be right, but let me quote from the article in the New York Times.

"The first glimmer of this will be the introduction next year of a new video game, Epic Mickey, in which the formerly squeaky clean character can be cantankerous and cunning, as well as heroic, as he traverses a forbidding wasteland.
And at the same time, in a parallel but separate effort, Disney has quietly embarked on an even larger project to rethink the character’s personality, from the way Mickey walks and talks to the way he appears on the Disney Channel and how children interact with him on the Web — even what his house looks like at Disney World."

Kind of sounds like more than a video game to me.

It fits your personality so well too!


We really don't know if they are a minority , now do we. Besides we all know what a few people say matters very little. When it comes to the Mouse all that matters is green, and I don't mean that in an enviormentally correct way.

So we'll have something to argue about Jake.

It's always about Disney doing it right. I just didn't want you to think I was oppose to this product because of some fanatic like devotion to the image of the Mouse. I just think it's a bad move from a business stand point, that's all. Let me quote from the New York Times again.

" Disney is taking the risky step of re-imagining him for the future."

"“There’s a distinct risk of alienating your core consumer when you tweak a sacred character, but at this point it’s a risk they have to take,” said Matt Britton, the managing partner of Mr. Youth, a New York brand consultant firm."

That's all I've been saying all along.

Maybe Duckberg

 

[MarkTwain]

So we are just going to make up something to argue about?

What's the point in that? :lol:

Despite the articles, I'm afraid that video games do not have enough market penetration to matter.

I don't really see any Kingdom Hearts characters floating around, even at their prime.

I've wondered about that...

As others have hinted at, I suspect (and hope) that this video game is only part of a larger plan to reintroduce Mickey as a character into the public consciousness. A year or so ago, I was hearing rumblings around the 'net that Disney was wanting to do just that. Check out this article from Blue Sky Disney and this article from the Disney Blog from a while ago. Perhaps Epic Mickey, considering video games' relatively quick production time, is the first fruit of this idea.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

I've wondered about that...

As others have hinted at, I suspect (and hope) that this video game is only part of a larger plan to reintroduce Mickey as a character into the public consciousness. A year or so ago, I was hearing rumblings around the 'net that Disney was wanting to do just that. Check out this article from Blue Sky Disney and this article from the Disney Blog from a while ago. Perhaps Epic Mickey, considering video games' relatively quick production time, is the first fruit of this idea.

It's been rumbling muuuch longer than that...I think since Iger took over.

Maybe this is all The Weatherman's idea?:lookaroun:lol:

 

[MarkTwain]

^ I had edited my last post because I didn't think anyone would respond that quickly, so I'll just put what I added in this new post:

From BlueSkyDisney:

There was a get-together over in the Valley. A sort of meeting like the Brain Trust at Pixar has, or the Story Trust at Disney has been having. But being as Suits are "persona non grata" with John in charge there was simply a gathering of animators, story people and such. The focus was on the reemergence of Disney's most famous creation...

Mickey Mouse.

There was a brainstorming as to how can he become more relevant. How can he be brought back into the consciousness of a 21st Century America and even a 21st Century world? What format would be best to present him in? Where should the largest amount of energy be spent on doing this(Shorts, Movies, the Web, etc.)?

From the Disney Blog:

Now this NY Times article hints that another shift is coming. Whether it’s just an evolution in wardrobe, as in the later stages of that postcard, or a serious makeover remains to be seen. But I think we’ve already seen some hints and the new Mickey Mouse animated short/featurette that Disney is rumored to be working on will reveal even more.

“I love classic Mickey, but he needs to evolve to be relevant to new generations of kids,” Robert A. Iger, Disney’s chief executive, said in an interview.

Even if Epic Mickey is the only real product of this plan, at least then Mickey will have a medium for every demographic:
Mickey Mouse Clubhouse for young kids, Epic Mickey for older kids and teens, and us grown-ups can pop in our Walt Disney Treasures DVDs for the 100th time. :lol:

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

^ I had edited my last post because I didn't think anyone would respond that quickly, so I'll just put what I added in this new post:





Even if Epic Mickey is the only real product of this plan, at least then Mickey will have a medium for every demographic:
Mickey Mouse Clubhouse for young kids, Epic Mickey for older kids and teens, and us grown-ups can pop in our Walt Disney Treasures DVDs for the 100th time. :lol:

Exactly! Opening the demographic can only be a good thing.


And.....Iger is in that last interview DIRECTLY. Highly interesting.

 

[sublimesting]

.




In the beginning, yes. But there were complaints about his behavior which sparked the creation of the fab 5 we know today. They're all a little of Mickey's personality we used to see.[/QUOTE]


Right. In the 50's Mickey became the straight man to the other Fab 5. Donald and Goofy eclipsed him in popularity at this point. Walt felt alot of Mickey's earlier hi-jinks were innapropriate such as using farm animals as musical instruments in Steam Boat Willie.

I do want Mickey to be a character though and not just a corporate logo or character appreciated by 5 year olds. BUt this has to be done just so. I also would HATE Mickey to be like a cocky, no-it all teen using the interweb and texting just to appeal to todays kids. i think Disney needs a new Fab 5 movie with an skightly ornery and adventurous mickey leading the gang on an adventure.

 

[HDS]

 

[tirian]

NICE.

Great find!

 

[tirian]

Variety is covering Epic Mickey

Variety is covering Epic Mickey, emphasizing how "Mickey wasn't always boring" in the past.

Part 1:
http://weblogs.variety.com/the_cut_...t-epic-mickey-part-one.html?query=epic+mickey

Part 2:
http://weblogs.variety.com/the_cut_scene/2009/11/behind-the-scenes-at-epic-mickey-part-two.html

Part 3:
http://weblogs.variety.com/the_cut_scene/2009/11/behind-the-scenes-at-epic-mickey-part-three.html

 

[tirian]

Here's a quote from Part 3:

“It happens to every cartoon character,” he says. “They all begin as dangerous, mischievous things, then they start to settle down and become more realistic – and the way they’re drawn becomes more realistic. Eventually, they move into a nice suburban home and get some nephews who are unexplained. Then someone comes along and reminds them that they’re this anarchist thing and the cycle begins again.”

What Mickey had that held that off for a while was Walt Disney. The company founder loved his creation and viewed Mickey as his alter ego. That kept the changes minute enough that Mickey was able to establish a lasting identity.

Nobody is suggesting Mickey should be evil or violent; people just want him to regain a personality. The classic Mickey of the 1930s-40s cartoons wasn't rebellious like the early Mickey, but he still had more character than he does in "Mickey Mouse Clubhouse."